Stencil Number Information for Tax Collector

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Author Topic:   Stencil Number Information for Tax Collector

floridaskater posted 10-09-2009 09:28 AM ET (US)
Can someone point me to a link on CW or elsewhere that states the serial numbers on older whalers were stenciled on with paint? To me this was common knowledge. To our local Tax Collector, it is not.
They turned me around today from getting my new used 1969 Sport 13 titled. She said, "all boats have an embossed plate that you can stencil with a paper and pencil". I explained old whalers had white painted on serial numbers. She insinuated that I painted it on there myself.
If I had a website page I could print off explaining this fact I think she would take it.
It's Friday...why does this feel like a Monday morning moment. Anyone got a scotch? As they say, it's five oclock somewhere. Our government dollars at work.
Newtauk1 posted 10-09-2009 09:49 AM ET (US)
I believe the requirement for the HIN # started in Nov. of 1972. I do not know if this helps you. Your local regulations may differ.
number9 posted 10-09-2009 09:49 AM ET (US)
Here is a link to the FAQs in the Reference section.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/
The stencil number is not the same as a HIN.
Remember years ago Florida issued me a HIN number for a boat manufactured prior to 1972. I made a small aluminum plate, stamped the HIN and riveted to the hull.
Newtauk1 posted 10-09-2009 09:52 AM ET (US)
Get yourself some small font adhesive letters and numbers. Stick them on a strip of cardboard and stencil it. They wll not know where it came from.
floridaskater posted 10-09-2009 10:16 AM ET (US)
Newtauk, that's good, I like that.
frontier posted 10-09-2009 10:25 AM ET (US)
Sounds like you got a crabby agent on a power trip.
Can you go to a different licensing office?
In our state (Washington) each county courthouse has a licensing department and we have private small business agents that can do it also.
A picture of the stenciled on number is what they require here.
jimp posted 10-09-2009 10:33 AM ET (US)
Show him the last picture in Cetecea page 82 - Dutch Harbor Whaler. A 1971 13-ftr.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage82.html
Stencil Number 2A5172
Thirtyfive years of service have not erased the hull's stencil number. This view also shows details of the original wire rope steering system. Those pulleys and the engine fitting are themselves worth a trip to Dutch Harbor!
But Number9 mentioned, maybe Florida put a state requirement on it and you have state laws you have to follow.
Doing a quick search on Florida hull numbers, several sites mention:

Hull Identification Number (HIN)
The Hull Identification Number (HIN) is a unique, 12-digit number assigned by the manufacturer to vessels built after 1972.
JimP
Tom W Clark posted 10-09-2009 10:45 AM ET (US)
The Stenciled Serial Number (not the HIN) used on Boston Whalers from the very beginning in 1958 is NOT painted on the hull. It is molded into the hull with gel coat.
Th Stenciled Number is applied to the hull mold with gel coat before the hull is laid up in the mold, thus the hull is molded *around* the gel coated Stenciled Serial Number. That is why they are so durable.
The only way to remove the Stenciled Serial Number from a Whaler hull is to grind off all the gel coat in the area of the Stenciled Number which will usually result in the surrounding gel coat disappearing too and the underlying laminates being exposed.
Buckda posted 10-09-2009 11:23 AM ET (US)
The tax collector was probably born after 1972. Find an old-timer in the office that is getting ready to retire. He/she probably remembers the 70's when there were many of these pre-1972 boats (of all makes) being registered each year.
One more (of a million daily) examples of why GOVERNMENT is not a very efficient nor effective machine for day-to-day things. Pretty much justice, national/state defense, and protection of rights...
the1jonc posted 10-09-2009 01:03 PM ET (US)
If all she needs is the imprint of the serial # go to Home Depot, buy the stick-on letters, paste them on a piece of cardboard and take an etching. Sounds like you are in NJ . . .
2manyboats posted 10-09-2009 02:32 PM ET (US)
It sounds like they want an imprint of your hull number by rubbing the side of your pencil lead over a piece of paper laid over the hull number. This works well with numbers in the fiberglass and if the number is stamped on a metal plate attached to the hull. I have had to do this with several boats over the years. There were a few years that whaler only stamped some of the numbers in the plate and some were painted or small decals and these will not transfer to paper. The one we had that would not transfer, they accepted a picture. As for the statement about all boats having a HIN, if you take whalers out of the picture there are probably very few pre 72 boats left.
L H G posted 10-09-2009 03:08 PM ET (US)
My 1971 Ribside 21 is hull #132, gelcoated into the transom splashwell as Tom indicates as 00132. I remember being surprised when I looked at the seller's title that this is also the H.I.N. number of the boat, simply shown as 00132.
My 1975 Outrage 19, hull #750, has a more common H.I.N. number plate, and does not use the stenciled number, which you can see here in the lower left of the photo, on the hull step, #000750
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2019/?action=view& current=Scan0007.jpg .
The console shown, incidentally, is the original "winged" center console, including steering, only with updated solid teak instrument panels.
contender posted 10-09-2009 03:55 PM ET (US)
Floridaskater, You are dealing with an idiot government person with no common sence, so you have to play the game... Go to your local police dept. with your boat, have a prewitten letter to the fact that this is your serial number and your boat, have the officer sign the letter and give it to the tax collector. They can not refuse this method... I use to have to do this with cars that I imported...good luck
deepwater posted 10-09-2009 07:21 PM ET (US)
In all the years that boat has been around you cant find one place it was registered before??
number9 posted 10-10-2009 12:20 AM ET (US)
FYI,
The 1969 vessel I had registered in Florida in 1986 had been previously registered and titled in Maryland.
At that time they had no problem with the paper work but did issue the boat a HIN which was a requirement to register a boat in Florida then and probably now. A similar process is required when registering a home built boat in most states today.
You may even have to explain to the clerk what is required if they have never done a registration like that before.

