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Author Topic:   Dealer or Factory Direct

delawareriverrat posted 10-27-2009 09:48 AM ET (US)
I was on the hull truth yesterday and I was reading about a guy who said he recently purchased a Parker factory direct and that he had heard Grady White has been considering doing the same thing. Being a "Whaler guy" I thought I would bring the topic over to this website to get feedback on what your feelings would be if they were to do something like this direclty from Boston Whaler.
I am about to make a move into my first "larger" Whaler (a 220 or 250 Outrage) and I though this was interesting as cost always crosses my mind. Just in my opinion it wouldnt work because of the very wide model selection Whaler offers and I am sure they do much more in terms of volume sales nationally. I do think it would eliminate some extra costs to the consumer but then customer service would go right down the drain. I can just imagine my boat breaking down in July and then being laid up for the rest of the summer as I wait for the factory to address my issue. I dont like the idea at all. I think boats have to be bought from dealers, I think there is an amazing value in having a good local dealer to take care of me. I dont know how you guys would feel about this. I just dont think its a good idea. I think its a sign that Parker and Grady White are starting to see desperate times and are taking desperate measures just to stay in business. I am happy not to see this happening with Boston Whaler and it makes me even more proud to be associated with a stable brand name. I know we all pay a little more for our boats but the support Whaler gives me is great. By the way, does anyone even know if this is true about Grady or Parker? I know you cant always believe everything you hear
Feejer posted 10-27-2009 10:58 AM ET (US)
I would love to see it. Order what you want online, save a few grand drive down to pick it up.
Yes, it is true about Parker and Grady.........from what I've heard.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 10-27-2009 11:12 AM ET (US)
I'm certain it has taken Whaler decades and great expense to cultivate their dealer relationships and network. To compete in the face of said dealers would no doubt result in the loss of nationwide support and leave some customers isolated.
I don't perceive any advantage to a direct sale channel, especially given lackluster factory customer support as evidenced by some recent posts. I will however pose this question to Whaler at the FTL show this week.
Buckda posted 10-27-2009 11:33 AM ET (US)

quote:
I'm certain it has taken Whaler decades and great expense to cultivate their dealer relationships and network.
Whaler or Brunswick?
My take is that Brunswick forced a lot of loyal Whaler dealerships out when they refused to sell Mercury, or if there was a strong/established Sea Ray dealership in the area.
Whaler_bob posted 10-27-2009 12:04 PM ET (US)
Who knows.... factory direct may result in better overall QC?
Traditionally the factory builds the hull and pre-mounts some items like the center console, etc.., but many other items such as railings, battery boxes, hard tops, and many other optional items are simply tossed in the hull at the factory and left up to the dealer to install. Some dealers are more meticulous than others when rigging due to staff turnover, high volume, bad weather, etc.
You would think the more items installed at the factory by trained, full time seasoned employees would result in better overall fit and finish. But then again.... who knows?
I wouldn't want to be the one bringing a factory direct boat back to a local dealership with a factory install/rig issue.
delawareriverrat posted 10-28-2009 04:02 PM ET (US)
Across the board I think its better to have a network of selling and servicing dealers. Especially for people not living in the Southeast. We will see how it shakes out with all these boat brands, I like the Whaler dealers I have worked with.
Buckda posted 10-28-2009 04:16 PM ET (US)
For complex and expensive products, dealership networks have historically been a successful sales/distribution model.
Computer makers have had mixed results. Dell was hugely successful selling boxes direct. Gateway and Apple have polar opposite results with a mixed model of direct sales and retail "factory stores" in select markets.
Despite the mixed results of the factory store model for relatively expensive and complex products, I think this may be a potentially successful model for boat distribution as the factor would have direct control over the level of training - mechanical and customer service - for their employees who interact with customers.
For Brunswick, this might work for the boat division, although I think it was a generally failed model for them in the home recreation arena. That failure is likely to color the management's view on the possibility of a similar model for their boat divisions.
