ContinuousWave
Whaler
Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
How HONDA Markets Their Outboard Motors
search | FAQ |
profile | register | author help
|
|
ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
How HONDA Markets Their Outboard Motors
|
| Author | Topic: How HONDA Markets Their Outboard Motors |
| neversummer |
posted 05-14-2009 08:37 AM ET (US)  
I bought a 2007 Honda 50-HP for my 15-footer, and I love it. But when I was doing research and comparing Honda to Yamaha and E-TEC, I could not understand why Honda's website focused on marketing their midsized engines for pontoon boats, aluminum fishing boats, etc. Why? It rubbed me the wrong way, especially since you look at E-TEC marketing and it's all about muscle and power, even for the small boats. Shouldn't Honda be focusing on how well their engines do on Whalers and the like? |
| jimh |
posted 05-14-2009 09:07 AM ET (US)
My impression of the outboard motor market is that the greatest majority, perhaps 80-percent, of outboard motor sales are on the transoms of new boats. Those transoms are generally occupied with cozy engine-boat deals, and Honda has not seemed to have been able to break in with too many sport boat, fishing boat, or offshore boat manufacturers. They are more successful with pontoon boat makers. Don't underestimate the volume of pontoon boat sales. While as Boston Whaler boaters we might think of the aluminum pontoon boat as a lesser vessel, there are plenty of them sold every year, and Honda is popular with them. As for Boston Whaler boats, a HONDA is really only likely as a re-power. The higher weight of the HONDA four-cycle motors has kept them from being used as much as other, lighter motors. The latest generation of HONDA four-cycle outboards is shedding weight, and the difference is now much less than before between a HONDA and other choices. If you look at the size and weight of an older HONDA motor like their 135-HP, you'd see it was a behemoth for its power rating. It would have put the transom of most classic Boston Whaler boats under water. Now they have better choices. The 225-HP Honda is no bigger than that old 135-HP, at least to my eye. It is a much better fit to a Boston Whaler classic like an OUTRAGE 22. |
| Perry |
posted 05-14-2009 12:33 PM ET (US)
quote: Jim, I think you mean the old BF130 not the 2005 to present BF135/150. The BF130 was big and heavy but 11 years ago, when it was introduced, it was the highest HP offering in a 4 stroke outboard. |
| jimh |
posted 05-14-2009 01:27 PM ET (US)
Yes, Perry's correct. I was thinking of the old 130-HP HONDA four-cycle. I saw very beamy commercial boat, almost a barge, set up with a pair of those motors. They were very large. I imagine that for their day, they were quite innovative. |
| SJUAE |
posted 05-14-2009 05:59 PM ET (US)
Neversummer Although US may well represent somewhere in the 40%’s of outboard sales and Europe in the 30%’s. Pontoon sales in my best guess are probably +90% US. You may of got a slightly different perspective internationally but not necessarily for Whaler. But as Jim notes generally packaged US sport/fishing deals are not in Honda’s favour. Regards |
| lurkynot |
posted 05-14-2009 10:25 PM ET (US)
It bothered me to see the coasties running around here in the Great Lakes with those silver backs on their transoms. I asked the marine mechanic I deal with who services them down on the Detroit River for the Harbor Patrol and he said the simplicity of the design for servicing vs the Optimax's especially in the armed forces led to the Honda choice. |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 01:36 AM ET (US)
Could you give us an example of where Honda uses "simplicity of design" as a marketing point? Most of the advertising I see from Honda is touting the complexity of the design. Honda promotes things like: --variable valve timing, a very complex mechanical arrangement --specialized fuel-air mapping for optimum economy --and other technological enhancements I don't recall ever seeing an advertisement or promotion from Honda that claimed their motors were "simple in design." |
| Dave Sutton |
posted 05-15-2009 05:50 AM ET (US)
Jim, Suspect that he really intended "simplicity of maintenance" as opposed to design. Our local Coasties were right next to our commercial fishing dock up in RI, and when their mechanics absolutely loved the Hondas and raved about them, as all they really ever did was to change the oil and add gas. Remember that this is really a comparison (in their minds) about 4 stroke v/s the old 2 stroke engines that they had previously, and not between different 4 stroke engines. I you yelled across the water to one of the Coxn's "How do you like the engine?" the answer would be "I love it, it's so damned simple to keep running...". My guess is that this sentiment was the intent of the posting, not the mechanical method by which that transparent 'simplicity' is obtained (which is darned complex indeed).
