EVERGLADES BOATS: Speculation Of Financial Problems

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bluewaterpirate posted 02-19-2009 08:27 AM ET (US)
Everglades Boats could be in trouble. There was a lot of talk at the Miami Boat Show last week they had to much inventory and it was adversely affecting cash flow. It is being discussed on another board but my info comes from another source. I really hope it's not true. It's going to be a tough couple of years for the boating industry.
Tom Z
BlueMax posted 02-19-2009 09:47 AM ET (US)
Do you foresee a fire sale to reduce inventory and improve cash flow? Sad to see due to the reasons, but there may be some great deals to be had on this excellent boat line.
bluewaterpirate posted 02-19-2009 10:13 AM ET (US)
I really don't know in regards to a fire sale but what I do know is the dealers here are sitting on two year old inventories they haven't been able to sell. The agreements the dealers get from their lenders have to be renegotiated because they have time stipulations attached. After a certain period of time the dealers have to use alternative plans and methods.
Tom
bluewaterpirate posted 02-19-2009 10:47 AM ET (US)
The real [concern] is dealer financing. When some of the big finance players for the dealers pulled out of the business it left a void. They couldn't purchase from the factory. Everglades kept building boats and has a substantial inverntory sitting at the factory. They owe more than the inventory is worth.
Tom
WT posted 02-19-2009 11:23 AM ET (US)
I look at boat builders like home builders. I think most knowledgeable boat buyers will be buying foreclosed boats from lenders at a very deep discount rather than buying new boats from dealers.
In my opinion any business that relies on financing is going to be in trouble in the near future. That means tons of opportunities for those with cash.
Good luck to all,
Warren
Tohsgib posted 02-19-2009 11:31 AM ET (US)
Those with cash always do just that Warren. It is those without cash that need the dealer to finance their 250 outrage with 20% down for 20 years at $745 a month. Hence why this country is in the toilet to begin with.
Ritzyrags posted 02-19-2009 11:57 AM ET (US)
Well,
The way to move such an Inventory from Everglade or Boston Whaler; for that matter; would be to put forward an advertisement campaign showing the fantastic deals to be had.
It is far better to sell the crafts AT COST or just possibly a bit less in order TO STAY SOLVENT, then to be sitting with a large and devaluating inventory and looking at bankruptcy.
As time passed; same as automobiles; the value of such crafts would go down anyway..
It is time the get the "sparklies" out and to spring the fringed and colorful banners on the boat lots.
To get some catchy commercials made featuring the INCREDIBLE price reduction on all these good and clean living items..
And associate the STIMULUS momentum with the fact that buying at these most attractive prices will realistically benefit the economy...Which it logically will... in helping out the momentum of security that our society dearly need right now.
This seems to me;
An amiable solution to the direction the boat industry seems to have been going lately.
bluewaterpirate posted 02-19-2009 12:42 PM ET (US)
Everglades responds to the story, straight forward answers.
Good for them. I wish them well for sure!
[What follows was posted on another website. The author apparently is some sort of prinicipal or spokesman for Everglades--jimh.]
Good Morning Gentlemen/Women,
I certainly appreciate all the speculation and theory surrounding Everglades Boats. Short of replying to each individual rumor, thought this might help.
1. Regarding your understanding of Textron, yes, they have pulled out of marine business.
2. Dealers are not left to sell off inventory but do need to work out alternate means of floorplan.
3. Everglades has negotiated a floorplan contract with Bank of America to pick up the Textron slack, Everglades has GE floorplan in place for dealers that qualify. Everglades is also investigating other means of floorplan financing.
4. Everglades does not have 12 million dollars of finished inventory at plant.
5. No one has come to the plant to remove any engines.
Everglades is retailing boats at levels consistent with current market demand. Since January 1 of 2009, Everglades has invested more than $250,000 in boat show participation from New York to Miami. Everglades displayed 14 models, 23 to 35 feet at the Miami International Boat Show, two separate land displays and four boats in the water. Everglades sold approximately 12 boats. The majority of which were large center console and express models. 6 boats sold in Atlanta show, 4 boats sold in Atlantic City, New England Boat Show, just started this past weekend and 2 boats sold confirmed.