Interesting topic.
20dauntless posted 10-28-2009 04:28 PM ET (US)
Dealerships may work great for some people who have excellent dealers nearby. Personally, I've never gone back to the dealer where I've purchased a boat for any service, and frankly I haven't been very impressed with our local BW dealer. If I were buying a new Whaler today I'd say our dealer is a liability rather than an asset. I'd be more likely to buy if I could order directly from the factory.
Whalerdog posted 10-28-2009 06:27 PM ET (US)
Dog eat dog now they are all desperate.I am sure when or if a factory sells a boat direct the dealer in the area gets a check to apease them somewhat. What about franchise laws and sales agreements? Why would a dealer spent thousands to be under cut by the factory?
Sal A posted 10-29-2009 07:00 AM ET (US)
When I had my 205 Conquest with 175 Verado, and I was on the water when fault alarms were being hurled at me like Cliff Lee cutters, it was sure nice to be able to call the cell phone of the owner of my local dealer, and have him talk me through it.
I can only imagine what I would have done if instead I had to call 1-800-Whaler, press 1 to continue in English, enter my hull ID number followed by the pound key, then wait while being told my call was being monitored for quality control purposes, then listen to a computerized rendition of "Undercover Angel", then... :
"Good afternoon this is Raj Smith, and how are you today?"
"Fine thanks. My Verado stopped and wont start. The smartcraft is screaming. As are the kids. There is a thunderstorm approaching, and we just want to get home"
"I am sorry to hear that sir. Rest assured at Pottery Barn... wait... I mean Boston Whaler, we care about your experiences. Can you verify your home address please"
"Sure... 123 16th street, Perth Amboy"
"Ahh this will just take a second. I see you now. So what appears to be the problem?"
"Like I said My engine quit and I want to clear these faults, whatever that means, and get her started up and motor home"
"Ahhh. This will just be a moment. Do you have a Mercury 90 on your 160 Ventura?"
"No, your reading wrong. That was my first Whaler. I am now on a 205 Conquest with a 175 Verado"
"Hold on please"
Undercover Angel, midnight fantasy... I never met a girl, who'd make sweet love to me.... Undercover angel... answer to my prayers... you made..
"Hello sir?"
"Yes? I am still here. That boomer is approaching fast though..."
"Boomer? I thought you had a Verado."
"Nevermind. Please tell me what to do to get moving. There is a shark circling my boat."
"Have you tried rebooting the computer... wait. that's for Dell. Have you tried clearing the fault?"
"I don't how that is why I called you."
"Hold please..."
You... you light up my life.... you give me hope.... to carry on... you light up my....
"Hello sir..."
"Yes"
"I am going to transfer you to the service department."
"Wait am I going to be routed through to a switchboard again?
"No sir. Hold a minute please. And thank you for calling 1800 Whaler. Before I transfer you is there anything else I can do for you sir?"
"Doesnt saying anything else imply that you already did something for me to begin with?"
"Hold please"
I feel the earth.... move.... under my feet....

Capisc?
Feejer posted 10-29-2009 07:19 AM ET (US)
Sal
I here where your coming from. However it's kind of scary to think 90% of the time I get better info from CW and the Verado Club than from the dealer.
Buckda posted 10-29-2009 07:20 AM ET (US)
Sal - I'm cryin here! Hilarious.....and a bit sad because it's all so much within the realm of possibility....
I think you'd call the factory store service department directly though.
...but I hear you.
I don't think there is a sustainable model where a company sells direct AND through dealer networks. I think it would be one or the other...
Sal A posted 10-29-2009 07:24 AM ET (US)
Lazlo we are indeed very lucky to have the resources we do. Jim and Glen have provided content-rich resources for sure. I think, however, that the more complicated the product, and especially the more of a luxury the product is, and especially squared the need for the product to be a hassle-free experience for the consumer, the more the product needs a dealer network.
