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Author Topic:   Archimedes' Montauk

elaelap posted 09-18-2009 12:56 AM ET (US)
One day Archimedes, a bright but lazy fellow, got the idea of removing marine growth from the bottom of his Montauk by launching it in his clorinated swimming pool and letting it drift around there for a couple of days. It seemed to work okay--the barnacles loosened up and, one by one, sank to the bottom of the pool.
"This is great," said the old man. "Now I'll run the motor for five or ten minutes to give it a nice fresh water flush."
Well, try as hard as he could, Archimedes couldn't get the double-damned outboard--manufacturer's name unknown or unreported, but many of us here can guess--to start. Disgusted with the thing, Archimedes (a very strong lazy old man indeed), unbolted it and, standing in his boat, hurled it toward the edge of the pool. Whoops! Not strong enough...the motor plunged into the pool and swiftly sank to the bottom.
Archimedes, being who he was, pondered the following questions:
1. While the motor was flying through the air, and disregarding the downward thrust caused by my effort to throw the motor upwards, did the water level in the pool increase, stay the same, or get lower?
2. When the motor fell back into the pool and sank to the bottom, was the water level the same as when the motor was bolted on my Montauk's transom, lower, or higher?
3. And what about them barnacles...?
Tony
RLSmith posted 09-18-2009 01:10 AM ET (US)
Not sure whether we are supposed to answer or just ponder.
1. The volume of water displaced by the boat decreases when the motor is thrown in the air. So the pool water level would decrease.
2. When the motor sinks in the pool it displaces less water volume than the equivalent water weight required to float the motor when bolted to the boat transom. Otherwise the motor would float when thrown into the pool. Therefore the pool water level is lower when the motor is on the bottom of the pool, than on the boat transom.
3. Likewise with the barnacles. If they sink to the bottom they must be heavier than the water they displace. So the water level will be lower when the barnacles are on the bottom of the pool than when they are on the boat.
deepwater posted 09-18-2009 06:16 AM ET (US)
how deep is the pool? ^@^
Jefecinco posted 09-18-2009 09:29 AM ET (US)
What was the water temperature? Celsius only please. What was the water's PH? What was the specific humidity?
We can work this out.
Butch
Buckda posted 09-18-2009 09:33 AM ET (US)
Tony -
Don't put your Whalers in your pool.
#1 - it's Whaler Abuse (like caging a wild animal)
#2 - your neighbors will think you're losing (more of) your mind

In the words of your current governor as the "Terminator" in T-3: "Don't.....do that."
:)
jimh posted 09-18-2009 09:43 AM ET (US)
Suppose a very large boat enters a lock carrying a very heavy cargo. The boat fills almost the entire volume of the lock when loaded, so that very little water actually remained in the lock. The lock is closed, and for some reason the boat begins to offload the cargo. As the boat offloads its cargo, could the water level in the lock decrease enough so the boat would touch bottom?
TransAm posted 09-18-2009 10:01 AM ET (US)
How much gas do you use ordering from Netflix?
Tom W Clark posted 09-18-2009 01:12 PM ET (US)
Tony,
I believe I have been a house guest of Archimedes and his wife and have seen the pool in question.
It is with great admiration that I envision the boat floating in said pool with the vast fields of grape vines and mountains as the back drop.
I wish I had a photo...
elaelap posted 09-18-2009 01:38 PM ET (US)
Tom, the Archimedes you visited barely passed high school physics, and needs help from his kids to figure out the TV remote control. Still, he loves--frequently without understanding--math puzzles and physics brainteasers, maybe just to reassure himself that he chose the proper, non-scientific career path.
Tony
elaelap posted 09-18-2009 02:06 PM ET (US)
In fact, Tom, the Archimedes you're talking about, like Shakespeare's Brutus, has a limited mind which, "Like to a little kingdom, suffers then / The nature of an insurrection" when confronted by much of the physical universe. Still and all, for some reason which Sacher-Masoch would understand, he loves these kind of puzzles, and the current thread was inspired by jimh's brainteaser over in the Performance forum regarding the effect of current on an outboard motor's rpm's.
Tony
Tom W Clark posted 09-18-2009 02:14 PM ET (US)
Tony -- Are you telling me did *not* launch your boat into your swimming pool? You have a very indulgent wife and I would not have put it past you.
I'm kinda disappointed now :-(
pglein posted 09-18-2009 02:17 PM ET (US)
I don't know, ask this guy:
http://mcrapu.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/under_water_car.jpg
Truthfully, the answer is that the level in the pool would never significantly change. I would imagine most modern pools have overflow drains, and automatically refill from the municipal source when the water level drops.
Tohsgib posted 09-18-2009 03:14 PM ET (US)
Since Tony does NOT own a Mercury, I don't think he is the person in question. ;)
Stevebaz posted 09-21-2009 01:52 PM ET (US)
We need to know the compression ratio on the motor and how many cylinders were open to water ingress and how many cylinders the motor has. Concrete or plastic lined pool.
ratherwhalering posted 09-21-2009 11:38 PM ET (US)
Please tell me you are not going to try this with your sailboat, Tony.
DLee posted 09-22-2009 12:16 PM ET (US)
'False, because a banana is this yellow.'
'Penny in Pool'
http://dennislee.smugmug.com/Photography/DL-Personal-Collection/2516942_6Z2Af#132184689_Wm3RH-A-LB