Everglades has introduced two new Express model boats, a 320 Express and 350 Express in the past six months along with two new center consoles, the 210 CC and 230 CC. They also have made a major investment in new model year changes from 2008 to 2009 model boats. Everglades has one of the hottest products in the market today.
Currently, Everglades is supporting the dealer network with a limited number of office and plant employees. Like every single marine manufacturer in the business, Everglades has had to make some very difficult decisions in the past few months with regard to labor. Employees have been furloughed, employees have had to work for lower salaries and employees have had to endure living their lives with an extreme amount of uncertainty. Check around, every brand has shutdown production or made major reductions in workforce to remain viable. The marine business is very fragile right now, not unlike every other business in the US with exception of those receiving substantial capital from the government.
With the recent increase in demand and some signs of improving sales with the early winter boat shows, Everglades plans to start with some limited production in early March.
Everglades appreciates your interest in our health and well being. If you are a praying sort please put us in your prayers, our employees and families need it. If your not, throw a little positive energy our way. Everglades is in business. I am off to work on some more pressing matters but will try to reply if you have specific questions later tonight.
Kind Regards,
David Glenn
jimh posted 02-19-2009 09:27 PM ET (US)
Who is David Glenn?
Ritzyrags posted 02-19-2009 09:32 PM ET (US)
Well David,
The question is to the floor..
I think that we may need a bit of history background here.
And whatever else that you want to throw in for good measure.
WT posted 02-19-2009 10:37 PM ET (US)
David Glenn is the marketing director at Everglades. (see staff in the link below)
http://www.evergladesboats.com/company/about.php
Warren
Jkcam posted 02-20-2009 06:16 AM ET (US)
I use to think that industry leaders knew much more about their industry than the average person on the street. That misplaced trust has recently been proven so wrong,I have discarded that notion in the absence of concrete historical proof.
It may only be my uninformed, outsider mentality, but I think any boat manufacturer that still believes the way to success is in 25-35 ft. multi engine configurations is in serious denial.
"with the recent increase in demand...."
Yeah, right.
Robert V posted 02-20-2009 06:38 AM ET (US)
I went and looked at some Scouts the other day and the factory is sponsoring a special sales event direct/through dealers to liquidate floor inventory. Each dealer has a list with special pricing and options of each model and it is updated daily. Downside; dealer said you will need to add shipping and prep to the printed prices or about $1,500.00 on average 20' boat (more on larger boats/less on smaller). Seems like Scout is trying to be proactive about reducing inventory, maybe others mfr.s will join in.
Robert
lizard posted 02-20-2009 11:30 AM ET (US)
As of about one month ago, the Everglades dealer in Seal Beach CA had sold 4 boats in a 3 week period. There were all 27-35 ft with mult. engines (2-3) hanging on the transom. He said if he did not have another sale for 9 mos. he would be O.K.
No one has purchased any of the smaller Everglades line from him in the past months. I can not emphasize how well built these boats appear to be. Amenities, fit and finish. Again, it is pretty much motor of YOUR CHOICE. I think this will give them a slight edge over competing manufacturers.
To me, that just confirmed the basics of the haves and have nots. There are still people out there who are buying BIG boats.
Mobjack posted 02-20-2009 12:49 PM ET (US)
For my part I wish Everglades the best and hope for their sake as well as everyone else's that our national economy is able to get firmly on the road to recovery in a timely fashion.
For many of us who are partial to classic whalers and the designs of Everglades founder Bob Dougherty, Everglades as a company and the boats they are currently producing are what we would like to think of as the future of Boston Whaler as it should have been written. I cannot speak for some of the newest models on both sides, but as of two years ago when I was at the Miami and Annapolis boat shows, I climbed all over every available model from both companies and I have to say that while the new Whalers were certainly competitive, the Everglades product was superior at almost every level, and much more in keeping with the level of fit and finish I have grown to expect from Boston Whaler.
