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Author Topic:   REVENGE Construction

george nagy posted 04-30-2009 10:37 AM ET (US)
Is there an OUTRAGE under a REVENGE? I have seen the removal of the cuddy cabbin models producing basically an Outrage without fiberglass deck hatches and, of course, in the case of the Revenge Cuddy, the center console. But what lies beneath a Revenge W-T? Is it as simple a job as removing the cap?
Does anyone have a picture of the deck level bow locker with the hatch open? What year did they make the full length spashwell on the 22-foot Revenge?
What is the ceiling covered with on the Revenge W-T? Does anyone have a picture of the cabin with a person inside to give me some sense of scale?
jimh posted 04-30-2009 08:53 PM ET (US)
The headliner of a REVENGE W-T is brown carpet.
For a picture of the cabin of a REVENGE W-T with a person, see:
http://continuouswave.com/sail-logs/ottawaRiver2006/day4.html
Well, it's not a great picture of a person, but it might help.
The cabin of a REVENGE W-T is cozy. You can get a very good night's sleep.
Slippery Eel posted 05-01-2009 01:36 PM ET (US)
George,
I have a lot of pictures of my new to me Revenge but none of the bow locker opened. I can tell you that yes it is an Outrage hull as there are steps in the bow locker with non skid that woudl have been identical on the Outrage.
There is a wall at the rear of the bow locker that separates that area from the cabin. I am 5'10 225 and find the cabin to be comfortable. When you get in you can sit on the area that covers the porta potti straight up without bending over. The ceiling of the cuddy is sloped to allow entry and egress without folding like a pretzel.
I am about to change computers so all of my files are backed up but will take a look to see if I have any perspective shots.
Hutch
jimh posted 05-01-2009 02:28 PM ET (US)
The full-width splash well seems to have been incorporated in the 22-foot hull around 1989 or 1990, however, my 1990 REVENGE W-T Whaler Drive model is built with the older style 22-foot hull and narrow splash well, so at least one Whaler Drive model of 1990 vintage has the narrower splash well. My impression is that a non-Whaler Drive REVENGE made after about 1989 or 1990 would be likely to have the full width splash well, and I believe someone just posted some pictures of such a boat that was for sale in the Pacific Northwest.
The forward locker on the deck of a REVENGE W-T opens into an area of the hull which is formed by the inner hull of the 22-foot hull mold on the forward and sides. The aft partition of the forward locker is a bulkhead made from plywood and finished with some sort of surface layer. I suspect it is a layer of resin and gel coat. That bulkhead is fastened to the hull and then caulked rather well to prevent water from getting into the cabin. The locker has a drain to the sea. I would not try to fill the locker with water and expect it to be water-tight. The seal is sufficient to keep casual water that enters the locker from getting to the cabin, but it won't keep out 50-gallons poured into the locker.
george nagy posted 05-01-2009 03:01 PM ET (US)
It sounds like it would not be as easy or as clean a job to remove the revenge cap to produce an outrage as it would be for the older revenge cuddy or its sister the outrage cuddy. Is the cabin on the revenge w-t roughly the same size on an outrgae cuddy?
andygere posted 05-01-2009 05:06 PM ET (US)
The cuddy on a Revenge Walk Through is substantially larger than that on a comperable Outrage Cuddy model. The cabin is longer and has more headroom as well. I think converting a Revenge to an Outrage would be great deal of work, and would probably be a more expensive proposition than selling the still very desirable Revenge and seeking an Outrage to replace it with.
Regarding the stern splashwell: My 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy has the full-width splashwell dam.
Bulldog posted 05-02-2009 06:37 AM ET (US)
George, "Chesapeake Charlie" took a 20' Revenge and made her topless, ended up with a pilot house on her. Try using the serch function for him. I think there is a lot of work to the conversion and also trying to get the proper hatch covers. If you own a Revenge you want to cut that is one thing , buying one to modify, you might be better off looking for an outrage, even at much more money, your end result will be beter at less cost. All that said , I'm no purist and have made modifications to my Revenge, but sort of feel sad everytime another becomes an Outrage, as the numbers are limited and I feel Revenges are a great design.........Jack
jimh posted 05-03-2009 12:40 PM ET (US)
While there are many problems to be overcome in converting to an OUTRAGE from a REVENGE, the foremost of those is the problem of all the hatches for the forward lockers which will now be exposed. Let us start with the biggest and work through them.