. |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 09:23 AM ET (US)
I have seen many Coast Guard 25-foot S.A.F.E boats with twin Honda 225-HP motors. They are the standard set up for that boat, as far as I can tell. I've never seen anything but Honda motors rigged on them. However, in terms of Honda marketing, I do not recall a single instance of where Honda used these boats. I've never seen Honda promote the fact that the United States Coast Guard uses Honda motors in their marketing. This might be another opportunity for marketing the Honda motor of which advantage is not being taken by Honda. |
| 20dauntless |
posted 05-15-2009 10:23 AM ET (US)
Honda outboards are actually very popular here in the PNW. I'd say they are probably tied with Yamaha as the outboard I see most. Honda seems to do a good job in marketing their engines to a lot of the smaller builders. I see tons of Hondas on aluminum boats as well as smaller fiberglass brands. Yamaha also does a good job with these companies. Mercury seems to disregard them as I rarely see any new Mercury power on locally manufactured boats from small builders. In fact, I rarely see Mercury on any boat that was not built by Brunswick and shipped with a Mercury. The decision to just sell Mercury outboards on Brunswick transoms may make sense financially, but it certainly is a different approach than Honda has taken. I think in the whole scheme of things the outboard division of Honda Motors is fairly small. Honda is a massive company with a lot of different, and probably more profitable divisions. BTW, I love every Honda product we own. They are built superbly, extremely reliable, simple to maintain, and offer an excellent value. |
| L H G |
posted 05-15-2009 02:51 PM ET (US)
Honda outboard mostly sell themselves as the original leader in 4-stroke engines. Their marketing is very low key and emphasizes reliability, longevity, and fuel economy. Performance is not their game. They defer that to Mercury. 20 - it appears something has changed with the USCG-Safeboat-Honda relationship. That large purchase order for those initial 26' Safeboats, with twin Honda 225's, was done before the Mercury Verado was introduced. It has been a PR problem for the Coast Guard, with many complaining about Japanese engines on US military craft. USCG and Safeboat seem to have a newer relationship with Mercury Vaerado, because I am seeing the original Safeboats being re-rigged with Verados, |
| Perry |
posted 05-15-2009 03:22 PM ET (US)
Larry that me be true in Florida with the repower to Mercury, but here in Hawaii, they are repowering with Honda when needed. I also recently saw the Coast Guard off load three new 26 foot Safe Boats with brand new BF225 Hondas on the transoms. Like 20dauntless said about the PNW, Honda and Yamaha are very popular here in Hawaii. |
| Buckda |
posted 05-15-2009 03:44 PM ET (US)
quote: ROTFLMAO!
We in the Midwest and US may poo-pooh how Japanese companies approach things, but underestimating them or assuming that they are "deferential" is a huge mistake. Japanese corporations often take very long-term approaches to planning and development. They are not quite as driven by quarterly earnings as American companies. This gives executives the benefit of making certain decisions that may move things more slowly or make them expensive for the company in the short-term, but long term benefits are huge. Look at Toyota. They made expensive long-term commitments to the US auto market in the 70's and today they are a global leader in automotive manufacturing. Being first gives good bragging rights, but doing it best usually is the product/course that "wins" in the long term. Honda has always been a product that quietly does things very well and enjoys strong sales. Their autos are very strong and well made, but they are not #1 in sales. But ask someone if they'd buy a Honda for reliability and anyone who does not have another bias will say "YES!". I agree that their early outboards appeared clunky and JimH is right - those 130's were huge - but were also groundbreaking for their time. There are no Honda 2-stroke outboards. They've been sold on the 4-stroke format from day 1. I think that what you're seeing in terms of differences in Honda marketing is due to a different approach from a Japanese company, and a company that has lucrative and sizable business operations/obligations across the globe in completely different manufacturing verticals. The only barrier that I see that has hindered their proliferation in the Midwest is a perceived "buy American" sentiment in the heavily unionized rust belt states, and a subsequent limited distribution/dealer network for sales and service. Besides, if you're a Honda dealer - you're going to sell a lot more motorcycles, lawnmowers, scooters and cars than you are outboard motors - so your focus is going to be on where you generate sales volume and service dollars. |