It's really a shame that for an industry like boats, that all of us here are so connected to, the current economic times are going to set things back a good ways. These purchases are based in large part on disposable or discretionary income, which most folks are not lucky enough to have right now. Not being able to get financing exacerbates that problem, and will spell destruction for many companies we know very well. I just hope Everglades is not one of them, I think they have a very bright future in this industry.
WT posted 02-20-2009 07:11 PM ET (US)
It's a great time to buy a boat. It will be a better time to buy a boat within the next 24 months.
The guys that had all the disposable income were business owners. Most business owners expanded there businesses during the boom times 2-5 years ago. The cheapest ways for a business owner to finance the expansion of their business was through no document home equity loans.
Guess what? The business owners are now underwater with their businesses and their nice homes. So they are going to have to sell their toys (boats).
It's going to be a great time to buy used boats within the next 12-24 months, imho.
Warren
TransAm posted 02-20-2009 09:09 PM ET (US)
It is almost never a good idea to publicly speculate on someone's specific financial status without credible, first hand information. I think its safe to say almost all boat manufacturers could be in trouble. I see no benefit to sounding the alarm in the direction of any specific manufacturer because of reported chatter unless you sit in the board room each month. I think these manufacturers have their work cut out without having to fend off rumors expressed on web forums. I applaud Mr. Glenn's measured response and correction of the facts. Lets not make their jobs any more difficult than it already is.
Ritzyrags posted 02-21-2009 01:02 AM ET (US)
Well Mr Am,
I think that this is one of the best and positive post yet.
Thank you for lighting up the darkening path with you lantern of upbeat remark.
jimh posted 02-21-2009 03:41 PM ET (US)
Everglades Boats reported strong sales from recent boat shows. See:
http://www.boating-industry.com/output.cfm?id=2030977
highanddry posted 02-21-2009 04:49 PM ET (US)
Why do y'all delight in the ruination of your fellow citizens jobs, companies? Why do you enjoy bad news? Suffice it to say many companies will not make it through this "economic event" and those tha tdo will likely be smaller than before. As well, product will probably be different from that which was sold before the downturn.
It is a fact that Textron is no longer floor planing.
OutrageMan posted 02-22-2009 12:25 AM ET (US)
Why is this important? The vast majority of the members here do not buy new boats.
Brian
Ritzyrags posted 02-22-2009 03:45 AM ET (US)
JR,
I, for one is not at the point of giving up ever adopting a brand new hull.
Natural obstacles to getting yet another dream boat will remain to be in the intricate machine that is our actual lives..And of course most importantly the ever so present juggling act called "Budget".
It is a fact that one Whaler ownership will be the norm for most of us.
But then again, some of us have been fortunate enough to be at the right place and at the right time and seized the day..
Hence a number of us will have more then the one hull parked within their compounds.
To revel in ruin and downfall of some of us will most likely attract the same as things have a way to go..
Some will call it Karma.
So Let's have fun doing our refits,polishing our Desert Tans and revarnishing our teaks.
Meanwhile like good married guys that we are;
We may be committed to our whalers but we are not dead to the newness of fresh designs and models that may come within our influences.
Everglades are very closely related to the new generations of Whalers and are naturally attractive to the true Whaler committed owners..
Let's keep it as a positive outlet to adopt a new fascination in the form of a preferred Whaler and just possibly to be tempted by an Everglade sometimes.
Let's just imagine having both brands one day on the water And further yet having both hulls stamped with the Whaler logo on gunwales.
Some of us will call foul and recoil at the idea but really;
If you didn't know of either models as in 22' could you really tell of the difference?
Just a playful thought..
john10 posted 02-22-2009 07:50 AM ET (US)
I agree
fourdfish posted 02-22-2009 08:18 AM ET (US)
While I agree with Brian that few here buy new boats and fewer
still will buy a new Everglade, the news is one important
indicator of the status of the marine industry as a whole.
I hope Everglades along with the others hang in there until
our economy recovers.
BTW- I finally see a TransAm post I can agree with.(see above)
TransAm posted 02-22-2009 08:40 AM ET (US)
There must be some galactic, supernatural event going on that we are unaware of Fourdy. I'm not holding out hope that it will last, but who knows, maybe you will finally come around.