The deck of the cabin of the REVENGE becomes the bottom of the forward locker on an OUTRAGE. You will need to obtain or fabricate a large hatch to cover this area and return it to a deck surface. A further problem is the companion way steps. On a REVENGE the hull is cut away to make a step down into the cabin. On an OUTRAGE conversion you will have to make a new deck panel to cover this area.
In the cabin of the REVENGE there is a locker under the forward part of the v-berth. This becomes the anchor locker on an OUTRAGE. You will need to obtain or fabricate a hatch for this locker.
In the cabin of the REVENGE there are lockers under the aft parts of each side of the v-berth. You will need to obtain or fabricate hatches for these lockers.
That makes five deck panels or hatches that will need to be made. These components will have to be strong enough to support the load of people and gear on them and the shock loads that will result. The plywood hatches of the original REVENGE do not look to me to sufficiently strong for this application, and their glossy varnish finish would not be good for a deck surface.
Considering that there are many more OUTRAGE models than REVENGE models available, I think the idea of making an OUTRAGE out of a REVENGE is not the best approach to getting an OUTRAGE.
TransAm posted 05-03-2009 01:32 PM ET (US)
Making an Outrage out of a Revenge will indeed entail some work, it is not all that difficult if you do appropriate research and develop a good battle plan. I recently was going to tackle the task of converting a 22'Temptation to an Outrage. The Temptation is very similar to a Revenge in the cabin configuration, and has a full transom & Whaler-Drive that I wanted. The one difference that swayed me from doing so was the treatment of the gunwale tops under the Temptation superstructure cap. Once the cap is removed, the gunwale tops are "unfinished" fiberglass with no snap lip. This is due to mold blockers placed in the hull molds to keep the gunwale tops uniform to accept the large cap structure. This would have required a fair amount of custom fiberglass work which I was not up for.
I researched a few Revenge conversions including the one in this thread http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012486.html . It seems on a Revenge, at least on the ones I researched, no mold blockers were used therefor, when the cabin structure is removed, the original gunwales are completely in tact.
Here is another Revenge to Outrage conversion:
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/check-out-my-boat/ 37192-rebirth-whaler-whaler-sex-change.html
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/check-out-my-boat/ 43186-rebirth-whaler-whaler-sex-change-final-stretch.html
As for deck plates, I see used ones all the time on e-bay, and Whaler dealers will sometimes have older classic ones laying around. Or, you could have or make some out of wood to match the mahogany that is currently in the cabin.
Archie Cassidy (in the CW reference thread) was kind enough to send me pics of his conversion. He may be a good source if you plan to pursue. Had it not been for the unfinished gunwale tops on the Temptation, I would have bought the Temptation and done the conversion.
jimh posted 05-03-2009 03:36 PM ET (US)
Thanks for that interesting information about the use of a mold blocker to alter the hull on a Temptation model. I am not quite clear on how it worked, and a sketch would be welcome to illustrate the process.
With regard to a REVENGE, I am certain the inner hull mold has the usual non-skid and other treatment of the gunwales for an OUTRAGE. From the cabin of a REVENGE you can reach the gunwales and feel them where they meet the cabin superstructure component.
TransAm posted 05-03-2009 05:56 PM ET (US)
I just so happens I am in the process of final cleaning. Here are some pics.
Port gunwale under Temptation cap - Cockpit
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0488.jpg
Port gunwale under Temptation cap - Amidships
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0489.jpg

Cabin, behind carpeted panel - Port
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0490.jpg

Cabin, behind carpeted panel - Starboard
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0492.jpg
Cabin, carpeted panel looking forward
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0494.jpg
As you can see, the gunwales are "unfinished". The Temptation cap must have a shallower vertical clearance at the gunwales compared to a Revenge which necessitated blocking the snap lip from being cast.
JMARTIN posted 05-06-2009 12:58 AM ET (US)
Revenge bow from the "you got to be kidding me" anchor locker on a 1983 V-22 Revenge.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/DSCF1391.jpg
John
george nagy posted 05-06-2009 09:49 AM ET (US)
Thank you trans am for the link to that other conversion - Too much work for me!
Is the snap rail area towards the bow pulpit on a revenge recessed using mold blockers? I think the outrage cuddy to regular cuddy is the largest project I would undertake.
Ihe idea I was working on was the possability of buying a revenge for the kids early years then as the grow do the conversion but it would be better to just switch hulls.

