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Author Topic:   c.1985 Combined Sidelight Lamp

inlandwhaler posted 01-25-2009 12:33 PM ET (US)
I would like to know if the original combined sidelights lamp on the c.1985 13- and 15-footers had a vertical chrome metal separation between the red and green portions of the glass or not. I’ve seen it both ways and would like to know which is original.
jimh posted 01-25-2009 01:04 PM ET (US)
Technical details of vessel lighting are given in the Technical Annex to the Navigation Rules. The requirements for a combined lamp used for sidelights to obscure the light in the off direction are explicitly mentioned in
5. Screens for sidelights
"With a combined lantern, using a single vertical filament and a very narrow division between the green and red sections, external screens need not be fitted."
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/NavRules/annexes/annex_1Intl.htm#5
9. Horizontal sectors
"In the forward direction, sidelights as fitted on the vessel shall show the minimum required intensities. The intensities shall decrease to reach practical cut-off between 1 degree and 3 degrees outside the prescribed sectors."
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/NavRules/annexes/annex_1Intl.htm#9
Tom W Clark posted 01-25-2009 02:01 PM ET (US)
The cast bronze bow lights on the small Whalers in the 1980s had a portion of the casting dividing the red and green fields.
During this same period Whaler also used an off-the-shelf Perko stamped stainless steel bow light as a substitute at times. This light has no chrome metal separation between the red and the green portions.
It is also very possible a light on a small Whaler is an aftermarket replacement of the OE light.
Do you have a photo of a bow light you are wondering about?
inlandwhaler posted 01-25-2009 02:20 PM ET (US)
Tom, Thanks for the info. That answers my question. I don’t have pictures, but Specialty Marine offers a stainless steel knock off on Ebay that has the chrome separation and from time to time I see the Perko style without the separation. Were any Whalers shipped new from the factory with the Perko style without the separation or were they strictly used as replacement parts?
Tom W Clark posted 01-25-2009 02:27 PM ET (US)
The factory has used a number of different lights over the years, some with, and some without, the separation.
The cast bronze light we are all so familiar with was also made in several slight variations. It is not easy to classify and date these lights.
Added to all that confusion is the fact there are now a couple good (but not perfect) reproductions on the market as well.
For views of off-the-shelf bow lights that Whaler used at the factory see the photos on page 18 of the 1974 Boston Whaler catalog and page 19 of the 1985 Options and Replacement Parts catalog.
inlandwhaler posted 01-25-2009 02:43 PM ET (US)
Thanks, I'll take a look at the catalogs. I don't very often see the cast bronze originals anymore and when I do see them they're really expensive. I have one of the cast bronze with the seperation that is probably original. While it's cold and I can't go boating this winter I'm going to have it rechromed.
elaelap posted 01-25-2009 02:44 PM ET (US)
If you don't happen to have the 1974 and 1985 BW catalogs sitting around, Tom's too shy to say it--and must have missed marketing class in college--but you can view them and much, much more in his amazing 2-CD collection, 'The Boston Whaler Catalog Collection.' For more info and to order:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/index.htm
Tuco
inlandwhaler posted 01-25-2009 03:18 PM ET (US)
I just spent about 10 seconds looking through my huge collection of BW catalogs and wouldn’t you know it, those 2 seem to be missing. Tom must have really put a lot of hours into producing his CD’s! Looks like they would bring back a lot of memories of the early Whalers for those of us that are old enough to remember when they first came out.
Tom W Clark posted 01-25-2009 05:38 PM ET (US)
Try page 27 of the 1987 Options and Replacement Parts catalog.
jimh posted 01-25-2009 09:44 PM ET (US)
A little browsing through just a portion of the CETACEA collection turned up several photographs that show the combined sidelight lamp in close-up:
A combined sidelight lamp c.1970:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage74.html#74-02
The current retro-style lamp seen on many models:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage71.html#71-02
A combined sidelight lamp c.1971. This appears to have a divider screen between the red and green lenses:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage57.html#57-01
An interesting combined sidelight lamp, v.1962. There is no guarantee it was OEM:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage56.html#56-08
Another combined sidelight lamp with divider screen, c.1968. I believe this one is an OEM original:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage53.html#53-02
elaelap posted 01-25-2009 09:55 PM ET (US)
OE?