| gss036 |
posted 05-15-2009 04:33 PM ET (US)
I too am a big HONDA fan and own many Honda products. True, all of our Coast Guard/Home Land Security boats came with Honda's. They started out with Yamaha, ran into a warranty issue with Yamaha and switched to Honda. Now, all of our local reprowers are with Mercury Verados. Some w/triples and quads, 1000 hp on a 38 foot boat. That is a floating fuel tank. I asked a couple different crews about the Mercury engines, they say the are ok, but have tore up several lower units, saying they are not strong engine too withstand they type of running they need to do sometimes. |
| gss036 |
posted 05-15-2009 04:38 PM ET (US)
Now, back to Mercury again, they are also requiring more small mfgs to install the outboards. SeaSport boats @ Boon Docks is a prime example. They were using some Mercury I/O's along w/Volvo's in the boats, but Mercury forced them also carry the outboards in order to be able to use the I/O units. Normally all their outboards were Yamaha. Now they have a showroom full of Mercury outboards. When you have the marketing power that Brunswick has you can dictate that kind of thing. |
| lurkynot |
posted 05-15-2009 05:11 PM ET (US)
JimH said: "Could you give us an example of where Honda uses "simplicity of design" as a marketing point? When did I say that Honda used it in their marketing? I think you like to argue with people. If you need clarity re-read the post and then perhaps we can go over any points you would like to challenge. |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 08:11 PM ET (US)
We're discussing the marketing of Honda motors. We are not discussing how the Coast Guard feels about them. If personnel in the Coast Guard think the Honda motor has a simple design, that is great, but I don't understand how it relates to marketing strategies from Honda. I never seen Honda touting their motors for the simplicity of their design, so I can't connect the dots between your mention of the perception of the Coast Guard personnel and the way Honda markets their motors. |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 08:28 PM ET (US)
Re performance marketing: Honda is actively promoting their own racing classes using Honda motor in England. They've got an active racing fleet of one-design boats using stock Honda motors. See Formula Four-Stroke As for public relations problems for the Coast Guard, is there any evidence of a problem in public relations with having Honda motors? I would also speculate there might be a problem, but I don't recall any reaction by the Coast Guard. The United States Coast Guard has some much bigger public relations problems than use of Honda motors. They've a much bigger problems with their Deepwater program than they've with Honda motors. See http://cryptome.org/cg-inside.htm I have seen two larger S.A.F.E. boats powered with Mercury Verado motors, but I have not seen any of the 25-foot class boats with anything except Honda motors, and that is probably a dozen sightings. A small S.A.F.E. boat crewman told me they get 3,000-hours of problem free running from those Honda motors. It is hard to argue with that. |
| lurkynot |
posted 05-15-2009 08:48 PM ET (US)
Jim, I could say a whole lot at this point but once again I will let it go. |
| Kingsteven18 |
posted 05-15-2009 08:52 PM ET (US)
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic& taxonomyName=security&articleId=9019819&taxonomyId=17&intsrc=kc_top |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 08:58 PM ET (US)
I will be pleased to say a whole lot more. Let me start with this link: http://www.honda-marine.com/Why/WhyChoose.aspx That page gives the Honda marketing strategy in a concise form. Let's analyze what they say: Paragraph One: emphasis on originator of four-cycle outboard, just as LHG noted. Paragraph Two: largest global engine manufacturer, quality and performance. Paragraph Three: technologically advanced design. Paragraph Four: highest customer satisfaction. Paragraph Five: power, fuel efficiency, and reliability, along with long life. Sorry, but I don't see anything about simplicity of design or use by the Coast Guard. |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 09:05 PM ET (US)
The decision to use the HONDA motor for the S.A.F.E. boat outboard was based on performance and warranty, according to the president of S.A.F.E. Boats:
quote: Cited at http://www.lighthouse-marine.com/safeboat.html I don't see any mention of simplicity of design as a factor. |
| jimh |
posted 05-15-2009 09:14 PM ET (US)