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Author	Topic: REVENGE Construction
george nagy	posted 04-30-2009 10:37 AM ET (US) Is there an OUTRAGE under a REVENGE? I have seen the removal of the cuddy cabbin models producing basically an Outrage without fiberglass deck hatches and, of course, in the case of the Revenge Cuddy, the center console. But what lies beneath a Revenge W-T? Is it as simple a job as removing the cap? Does anyone have a picture of the deck level bow locker with the hatch open? What year did they make the full length spashwell on the 22-foot Revenge? What is the ceiling covered with on the Revenge W-T? Does anyone have a picture of the cabin with a person inside to give me some sense of scale?
jimh	posted 04-30-2009 08:53 PM ET (US) The headliner of a REVENGE W-T is brown carpet. For a picture of the cabin of a REVENGE W-T with a person, see: http://continuouswave.com/sail-logs/ottawaRiver2006/day4.html Well, it's not a great picture of a person, but it might help. The cabin of a REVENGE W-T is cozy. You can get a very good night's sleep.
Slippery Eel	posted 05-01-2009 01:36 PM ET (US) George, I have a lot of pictures of my new to me Revenge but none of the bow locker opened. I can tell you that yes it is an Outrage hull as there are steps in the bow locker with non skid that woudl have been identical on the Outrage. There is a wall at the rear of the bow locker that separates that area from the cabin. I am 5'10 225 and find the cabin to be comfortable. When you get in you can sit on the area that covers the porta potti straight up without bending over. The ceiling of the cuddy is sloped to allow entry and egress without folding like a pretzel. I am about to change computers so all of my files are backed up but will take a look to see if I have any perspective shots. Hutch
jimh	posted 05-01-2009 02:28 PM ET (US) The full-width splash well seems to have been incorporated in the 22-foot hull around 1989 or 1990, however, my 1990 REVENGE W-T Whaler Drive model is built with the older style 22-foot hull and narrow splash well, so at least one Whaler Drive model of 1990 vintage has the narrower splash well. My impression is that a non-Whaler Drive REVENGE made after about 1989 or 1990 would be likely to have the full width splash well, and I believe someone just posted some pictures of such a boat that was for sale in the Pacific Northwest. The forward locker on the deck of a REVENGE W-T opens into an area of the hull which is formed by the inner hull of the 22-foot hull mold on the forward and sides. The aft partition of the forward locker is a bulkhead made from plywood and finished with some sort of surface layer. I suspect it is a layer of resin and gel coat. That bulkhead is fastened to the hull and then caulked rather well to prevent water from getting into the cabin. The locker has a drain to the sea. I would not try to fill the locker with water and expect it to be water-tight. The seal is sufficient to keep casual water that enters the locker from getting to the cabin, but it won't keep out 50-gallons poured into the locker.
george nagy	posted 05-01-2009 03:01 PM ET (US) It sounds like it would not be as easy or as clean a job to remove the revenge cap to produce an outrage as it would be for the older revenge cuddy or its sister the outrage cuddy. Is the cabin on the revenge w-t roughly the same size on an outrgae cuddy?
andygere	posted 05-01-2009 05:06 PM ET (US) The cuddy on a Revenge Walk Through is substantially larger than that on a comperable Outrage Cuddy model. The cabin is longer and has more headroom as well. I think converting a Revenge to an Outrage would be great deal of work, and would probably be a more expensive proposition than selling the still very desirable Revenge and seeking an Outrage to replace it with. Regarding the stern splashwell: My 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy has the full-width splashwell dam.