R T M posted 10-10-2009 07:37 AM ET (US)
Explain to your tax collector clerk that prior to 1972, no boats anywhere in the USA were required to have Hin #s or any ID#s at all attached or embedded onto the hull. Ask to see a supervisor if the clerk disputes you.
Florida is not a difficult state to title a boat. Last month I just titled a 1959 Sea Fury(a little known boat builder for only about 3 years.) There were no ID#s on the hull, no registration #s and I did not even have a title. I told them that the previous owner owned the boat for about 20 years, and the boat was never titled. They asked me to get a notarized bill of sale from the owner stating this, which I did. They gave me a new title, and issued me ID#s, and registration #s. They also said that their main concern was people trying to register stolen boats, hence there asking me for a notarized bill of sale stating how long the owner owned the boat.
I would take a picture of your boats ID number, which was not even required in 1969, and explain to the clerk the boat was built prior to 1972. If you have a title(which I didn`t have in my case) for this boat it will have the date of manufacture. You just need to make the clerk aware of the law which they can easilly look up. I don`t see any problems for you.
Let us know how it turns out.
rich/Binkie

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Author	Topic: Stencil Number Information for Tax Collector
floridaskater	posted 10-09-2009 09:28 AM ET (US) Can someone point me to a link on CW or elsewhere that states the serial numbers on older whalers were stenciled on with paint? To me this was common knowledge. To our local Tax Collector, it is not. They turned me around today from getting my new used 1969 Sport 13 titled. She said, "all boats have an embossed plate that you can stencil with a paper and pencil". I explained old whalers had white painted on serial numbers. She insinuated that I painted it on there myself. If I had a website page I could print off explaining this fact I think she would take it. It's Friday...why does this feel like a Monday morning moment. Anyone got a scotch? As they say, it's five oclock somewhere. Our government dollars at work.
Newtauk1	posted 10-09-2009 09:49 AM ET (US) I believe the requirement for the HIN # started in Nov. of 1972. I do not know if this helps you. Your local regulations may differ.
number9	posted 10-09-2009 09:49 AM ET (US) Here is a link to the FAQs in the Reference section. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/ The stencil number is not the same as a HIN. Remember years ago Florida issued me a HIN number for a boat manufactured prior to 1972. I made a small aluminum plate, stamped the HIN and riveted to the hull.
Newtauk1	posted 10-09-2009 09:52 AM ET (US) Get yourself some small font adhesive letters and numbers. Stick them on a strip of cardboard and stencil it. They wll not know where it came from.
floridaskater	posted 10-09-2009 10:16 AM ET (US) Newtauk, that's good, I like that.
frontier	posted 10-09-2009 10:25 AM ET (US) Sounds like you got a crabby agent on a power trip. Can you go to a different licensing office? In our state (Washington) each county courthouse has a licensing department and we have private small business agents that can do it also. A picture of the stenciled on number is what they require here.
jimp	posted 10-09-2009 10:33 AM ET (US) Show him the last picture in Cetecea page 82 - Dutch Harbor Whaler. A 1971 13-ftr. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage82.html Stencil Number 2A5172 Thirtyfive years of service have not erased the hull's stencil number. This view also shows details of the original wire rope steering system. Those pulleys and the engine fitting are themselves worth a trip to Dutch Harbor! But Number9 mentioned, maybe Florida put a state requirement on it and you have state laws you have to follow. Doing a quick search on Florida hull numbers, several sites mention: Hull Identification Number (HIN) The Hull Identification Number (HIN) is a unique, 12-digit number assigned by the manufacturer to vessels built after 1972. JimP
Tom W Clark	posted 10-09-2009 10:45 AM ET (US) The Stenciled Serial Number (not the HIN) used on Boston Whalers from the very beginning in 1958 is NOT painted on the hull. It is molded into the hull with gel coat. Th Stenciled Number is applied to the hull mold with gel coat before the hull is laid up in the mold, thus the hull is molded around the gel coated Stenciled Serial Number. That is why they are so durable. The only way to remove the Stenciled Serial Number from a Whaler hull is to grind off all the gel coat in the area of the Stenciled Number which will usually result in the surrounding gel coat disappearing too and the underlying laminates being exposed.