TransAm posted 02-22-2009 08:41 AM ET (US)
:-)

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Author	Topic: EVERGLADES BOATS: Speculation Of Financial Problems
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-19-2009 08:27 AM ET (US) Everglades Boats could be in trouble. There was a lot of talk at the Miami Boat Show last week they had to much inventory and it was adversely affecting cash flow. It is being discussed on another board but my info comes from another source. I really hope it's not true. It's going to be a tough couple of years for the boating industry. Tom Z
BlueMax	posted 02-19-2009 09:47 AM ET (US) Do you foresee a fire sale to reduce inventory and improve cash flow? Sad to see due to the reasons, but there may be some great deals to be had on this excellent boat line.
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-19-2009 10:13 AM ET (US) I really don't know in regards to a fire sale but what I do know is the dealers here are sitting on two year old inventories they haven't been able to sell. The agreements the dealers get from their lenders have to be renegotiated because they have time stipulations attached. After a certain period of time the dealers have to use alternative plans and methods. Tom
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-19-2009 10:47 AM ET (US) The real [concern] is dealer financing. When some of the big finance players for the dealers pulled out of the business it left a void. They couldn't purchase from the factory. Everglades kept building boats and has a substantial inverntory sitting at the factory. They owe more than the inventory is worth. Tom
WT	posted 02-19-2009 11:23 AM ET (US) I look at boat builders like home builders. I think most knowledgeable boat buyers will be buying foreclosed boats from lenders at a very deep discount rather than buying new boats from dealers. In my opinion any business that relies on financing is going to be in trouble in the near future. That means tons of opportunities for those with cash. Good luck to all, Warren
Tohsgib	posted 02-19-2009 11:31 AM ET (US) Those with cash always do just that Warren. It is those without cash that need the dealer to finance their 250 outrage with 20% down for 20 years at $745 a month. Hence why this country is in the toilet to begin with.
Ritzyrags	posted 02-19-2009 11:57 AM ET (US) Well, The way to move such an Inventory from Everglade or Boston Whaler; for that matter; would be to put forward an advertisement campaign showing the fantastic deals to be had. It is far better to sell the crafts AT COST or just possibly a bit less in order TO STAY SOLVENT, then to be sitting with a large and devaluating inventory and looking at bankruptcy. As time passed; same as automobiles; the value of such crafts would go down anyway.. It is time the get the "sparklies" out and to spring the fringed and colorful banners on the boat lots. To get some catchy commercials made featuring the INCREDIBLE price reduction on all these good and clean living items.. And associate the STIMULUS momentum with the fact that buying at these most attractive prices will realistically benefit the economy...Which it logically will... in helping out the momentum of security that our society dearly need right now. This seems to me; An amiable solution to the direction the boat industry seems to have been going lately.
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-19-2009 12:42 PM ET (US) Everglades responds to the story, straight forward answers. Good for them. I wish them well for sure! [What follows was posted on another website. The author apparently is some sort of prinicipal or spokesman for Everglades--jimh.] Good Morning Gentlemen/Women, I certainly appreciate all the speculation and theory surrounding Everglades Boats. Short of replying to each individual rumor, thought this might help. 1. Regarding your understanding of Textron, yes, they have pulled out of marine business. 2. Dealers are not left to sell off inventory but do need to work out alternate means of floorplan. 3. Everglades has negotiated a floorplan contract with Bank of America to pick up the Textron slack, Everglades has GE floorplan in place for dealers that qualify. Everglades is also investigating other means of floorplan financing. 4. Everglades does not have 12 million dollars of finished inventory at plant. 5. No one has come to the plant to remove any engines. Everglades is retailing boats at levels consistent with current market demand. Since January 1 of 2009, Everglades has invested more than $250,000 in boat show participation from New York to Miami. Everglades displayed 14 models, 23 to 35 feet at the Miami International Boat Show, two separate land displays and four boats in the water. Everglades sold approximately 12 boats. The majority of which were large center console and express models. 