Selling factory direct would work real well for a commoditized product in my opinion. Maybe even a canoe.
Sal A posted 10-29-2009 07:25 AM ET (US)
And Dave.... I am pretty sure Steigercraft sells factory direct and through dealers. But I could be wrong.
wood duck posted 10-29-2009 07:36 AM ET (US)
Does anyone have any experience or knowledge as to how the Mako/Bass Pro arrangement is working out for the Mako owners ?
Buckda posted 10-29-2009 08:02 AM ET (US)
Sal - I never said I endorse the practice. I think that having local dealerships is an important resource for both the factory (feedback, constructive suggestions, etc) and consumer.
But I do understand some companies' desire to have stronger quality control over the ultimate customer's experience.
As I've said before on other topics, the larger a company becomes, the more it starts to act like a quasi government....or if it manages to avoid that, it is generally not set up at all to communicate with end users of their products.
Not all dealerships and dealer networks are created equal. What we recently saw from Brunswick was "corporate interference" in the Boston Whaler dealer network. "independent" dealers across the country lost their Whaler dealerships to legacy Sea Ray dealers; or were faced with the option to start selling other products which they didn't want to sell. Just as the customer has been forced to "take" a Mercury motor with a Boston Whaler, many dealers were forced to choose between carrying Brunswick products that they may not have wanted to sell, or lose their Whaler dealership status.
This kind of interference, while motivated by good intentions, is bound to have a negative effect on customer relations in certain markets where the dealership experience is diminished.
I'll give an example outside the boat world - My mom is a Saturn owner. She bought the Saturn not because of the vehicle quality (although it has been an excellent car for her) but because she trusted the dealer. They do all the service, etc. They wash and vacuum her car every time it gets an oil change or any other service. Sure she pays more than the local wrench, but she bought peace of mind. She's really panicky right now over the demise of the company. Where will she go? She's not a fan of the local Chevrolet dealer, as their "front men" (Sales guys) were really sleazy and turned her off (and led her to Saturn).
The reality is that she will probably sell her Saturn soon, and will probably buy a Honda. Why? Her friend has excellent, ongoing experiences with their sales and service department.
Bad dealer screwed GM (Chevy). Bad company management (Go Big Government) screwed my mom (Closing Saturn). Great dealer is going to sell another car (Go Honda!).
Tough news for this Ford driving, red-blooded boy from the Midwest, but there it is. I bought my second Ford a few years ago because of the experience I had at their Blue Oval dealerships in several cities across the country (for various services performed). Same thing at work.
SO I agree in that I truly believe that dealership networks are a good thing for vehicles, etc. But they may not be the only good model for all companies...
Tohsgib posted 10-29-2009 10:10 AM ET (US)
Unless the dealer starts selling classic desert tan boats pre say 1991 again...don't matter to me at all.
wood duck posted 10-29-2009 01:54 PM ET (US)
Marketing and selling a product or service on a direct basis can work smoothly if the format is simple to execute, ie: McDonald's, Starbuck's, Jiffy Lube, etc. The product or service is consistent,pre- packaged, and can be delivered by relatively low skilled labor. There are few "comebacks", warranty claims, or customer complaints. In this scenario the product or service can be a turnkey franchise or operated directly, or both formats can operate and compete effectively in the same market Contrast this scenario to marketing, selling, staffing, and servicing a major boat brand nationwide. It cannot be done effectively on a direct basis, only my opinion based on many years of experience in the franchise business. A more reasonable solution, albeit a tough one, is to divest the smaller dealerships and enlarge the marketing areas of the remaining and increase corporate focus and support on those long term keepers. The "owner's mentality" gets lost when the dealers are gone and the company takes over.
