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Author Topic:   State Laws On Minimum Instruction
mojack posted 07-20-2009 02:52 PM ET (US)   Profile for mojack   Send Email to mojack  
Just about every weekend I am amazed at the low level of knowledge regarding rules of boat operation, common courtesy, and how tubes and skiers are towed. I frequent Fish and Magnolia River on the northern Gulf Coast in southern Alabama and each weekend I am flabberghasted (sp) at how boat operators operate their craft. Several times I've had boats come close behind a tube that I was pulling with kids onboard and attempt to follow me there indefinately until I realized what they were doing and motioned for them to come around.
I also frequently experience the boaters that drive on the left side of the river pulling skiers or tubes and when approached are expecting me to move further over to the right and risk grounding or impact with other submerged objects.
If I'm wrong, please let me know but common sense would tell me that these two manners of operating boats are at least stupid and most likely illegal.
Please provide any input (hopefully of other areas that have done some kind of grass-roots instruction) that has improved this kind of boat operation.
Thanks,
Derek
pglein posted 07-20-2009 04:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for pglein  Send Email to pglein     
Many states do. The Coast Guard has been pushing for this on a national level for a while now.

As for whether or not Alabama has such a law, I couldn't tell you. However, if you're already currently boating in the state, I would imagine that you should probably already know the answer that question.

mojack posted 07-20-2009 05:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
I think that may be part of the problem. Not enough on the education on proper boating and more on bouys and navigation, etc. Boaters here have to have a boating license that went into effect about 10 or so years ago. Only problem with that was they excluded anyone that was 40 years of age or older when they implemented it.
Not smart if you ask me as about half of the offenders are gray-headed ;-). I've been boating my whole life, but the number of idiots out there really has me angry lately.

I think what finally ticked me off enought to post this is some older guy (I'm 41....) on Saturday was going down the left side of the river pulling a kid on a wakeboard (I'm on the right side of the river about a 1/5 of the way out from the bank pulling 2 kids on a tube) and he's pointing at me to move over and pointing to the kid he's pulling like I should be the one to move further over to avoid hitting his kid. This particular section of Magnolia River is about 4 or 5 hundred feet wide and this guy comes within 40 feet of me when he passes. There were no other boats on that section of the river at that time for him to be over so far to the left.
I'll do some checking with some local USCG guys and see what they say...
Derek

mojack posted 07-21-2009 09:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
As I suspected there is no rule or regulation in Alabama regarding how closely a boat may follow a boat towing a skier/tube/etc.
R T M posted 07-21-2009 10:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
They`re are many ignorant(as to boating) boaters out there. You can`t educate them, and you can only try to keep away from them. The best thing to do if you are employed, is find a job where you work weekends, and have a couple of days off during the week. Thankfully I`m retired, and don`t have to deal with weekend boaters. However, last Saturday during our AOMCI (Antique Outboard) Meet, where we regularly run our small hydroplanes, a boat coming up the Suwanee River on the wrong side ran through a group of about six race boats almost dumping them, they were lucky to get stopped in time before running over the boats two ft. wake. Race boats out of necessity keep away from all others. I notice Bassboaters are arrogant and don`t care and waverunners, well we all know about them.

rich/Binkie

bruser posted 07-21-2009 11:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for bruser  Send Email to bruser     
In the state of Michigan there are laws on operation with skiers in tow, this law includes tubers( written before tubing was popular but grandfathered in under general language of the law)
It requires a spotter ( someone who is able to communicate to the driver the situation with the skiier behind the boat)the boat must operate in a counter-clockwise direction on the lake or body of water. There are very few other rules, as a matter of fact the skiier doesn't even need a PFD while skiing, however needs to have one on the boat.
mojack posted 07-21-2009 11:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
We have that one too. We also have one that says you can't operate the vessel in such a way as to "fling" the skier or tuber into another person or object. There are only two rules regarding pulling tubes or skiers though. Should be more, IMHO.

I think there needs to be additional rules regarding other vessels overtaking vessels pulling skiers and tubes.

kwik_wurk posted 07-21-2009 11:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for kwik_wurk  Send Email to kwik_wurk     
Yes, in Washington we have this that is being phased in for various age groups.

The Q/A exam is equivalent to getting a drivers license.

http://www.boat.wa.gov/safety-ed.asp

mojack posted 07-21-2009 12:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
Thanks but all of these are basically the same as we have. I could find no rule or regulation regarding how closely a vessel can follow another vessel pulling a skier/tube. I still haven't heard from our local CG...
Buckda posted 07-21-2009 12:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
The rule is generally at least 100 ft from a person in the water. I would extrapolate that to allow a 150 ft corridor on either side of a vessel towing a skier or other water sport activity - to allow for the ski rope and possible swing (slalom skiers, etc) and still stay 100 feet away from the individual who is skiing.

I would NEVER follow a skier or other water sports activity (even Jet Skiers) closer than that which would allow evasive maneuvers and still maintain the 100 ft. clearance.

In Michigan, if the river is not wide enough, it is technically illegal to ski on (you must leave room for opposing or overtaking traffic). We never skied on the river anyway because there is not a lot of room with traffic for the tow boat to circle around and pick up a skier...although the water temperature is nearly always warmer and the conditions better for that activity on a river than in the main lake.

Next time a boat is following you that closely, use the VHF and contact the Coast Guard or water patrol in your area. Get the AL numbers too - at least the law may stop the guy and "inform" him about prudent operation.

Buckda posted 07-21-2009 12:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Additionally, I believe that that vessel was violating rule 16 that requires them to stand well clear of the vessel with right of way (you, towing the skier).
gnr posted 07-21-2009 01:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for gnr    
Seems to me that trying to ski/tube in the narrow confines of a well traveled river might be asking for trouble.