6 boats sold in Atlanta show, 4 boats sold in Atlantic City, New England Boat Show, just started this past weekend and 2 boats sold confirmed. Everglades has introduced two new Express model boats, a 320 Express and 350 Express in the past six months along with two new center consoles, the 210 CC and 230 CC. They also have made a major investment in new model year changes from 2008 to 2009 model boats. Everglades has one of the hottest products in the market today. Currently, Everglades is supporting the dealer network with a limited number of office and plant employees. Like every single marine manufacturer in the business, Everglades has had to make some very difficult decisions in the past few months with regard to labor. Employees have been furloughed, employees have had to work for lower salaries and employees have had to endure living their lives with an extreme amount of uncertainty. Check around, every brand has shutdown production or made major reductions in workforce to remain viable. The marine business is very fragile right now, not unlike every other business in the US with exception of those receiving substantial capital from the government. With the recent increase in demand and some signs of improving sales with the early winter boat shows, Everglades plans to start with some limited production in early March. Everglades appreciates your interest in our health and well being. If you are a praying sort please put us in your prayers, our employees and families need it. If your not, throw a little positive energy our way. Everglades is in business. I am off to work on some more pressing matters but will try to reply if you have specific questions later tonight. Kind Regards, David Glenn
jimh	posted 02-19-2009 09:27 PM ET (US) Who is David Glenn?
Ritzyrags	posted 02-19-2009 09:32 PM ET (US) Well David, The question is to the floor.. I think that we may need a bit of history background here. And whatever else that you want to throw in for good measure.
WT	posted 02-19-2009 10:37 PM ET (US) David Glenn is the marketing director at Everglades. (see staff in the link below) http://www.evergladesboats.com/company/about.php Warren
Jkcam	posted 02-20-2009 06:16 AM ET (US) I use to think that industry leaders knew much more about their industry than the average person on the street. That misplaced trust has recently been proven so wrong,I have discarded that notion in the absence of concrete historical proof. It may only be my uninformed, outsider mentality, but I think any boat manufacturer that still believes the way to success is in 25-35 ft. multi engine configurations is in serious denial. "with the recent increase in demand...." Yeah, right.
Robert V	posted 02-20-2009 06:38 AM ET (US) I went and looked at some Scouts the other day and the factory is sponsoring a special sales event direct/through dealers to liquidate floor inventory. Each dealer has a list with special pricing and options of each model and it is updated daily. Downside; dealer said you will need to add shipping and prep to the printed prices or about $1,500.00 on average 20' boat (more on larger boats/less on smaller). Seems like Scout is trying to be proactive about reducing inventory, maybe others mfr.s will join in. Robert
lizard	posted 02-20-2009 11:30 AM ET (US) As of about one month ago, the Everglades dealer in Seal Beach CA had sold 4 boats in a 3 week period. There were all 27-35 ft with mult. engines (2-3) hanging on the transom. He said if he did not have another sale for 9 mos. he would be O.K. No one has purchased any of the smaller Everglades line from him in the past months. I can not emphasize how well built these boats appear to be. Amenities, fit and finish. Again, it is pretty much motor of YOUR CHOICE. I think this will give them a slight edge over competing manufacturers. To me, that just confirmed the basics of the haves and have nots. There are still people out there who are buying BIG boats.
Mobjack	posted 02-20-2009 12:49 PM ET (US) For my part I wish Everglades the best and hope for their sake as well as everyone else's that our national economy is able to get firmly on the road to recovery in a timely fashion. For many of us who are partial to classic whalers and the designs of Everglades founder Bob Dougherty, Everglades as a company and the boats they are currently producing are what we would like to think of as the future of Boston Whaler as it should have been written. I cannot speak for some of the newest models on both sides, but as of two years ago when I was at the Miami and Annapolis boat shows, I climbed all over every available model from both companies and I have to say that while the new Whalers were certainly competitive, the Everglades product was superior at almost every level, and much more in keeping with the level of fit and finish I have grown to expect from Boston Whaler. It's really a shame that for an industry like boats, that all of us here are so connected to, the current economic times are going to set things back a good ways. These purchases are based in large part on disposable or discretionary income, which most folks are not lucky enough to have right now. Not being able to get financing exacerbates that problem, and will spell destruction for many companies we know very well. I just hope Everglades is not one of them, I think they have a very bright future in this industry.