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/elaelap/CetusSantaCruzapts055.jpg
Tuco
That's my daughter Katie christening 'Cetus' 15 CC, BTW.
crabby posted 01-26-2009 07:24 PM ET (US)
My 1985 Montauk which I have owned since August 1985 has the Perko style bowlamp (lightweight stainless steel with no divider between sectors). Granted I am the second owner of this hull but it was factory stock when I purchased it and I have no reason to believe the bow running light was refitted before I took ownership.
Tom W Clark posted 01-26-2009 07:39 PM ET (US)
Tony,
It's hard to say. It looks like OE but I think it is not. I suspect it is a solid stainless steel reproduction.
Those reproductions do not fit around the three piece Barbour rub rail quite as nicely as the originals.
jeffs22outrage posted 01-26-2009 07:55 PM ET (US)
So what about this one? This is off my 1975 13 I just got and it seems to be the same vintage as the boat. The boat seems to be all original and it still has the OEM stern light so I am assuming the light is OEM. The bow chock light was an option back in the day correct?
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ K-tV7xLi6LeI0yZ_k7P4Ng?authkey=aOoT2ZZ1K_4&feat=directlink
Tom W Clark posted 01-26-2009 08:00 PM ET (US)
Jeff,
Yes, I believe that is the original equipment light. It is the same light shown on page 18 of the 1974 Whaler catalog.
I would like to know who made it. Have you had it apart to look for Logos or part numbers? It looks like some old Attwood lights but it could also be a Wilcox-Crittenden design.
Is it chrome plated zinc? or Marinium? or?
The bow chock was *always* an option on the 13s. The navigation lights were mostly an option but came standard on some models of 13 footers.
jeffs22outrage posted 01-26-2009 08:26 PM ET (US)
Tom,
The part feels like it is chromed ZINC and there is no manufacture's name anywhere on the part. There is only one part number embossed in it and it reads #2700.
So, here is a another one this is a the light of our 1984 Montauk. If you notice the chock and uprights seem to be OEM however, the light housing is a standard Perko. We bought the boat in 1995 from the second owner and he had it since 1988-89. He claimed it came that way and did not think the first owner ever changed it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/dads%20whaler/ IMGP2268.jpg?t=1233019524
Tom W Clark posted 01-26-2009 08:32 PM ET (US)
Yes, that is the off-the-shelf Perko #972 light (chrome plated stamped brass, not stainless steel) that Whaler used on some boat in the mid 1980s.
It is shown in the Whaler parts catalogs and is the same as what crabby describes.

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Author	Topic: c.1985 Combined Sidelight Lamp
inlandwhaler	posted 01-25-2009 12:33 PM ET (US) I would like to know if the original combined sidelights lamp on the c.1985 13- and 15-footers had a vertical chrome metal separation between the red and green portions of the glass or not. I’ve seen it both ways and would like to know which is original.
jimh	posted 01-25-2009 01:04 PM ET (US) Technical details of vessel lighting are given in the Technical Annex to the Navigation Rules. The requirements for a combined lamp used for sidelights to obscure the light in the off direction are explicitly mentioned in 5. Screens for sidelights "With a combined lantern, using a single vertical filament and a very narrow division between the green and red sections, external screens need not be fitted." http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/NavRules/annexes/annex_1Intl.htm#5 9. Horizontal sectors "In the forward direction, sidelights as fitted on the vessel shall show the minimum required intensities. The intensities shall decrease to reach practical cut-off between 1 degree and 3 degrees outside the prescribed sectors." http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/NavRules/annexes/annex_1Intl.htm#9
Tom W Clark	posted 01-25-2009 02:01 PM ET (US) The cast bronze bow lights on the small Whalers in the 1980s had a portion of the casting dividing the red and green fields. During this same period Whaler also used an off-the-shelf Perko stamped stainless steel bow light as a substitute at times. This light has no chrome metal separation between the red and the green portions. It is also very possible a light on a small Whaler is an aftermarket replacement of the OE light. Do you have a photo of a bow light you are wondering about?
inlandwhaler	posted 01-25-2009 02:20 PM ET (US) Tom, Thanks for the info. That answers my question. I don’t have pictures, but Specialty Marine offers a stainless steel knock off on Ebay that has the chrome separation and from time to time I see the Perko style without the separation. Were any Whalers shipped new from the factory with the Perko style without the separation or were they strictly used as replacement parts?