I see an interesting discrepancy between what Honda thinks its marketing is conveying and what boaters perceive about the Honda motor. Honda thinks it is marketing performance and technological sophistications. However, from the responses and comments of neversummer and lurkynot we see the exact opposite perception. Honda's message has not been heard. These users think Honda motors lack performance and are simple designs. It appears that Honda marketing has not been succeeding in delivering its message. Honda says they've got high performance and technologically advanced engines, but users hear no performance and simple design. Dave--You need to take on Honda as a client, and hire me as a consultant. |
| Whalerdog |
posted 05-15-2009 09:46 PM ET (US)
Honda probably gives their motors to the GC at a loss for advertising. |
| lakeman |
posted 05-16-2009 06:53 AM ET (US)
Not an outboard, but a large local community's police recently announced that they were switching from Harley Motor Cycles to Honda because the easier, less, and cheaper maintenance would save money. Back to boat motors, someone above said the Verado lower units were blowing up or could not stand the high horsepower and use of it. A few years back the Honda's outboards lower units were a Mercury unit. I wonder if this is true today? Honda build good motors but around my part of America, Florida, it is hard to get good service on one. It might seem for Honda to make all dealers, let us say, Honda Motor Cycles, capable of servicing their outboards. |
| jimh |
posted 05-16-2009 09:34 PM ET (US)
I don't recall Honda mentioning the Coast Guard using Honda motors on their boats, but, then again, I don't recall Mercury mentioning the Coast Guard using the Verado motor, either. Maybe there is a rule in advertising and promotion not to cite things like this. |
| newt |
posted 05-18-2009 07:56 AM ET (US)
The link below is a scan from the inside front cover of "On The Water" magazine this month. |
| hauptjm |
posted 05-18-2009 09:08 AM ET (US)
Jimh, your last post began with, "I don't recall Honda...". Therein lies my impression of Honda marketing. My impression is that Honda, in general, does not do high profile marketing on the line of BRP or Mercury. I'm not implying this is bad or even relagated to just their marine division, but rather as a company. Whatever Honda does obviously works by evidence of their sucesses. I will say, cosmetically, I'm not a fan of their outboard design, but mechanically they seem very sound. I know it sounds shallow, but you can't have all function without some form. |
| L H G |
posted 05-18-2009 12:14 PM ET (US)
Since this article began with a discussion of the performance of a Honda 50 HP engine, perhaps this article I wrote previously would be of renewed interest. |
| jimh |
posted 05-18-2009 09:41 PM ET (US)
The outcome of a boat test done by a magazine is not particularly representative of Honda's marketing. They really do not have much control over the magazine's testing or the outcome, which is primarily influenced by the performance of their motor relative to the competitors, or how the magazine structured the test, or how the magazine likes their product. You can find all sorts of magazine tests with all sorts of outcomes, including plenty in which the Honda does not win, but I won't bother cutting and pasting all those articles into this discussion, because they really have nothing to do with Honda's marketing strategy, our topic. Back to Honda and how they market their products. I will diverge somewhat from outboard motors to automobiles. I have been watching a lot of NHL hockey the past month, as the season is over and the league is in the playoffs series. It so happens that Honda is the official sponsor of the National Hockey League, and as a result the telecasts of the games are saturated with Honda commercials. It just dawned on me tonight, as I was watching a Honda commercial for about the one hundredth time, what their marketing message was. The Honda TV commercial has very little voice-over. It shows a montage of images of a family getting their kids to hockey practice and hockey games using a Honda SUV to drive though the ice and snow at all times of the day and night. Finally at the end, the announcer voices the Honda tag line: "Honda, as reliable as the people who drive them." There's the Honda marketing message in a nutshell. R_E_L_I_A_B_L_E. And there is a very explicit linkage with the users of the product. It is a pat on the back of both the product and the people who bought it. A kind of self-congratulations to both. I think this is typical of Honda marketing in general. Not too flashy, not too over the top. Not the fastest, but definitely very reliable. Thanks to newt for reproducing the print ad for the Honda motor with the U.S. Coast Guard S.A.F.E. boat. I had not seen that one before. Let's watch for it in other publications to see if Honda is using it nationally. |
| |
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.