WT	posted 02-20-2009 07:11 PM ET (US) It's a great time to buy a boat. It will be a better time to buy a boat within the next 24 months. The guys that had all the disposable income were business owners. Most business owners expanded there businesses during the boom times 2-5 years ago. The cheapest ways for a business owner to finance the expansion of their business was through no document home equity loans. Guess what? The business owners are now underwater with their businesses and their nice homes. So they are going to have to sell their toys (boats). It's going to be a great time to buy used boats within the next 12-24 months, imho. Warren
TransAm	posted 02-20-2009 09:09 PM ET (US) It is almost never a good idea to publicly speculate on someone's specific financial status without credible, first hand information. I think its safe to say almost all boat manufacturers could be in trouble. I see no benefit to sounding the alarm in the direction of any specific manufacturer because of reported chatter unless you sit in the board room each month. I think these manufacturers have their work cut out without having to fend off rumors expressed on web forums. I applaud Mr. Glenn's measured response and correction of the facts. Lets not make their jobs any more difficult than it already is.
Ritzyrags	posted 02-21-2009 01:02 AM ET (US) Well Mr Am, I think that this is one of the best and positive post yet. Thank you for lighting up the darkening path with you lantern of upbeat remark.
jimh	posted 02-21-2009 03:41 PM ET (US) Everglades Boats reported strong sales from recent boat shows. See: http://www.boating-industry.com/output.cfm?id=2030977
highanddry	posted 02-21-2009 04:49 PM ET (US) Why do y'all delight in the ruination of your fellow citizens jobs, companies? Why do you enjoy bad news? Suffice it to say many companies will not make it through this "economic event" and those tha tdo will likely be smaller than before. As well, product will probably be different from that which was sold before the downturn. It is a fact that Textron is no longer floor planing.
OutrageMan	posted 02-22-2009 12:25 AM ET (US) Why is this important? The vast majority of the members here do not buy new boats. Brian
Ritzyrags	posted 02-22-2009 03:45 AM ET (US) JR, I, for one is not at the point of giving up ever adopting a brand new hull. Natural obstacles to getting yet another dream boat will remain to be in the intricate machine that is our actual lives..And of course most importantly the ever so present juggling act called "Budget". It is a fact that one Whaler ownership will be the norm for most of us. But then again, some of us have been fortunate enough to be at the right place and at the right time and seized the day.. Hence a number of us will have more then the one hull parked within their compounds. To revel in ruin and downfall of some of us will most likely attract the same as things have a way to go.. Some will call it Karma. So Let's have fun doing our refits,polishing our Desert Tans and revarnishing our teaks. Meanwhile like good married guys that we are; We may be committed to our whalers but we are not dead to the newness of fresh designs and models that may come within our influences. Everglades are very closely related to the new generations of Whalers and are naturally attractive to the true Whaler committed owners.. Let's keep it as a positive outlet to adopt a new fascination in the form of a preferred Whaler and just possibly to be tempted by an Everglade sometimes. Let's just imagine having both brands one day on the water And further yet having both hulls stamped with the Whaler logo on gunwales. Some of us will call foul and recoil at the idea but really; If you didn't know of either models as in 22' could you really tell of the difference? Just a playful thought..
john10	posted 02-22-2009 07:50 AM ET (US) I agree
fourdfish	posted 02-22-2009 08:18 AM ET (US) While I agree with Brian that few here buy new boats and fewer still will buy a new Everglade, the news is one important indicator of the status of the marine industry as a whole. I hope Everglades along with the others hang in there until our economy recovers. BTW- I finally see a TransAm post I can agree with.(see above)
TransAm	posted 02-22-2009 08:40 AM ET (US) There must be some galactic, supernatural event going on that we are unaware of Fourdy. I'm not holding out hope that it will last, but who knows, maybe you will finally come around.
TransAm	posted 02-22-2009 08:41 AM ET (US) :-)