Bulldog	posted 05-02-2009 06:37 AM ET (US) George, "Chesapeake Charlie" took a 20' Revenge and made her topless, ended up with a pilot house on her. Try using the serch function for him. I think there is a lot of work to the conversion and also trying to get the proper hatch covers. If you own a Revenge you want to cut that is one thing , buying one to modify, you might be better off looking for an outrage, even at much more money, your end result will be beter at less cost. All that said , I'm no purist and have made modifications to my Revenge, but sort of feel sad everytime another becomes an Outrage, as the numbers are limited and I feel Revenges are a great design.........Jack
jimh	posted 05-03-2009 12:40 PM ET (US) While there are many problems to be overcome in converting to an OUTRAGE from a REVENGE, the foremost of those is the problem of all the hatches for the forward lockers which will now be exposed. Let us start with the biggest and work through them. The deck of the cabin of the REVENGE becomes the bottom of the forward locker on an OUTRAGE. You will need to obtain or fabricate a large hatch to cover this area and return it to a deck surface. A further problem is the companion way steps. On a REVENGE the hull is cut away to make a step down into the cabin. On an OUTRAGE conversion you will have to make a new deck panel to cover this area. In the cabin of the REVENGE there is a locker under the forward part of the v-berth. This becomes the anchor locker on an OUTRAGE. You will need to obtain or fabricate a hatch for this locker. In the cabin of the REVENGE there are lockers under the aft parts of each side of the v-berth. You will need to obtain or fabricate hatches for these lockers. That makes five deck panels or hatches that will need to be made. These components will have to be strong enough to support the load of people and gear on them and the shock loads that will result. The plywood hatches of the original REVENGE do not look to me to sufficiently strong for this application, and their glossy varnish finish would not be good for a deck surface. Considering that there are many more OUTRAGE models than REVENGE models available, I think the idea of making an OUTRAGE out of a REVENGE is not the best approach to getting an OUTRAGE.
TransAm	posted 05-03-2009 01:32 PM ET (US) Making an Outrage out of a Revenge will indeed entail some work, it is not all that difficult if you do appropriate research and develop a good battle plan. I recently was going to tackle the task of converting a 22'Temptation to an Outrage. The Temptation is very similar to a Revenge in the cabin configuration, and has a full transom & Whaler-Drive that I wanted. The one difference that swayed me from doing so was the treatment of the gunwale tops under the Temptation superstructure cap. Once the cap is removed, the gunwale tops are "unfinished" fiberglass with no snap lip. This is due to mold blockers placed in the hull molds to keep the gunwale tops uniform to accept the large cap structure. This would have required a fair amount of custom fiberglass work which I was not up for. I researched a few Revenge conversions including the one in this thread http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012486.html . It seems on a Revenge, at least on the ones I researched, no mold blockers were used therefor, when the cabin structure is removed, the original gunwales are completely in tact. Here is another Revenge to Outrage conversion: http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/check-out-my-boat/ 37192-rebirth-whaler-whaler-sex-change.html http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/check-out-my-boat/ 43186-rebirth-whaler-whaler-sex-change-final-stretch.html As for deck plates, I see used ones all the time on e-bay, and Whaler dealers will sometimes have older classic ones laying around. Or, you could have or make some out of wood to match the mahogany that is currently in the cabin. Archie Cassidy (in the CW reference thread) was kind enough to send me pics of his conversion. He may be a good source if you plan to pursue. Had it not been for the unfinished gunwale tops on the Temptation, I would have bought the Temptation and done the conversion.
jimh	posted 05-03-2009 03:36 PM ET (US) Thanks for that interesting information about the use of a mold blocker to alter the hull on a Temptation model. I am not quite clear on how it worked, and a sketch would be welcome to illustrate the process. With regard to a REVENGE, I am certain the inner hull mold has the usual non-skid and other treatment of the gunwales for an OUTRAGE. From the cabin of a REVENGE you can reach the gunwales and feel them where they meet the cabin superstructure component.
TransAm	posted 05-03-2009 05:56 PM ET (US) I just so happens I am in the process of final cleaning. Here are some pics. Port gunwale under Temptation cap - Cockpit http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0488.jpg Port gunwale under Temptation cap - Amidships http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0489.jpg Cabin, behind carpeted panel - Port http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0490.jpg Cabin, behind carpeted panel - Starboard http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0492.jpg Cabin, carpeted panel looking forward http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/ Temptation%20gunwales/?action=view¤t=IMG_0494.jpg As you can see, the gunwales are "unfinished". The Temptation cap must have a shallower vertical clearance at the gunwales compared to a Revenge which necessitated blocking the snap lip from being cast.
JMARTIN	posted 05-06-2009 12:58 AM ET (US) Revenge bow from the "you got to be kidding me" anchor locker on a 1983 V-22 Revenge. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/DSCF1391.jpg John
george nagy	posted 05-06-2009 09:49 AM ET (US) Thank you trans am for the link to that other conversion - Too much work for me! Is the snap rail area towards the bow pulpit on a revenge recessed using mold blockers? I think the outrage cuddy to regular cuddy is the largest project I would undertake. Ihe idea I was working on was the possability of buying a revenge for the kids early years then as the grow do the conversion but it would be better to just switch hulls.