Buckda	posted 10-09-2009 11:23 AM ET (US) The tax collector was probably born after 1972. Find an old-timer in the office that is getting ready to retire. He/she probably remembers the 70's when there were many of these pre-1972 boats (of all makes) being registered each year. One more (of a million daily) examples of why GOVERNMENT is not a very efficient nor effective machine for day-to-day things. Pretty much justice, national/state defense, and protection of rights...
the1jonc	posted 10-09-2009 01:03 PM ET (US) If all she needs is the imprint of the serial # go to Home Depot, buy the stick-on letters, paste them on a piece of cardboard and take an etching. Sounds like you are in NJ . . .
2manyboats	posted 10-09-2009 02:32 PM ET (US) It sounds like they want an imprint of your hull number by rubbing the side of your pencil lead over a piece of paper laid over the hull number. This works well with numbers in the fiberglass and if the number is stamped on a metal plate attached to the hull. I have had to do this with several boats over the years. There were a few years that whaler only stamped some of the numbers in the plate and some were painted or small decals and these will not transfer to paper. The one we had that would not transfer, they accepted a picture. As for the statement about all boats having a HIN, if you take whalers out of the picture there are probably very few pre 72 boats left.
L H G	posted 10-09-2009 03:08 PM ET (US) My 1971 Ribside 21 is hull #132, gelcoated into the transom splashwell as Tom indicates as 00132. I remember being surprised when I looked at the seller's title that this is also the H.I.N. number of the boat, simply shown as 00132. My 1975 Outrage 19, hull #750, has a more common H.I.N. number plate, and does not use the stenciled number, which you can see here in the lower left of the photo, on the hull step, #000750 http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2019/?action=view& current=Scan0007.jpg . The console shown, incidentally, is the original "winged" center console, including steering, only with updated solid teak instrument panels.
contender	posted 10-09-2009 03:55 PM ET (US) Floridaskater, You are dealing with an idiot government person with no common sence, so you have to play the game... Go to your local police dept. with your boat, have a prewitten letter to the fact that this is your serial number and your boat, have the officer sign the letter and give it to the tax collector. They can not refuse this method... I use to have to do this with cars that I imported...good luck
deepwater	posted 10-09-2009 07:21 PM ET (US) In all the years that boat has been around you cant find one place it was registered before??
number9	posted 10-10-2009 12:20 AM ET (US) FYI, The 1969 vessel I had registered in Florida in 1986 had been previously registered and titled in Maryland. At that time they had no problem with the paper work but did issue the boat a HIN which was a requirement to register a boat in Florida then and probably now. A similar process is required when registering a home built boat in most states today. You may even have to explain to the clerk what is required if they have never done a registration like that before.
R T M	posted 10-10-2009 07:37 AM ET (US) Explain to your tax collector clerk that prior to 1972, no boats anywhere in the USA were required to have Hin #s or any ID#s at all attached or embedded onto the hull. Ask to see a supervisor if the clerk disputes you. Florida is not a difficult state to title a boat. Last month I just titled a 1959 Sea Fury(a little known boat builder for only about 3 years.) There were no ID#s on the hull, no registration #s and I did not even have a title. I told them that the previous owner owned the boat for about 20 years, and the boat was never titled. They asked me to get a notarized bill of sale from the owner stating this, which I did. They gave me a new title, and issued me ID#s, and registration #s. They also said that their main concern was people trying to register stolen boats, hence there asking me for a notarized bill of sale stating how long the owner owned the boat. I would take a picture of your boats ID number, which was not even required in 1969, and explain to the clerk the boat was built prior to 1972. If you have a title(which I didn`t have in my case) for this boat it will have the date of manufacture. You just need to make the clerk aware of the law which they can easilly look up. I don`t see any problems for you. Let us know how it turns out. rich/Binkie