Tom W Clark	posted 01-25-2009 02:27 PM ET (US) The factory has used a number of different lights over the years, some with, and some without, the separation. The cast bronze light we are all so familiar with was also made in several slight variations. It is not easy to classify and date these lights. Added to all that confusion is the fact there are now a couple good (but not perfect) reproductions on the market as well. For views of off-the-shelf bow lights that Whaler used at the factory see the photos on page 18 of the 1974 Boston Whaler catalog and page 19 of the 1985 Options and Replacement Parts catalog.
inlandwhaler	posted 01-25-2009 02:43 PM ET (US) Thanks, I'll take a look at the catalogs. I don't very often see the cast bronze originals anymore and when I do see them they're really expensive. I have one of the cast bronze with the seperation that is probably original. While it's cold and I can't go boating this winter I'm going to have it rechromed.
elaelap	posted 01-25-2009 02:44 PM ET (US) If you don't happen to have the 1974 and 1985 BW catalogs sitting around, Tom's too shy to say it--and must have missed marketing class in college--but you can view them and much, much more in his amazing 2-CD collection, 'The Boston Whaler Catalog Collection.' For more info and to order: http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/index.htm Tuco
inlandwhaler	posted 01-25-2009 03:18 PM ET (US) I just spent about 10 seconds looking through my huge collection of BW catalogs and wouldn’t you know it, those 2 seem to be missing. Tom must have really put a lot of hours into producing his CD’s! Looks like they would bring back a lot of memories of the early Whalers for those of us that are old enough to remember when they first came out.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-25-2009 05:38 PM ET (US) Try page 27 of the 1987 Options and Replacement Parts catalog.
jimh	posted 01-25-2009 09:44 PM ET (US) A little browsing through just a portion of the CETACEA collection turned up several photographs that show the combined sidelight lamp in close-up: A combined sidelight lamp c.1970: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage74.html#74-02 The current retro-style lamp seen on many models: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage71.html#71-02 A combined sidelight lamp c.1971. This appears to have a divider screen between the red and green lenses: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage57.html#57-01 An interesting combined sidelight lamp, v.1962. There is no guarantee it was OEM: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage56.html#56-08 Another combined sidelight lamp with divider screen, c.1968. I believe this one is an OEM original: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage53.html#53-02
elaelap	posted 01-25-2009 09:55 PM ET (US) OE? http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/elaelap/CetusSantaCruzapts055.jpg Tuco That's my daughter Katie christening 'Cetus' 15 CC, BTW.
crabby	posted 01-26-2009 07:24 PM ET (US) My 1985 Montauk which I have owned since August 1985 has the Perko style bowlamp (lightweight stainless steel with no divider between sectors). Granted I am the second owner of this hull but it was factory stock when I purchased it and I have no reason to believe the bow running light was refitted before I took ownership.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-26-2009 07:39 PM ET (US) Tony, It's hard to say. It looks like OE but I think it is not. I suspect it is a solid stainless steel reproduction. Those reproductions do not fit around the three piece Barbour rub rail quite as nicely as the originals.
jeffs22outrage	posted 01-26-2009 07:55 PM ET (US) So what about this one? This is off my 1975 13 I just got and it seems to be the same vintage as the boat. The boat seems to be all original and it still has the OEM stern light so I am assuming the light is OEM. The bow chock light was an option back in the day correct? http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ K-tV7xLi6LeI0yZ_k7P4Ng?authkey=aOoT2ZZ1K_4&feat=directlink
Tom W Clark	posted 01-26-2009 08:00 PM ET (US) Jeff, Yes, I believe that is the original equipment light. It is the same light shown on page 18 of the 1974 Whaler catalog. I would like to know who made it. Have you had it apart to look for Logos or part numbers? It looks like some old Attwood lights but it could also be a Wilcox-Crittenden design. Is it chrome plated zinc? or Marinium? or? The bow chock was always an option on the 13s. The navigation lights were mostly an option but came standard on some models of 13 footers.
jeffs22outrage	posted 01-26-2009 08:26 PM ET (US) Tom, The part feels like it is chromed ZINC and there is no manufacture's name anywhere on the part. There is only one part number embossed in it and it reads #2700. So, here is a another one this is a the light of our 1984 Montauk. If you notice the chock and uprights seem to be OEM however, the light housing is a standard Perko. We bought the boat in 1995 from the second owner and he had it since 1988-89. He claimed it came that way and did not think the first owner ever changed it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/dads%20whaler/ IMGP2268.jpg?t=1233019524
Tom W Clark	posted 01-26-2009 08:32 PM ET (US) Yes, that is the off-the-shelf Perko #972 light (chrome plated stamped brass, not stainless steel) that Whaler used on some boat in the mid 1980s. It is shown in the Whaler parts catalogs and is the same as what crabby describes.