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Author	Topic: Archimedes' Montauk
elaelap	posted 09-18-2009 12:56 AM ET (US) One day Archimedes, a bright but lazy fellow, got the idea of removing marine growth from the bottom of his Montauk by launching it in his clorinated swimming pool and letting it drift around there for a couple of days. It seemed to work okay--the barnacles loosened up and, one by one, sank to the bottom of the pool. "This is great," said the old man. "Now I'll run the motor for five or ten minutes to give it a nice fresh water flush." Well, try as hard as he could, Archimedes couldn't get the double-damned outboard--manufacturer's name unknown or unreported, but many of us here can guess--to start. Disgusted with the thing, Archimedes (a very strong lazy old man indeed), unbolted it and, standing in his boat, hurled it toward the edge of the pool. Whoops! Not strong enough...the motor plunged into the pool and swiftly sank to the bottom. Archimedes, being who he was, pondered the following questions: 1. While the motor was flying through the air, and disregarding the downward thrust caused by my effort to throw the motor upwards, did the water level in the pool increase, stay the same, or get lower? 2. When the motor fell back into the pool and sank to the bottom, was the water level the same as when the motor was bolted on my Montauk's transom, lower, or higher? 3. And what about them barnacles...? Tony
RLSmith	posted 09-18-2009 01:10 AM ET (US) Not sure whether we are supposed to answer or just ponder. 1. The volume of water displaced by the boat decreases when the motor is thrown in the air. So the pool water level would decrease. 2. When the motor sinks in the pool it displaces less water volume than the equivalent water weight required to float the motor when bolted to the boat transom. Otherwise the motor would float when thrown into the pool. Therefore the pool water level is lower when the motor is on the bottom of the pool, than on the boat transom. 3. Likewise with the barnacles. If they sink to the bottom they must be heavier than the water they displace. So the water level will be lower when the barnacles are on the bottom of the pool than when they are on the boat.
deepwater	posted 09-18-2009 06:16 AM ET (US) how deep is the pool? ^@^
Jefecinco	posted 09-18-2009 09:29 AM ET (US) What was the water temperature? Celsius only please. What was the water's PH? What was the specific humidity? We can work this out. Butch
Buckda	posted 09-18-2009 09:33 AM ET (US) Tony - Don't put your Whalers in your pool. #1 - it's Whaler Abuse (like caging a wild animal) #2 - your neighbors will think you're losing (more of) your mind In the words of your current governor as the "Terminator" in T-3: "Don't.....do that." :)
jimh	posted 09-18-2009 09:43 AM ET (US) Suppose a very large boat enters a lock carrying a very heavy cargo. The boat fills almost the entire volume of the lock when loaded, so that very little water actually remained in the lock. The lock is closed, and for some reason the boat begins to offload the cargo. As the boat offloads its cargo, could the water level in the lock decrease enough so the boat would touch bottom?
TransAm	posted 09-18-2009 10:01 AM ET (US) How much gas do you use ordering from Netflix?
Tom W Clark	posted 09-18-2009 01:12 PM ET (US) Tony, I believe I have been a house guest of Archimedes and his wife and have seen the pool in question. It is with great admiration that I envision the boat floating in said pool with the vast fields of grape vines and mountains as the back drop. I wish I had a photo...
elaelap	posted 09-18-2009 01:38 PM ET (US) Tom, the Archimedes you visited barely passed high school physics, and needs help from his kids to figure out the TV remote control. Still, he loves--frequently without understanding--math puzzles and physics brainteasers, maybe just to reassure himself that he chose the proper, non-scientific career path. Tony
elaelap	posted 09-18-2009 02:06 PM ET (US) In fact, Tom, the Archimedes you're talking about, like Shakespeare's Brutus, has a limited mind which, "Like to a little kingdom, suffers then / The nature of an insurrection" when confronted by much of the physical universe. Still and all, for some reason which Sacher-Masoch would understand, he loves these kind of puzzles, and the current thread was inspired by jimh's brainteaser over in the Performance forum regarding the effect of current on an outboard motor's rpm's. Tony
Tom W Clark	posted 09-18-2009 02:14 PM ET (US) Tony -- Are you telling me did not launch your boat into your swimming pool? You have a very indulgent wife and I would not have put it past you. I'm kinda disappointed now :-(
pglein	posted 09-18-2009 02:17 PM ET (US) I don't know, ask this guy: http://mcrapu.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/under_water_car.jpg Truthfully, the answer is that the level in the pool would never significantly change. I would imagine most modern pools have overflow drains, and automatically refill from the municipal source when the water level drops.
Tohsgib	posted 09-18-2009 03:14 PM ET (US) Since Tony does NOT own a Mercury, I don't think he is the person in question. ;)
Stevebaz	posted 09-21-2009 01:52 PM ET (US) We need to know the compression ratio on the motor and how many cylinders were open to water ingress and how many cylinders the motor has. Concrete or plastic lined pool.
ratherwhalering	posted 09-21-2009 11:38 PM ET (US) Please tell me you are not going to try this with your sailboat, Tony.
DLee	posted 09-22-2009 12:16 PM ET (US) 'False, because a banana is this yellow.' 'Penny in Pool' http://dennislee.smugmug.com/Photography/DL-Personal-Collection/2516942_6Z2Af#132184689_Wm3RH-A-LB