You never know what the guy pulling the skier/tuber is going to do. On the lake I always just give a very wide berth. I can see myself losing patience with trying to manouver around a boat trailing another human 50' or 100' behind while making unpredictable moves in a confined waterway. I can alos see not wanting to go around someone pulling a skier/tuber in a confined area as typically the skier towing boat will be making a sharp turn one way or the other.

Somewhere on the internet there is a thread going about how inconsiderate skier/tubers are for clogging up the channels and not letting people by.

mojack posted 07-21-2009 07:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
I guess I should have added more information regarding the size and length of the river. The narrow section is idle speed only and is only a few miles long before it empties into the bay. There are several places that open up and provide ample opportunity for any of the really impatient guys to get around (it's only a few miles so getting stuck behind someone really isn't a big issue). The river probably averages 500 or so feet wide.
My main beef is that people really don't know the rules of boating and either expect others to just "get out of their way" no matter what side of the river they are travelling on or the ones that follow too closely behind skiers/tubes.
I really don't think 100 or 150 feet is nearly far enough for a boat to be travelling behind a skier/tube. I would think 500 feet would be more appropriate if and only if there was no safe way to overtake the vessel towing the skier/tube.
I'm seriously thinking about calling the AMP to see if there is a way to add this proposed rule.
jimh posted 07-21-2009 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
There may be local laws regarding a vessel towing a water skier, but under the ColRegs, a boat can only be considered to be restricted in her ability to maneuver by virtue of her work. For example, a boat dredging or doing other work is a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver. A recreational boat with a skier is not a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver. It is simply a power-driven vessel.
jimh posted 07-21-2009 11:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Excerpt from RULE 3--GENERAL DEFINITIONS

(g) The term "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

The term "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" shall include but not be limited to:

(i) A vessel engaged in laying, servicing, or picking up a navigational mark, submarine cable or pipeline;

(ii) A vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;

(iii) A vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;

(iv) A vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;

(v) A vessel engaged in mineclearance operations;

(vi) A vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.

jimh posted 07-21-2009 11:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule03.htm
Newtauk1 posted 07-22-2009 12:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Newtauk1    
Must be a Southern thing. Tubing on a river seems dumb. I guess this practice weeds out itself...no pun intended.
mojack posted 07-22-2009 07:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
Thanks Jimh, I'll look into the regs you posted for me.

Newtauk1, it is actually great fun for kids, sorry you haven't tried it for your kids.

-Derek

jimh posted 07-22-2009 09:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
One of the most basic rules of avoiding collisions is RULE 15:

"When two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel."

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule1415.htm

Last week we were Grand Traverse Bay. We were heading West. A series of boats approached us from the South, heading North. There was a crossing situation with the first boat in the series and our boat.

It was clear to me from RULE 15 that in this crossing situation the other vessel was required to not impede my course and to keep out of the way. However, as we came closer, it was apparent to me that the other boat was not going to alter his course or speed. I altered my course and speed to keep out of the way, to not cross in front of the other boat, and to not turn to port, as required by the rules. The other boat maintained his course and speed and crossed in front of me, all actions in violation of RULE 15.

After the first vessel in the series crossed in front of us, the second vessel approached. Again, according to RULE 15, the same situation applied. We looked toward the second vessel, and again we saw no indication that a change in course and speed was being made. We sat dead in the water while the second boat crossed in front of us.

Following was a third boat. You can guess what he did: maintained course and speed and crossed in front of us. We sat there and bounced around as the three boats' large wakes rolled into us. I thought to myself, "Well, so much for the navigation rules."

mojack posted 07-22-2009 09:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
I think the problem in this situation is that everyone "thinks" that they have the right-of-way and really doesn't know that the vessel on their starboard side indeed has the right-of-way. You clearly had the right-of-way in that situation even though there were multiple boats in the series all heading the same way.
I am a firm believer that driving automobiles and boats is a privilege not a right and those so privileged should know and adhere to the rules and regulations set forth in efforts to protect us. I am also a firm believer that boater's licenses as well as driver's licenses should be renewed with a brief exam every four years, not necessarily to keep someone from driving but to inform them or to refresh them on certain rules and regulations.
Thanks for the posts jimh.
mojack posted 07-22-2009 09:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
Newtauk1, your comments regarding the perceived intelligence of an activity are neither welcomed or merited in my opinion. please refrain from comments on this thread unless they pertain to either one of the infractions noted above regarding following too closely or driving on the wrong side of the river/channel.
Derek
Newtauk1 posted 07-22-2009 12:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Newtauk1    

Shucks mojack I am sorry to have hit a nerve. I do apologize.In your own words "If I'm wrong, please let me know but common sense would tell me that these two manners of operating boats are at least stupid and most likely illegal."

It sounds like a dangerous activity on the river based on your report. I would not put my child out there to possibly get hit by another boat, debris or submerged object. My suggestion regarding safety in this situation is to refrain from the activity. Whether there are rules (laws) or not it seems that the danger is omnipresent. I hope you find out the rules and regulations for your area of boating soon.

mojack posted 07-22-2009 05:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
Thanks for the reply Newtauk1. I'll refrain from calling several "Northern" things that I think are dumb, dumb. That was a very arrogant statement in your earlier post.

The point of this thread was to find out if there were any regulations in any other states regarding boats following vessels pulling skiers/tubes and if vessels pulling skiers/tubes had rights to drive on the left side of the river or channel.

The point is to draw it to boaters attention and maybe eventually have periodic re-examinations of the rules.

You would have to actually see the river to determine if the activity is dangerous or not. The activity in and of itself is not necessarily dangerous especially if the driver is experienced and aware of his surroundings, unfortunately a few law-breakers could change that.

I am acutely aware of the present laws in this beautiful state.
Thanks

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