Basshole posted 11-03-2009 01:05 AM ET (US)
I welcome the Whaler direct idea. But that is because my local dealership is not somewhere I care to do business with. If my local dealership was like Twin Cities Marine I would probably feel differently. I am happy to pay a little more for some good customer service and if I feel they are trustworthy. I still can not believe that a state as large as CA only has two Whaler dealerships. That just means slim choices and really high prices, at least before the recession.

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Author	Topic: Dealer or Factory Direct
delawareriverrat	posted 10-27-2009 09:48 AM ET (US) I was on the hull truth yesterday and I was reading about a guy who said he recently purchased a Parker factory direct and that he had heard Grady White has been considering doing the same thing. Being a "Whaler guy" I thought I would bring the topic over to this website to get feedback on what your feelings would be if they were to do something like this direclty from Boston Whaler. I am about to make a move into my first "larger" Whaler (a 220 or 250 Outrage) and I though this was interesting as cost always crosses my mind. Just in my opinion it wouldnt work because of the very wide model selection Whaler offers and I am sure they do much more in terms of volume sales nationally. I do think it would eliminate some extra costs to the consumer but then customer service would go right down the drain. I can just imagine my boat breaking down in July and then being laid up for the rest of the summer as I wait for the factory to address my issue. I dont like the idea at all. I think boats have to be bought from dealers, I think there is an amazing value in having a good local dealer to take care of me. I dont know how you guys would feel about this. I just dont think its a good idea. I think its a sign that Parker and Grady White are starting to see desperate times and are taking desperate measures just to stay in business. I am happy not to see this happening with Boston Whaler and it makes me even more proud to be associated with a stable brand name. I know we all pay a little more for our boats but the support Whaler gives me is great. By the way, does anyone even know if this is true about Grady or Parker? I know you cant always believe everything you hear
Feejer	posted 10-27-2009 10:58 AM ET (US) I would love to see it. Order what you want online, save a few grand drive down to pick it up. Yes, it is true about Parker and Grady.........from what I've heard.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 10-27-2009 11:12 AM ET (US) I'm certain it has taken Whaler decades and great expense to cultivate their dealer relationships and network. To compete in the face of said dealers would no doubt result in the loss of nationwide support and leave some customers isolated. I don't perceive any advantage to a direct sale channel, especially given lackluster factory customer support as evidenced by some recent posts. I will however pose this question to Whaler at the FTL show this week.
Buckda	posted 10-27-2009 11:33 AM ET (US) quote: I'm certain it has taken Whaler decades and great expense to cultivate their dealer relationships and network. Whaler or Brunswick? My take is that Brunswick forced a lot of loyal Whaler dealerships out when they refused to sell Mercury, or if there was a strong/established Sea Ray dealership in the area.
Whaler_bob	posted 10-27-2009 12:04 PM ET (US) Who knows.... factory direct may result in better overall QC? Traditionally the factory builds the hull and pre-mounts some items like the center console, etc.., but many other items such as railings, battery boxes, hard tops, and many other optional items are simply tossed in the hull at the factory and left up to the dealer to install. Some dealers are more meticulous than others when rigging due to staff turnover, high volume, bad weather, etc. You would think the more items installed at the factory by trained, full time seasoned employees would result in better overall fit and finish. But then again.... who knows? I wouldn't want to be the one bringing a factory direct boat back to a local dealership with a factory install/rig issue.
delawareriverrat	posted 10-28-2009 04:02 PM ET (US) Across the board I think its better to have a network of selling and servicing dealers. Especially for people not living in the Southeast. We will see how it shakes out with all these boat brands, I like the Whaler dealers I have worked with.
Buckda	posted 10-28-2009 04:16 PM ET (US) For complex and expensive products, dealership networks have historically been a successful sales/distribution model. Computer makers have had mixed results. Dell was hugely successful selling boxes direct. Gateway and Apple have polar opposite results with a mixed model of direct sales and retail "factory stores" in select markets. Despite the mixed results of the factory store model for relatively expensive and complex products, I think this may be a potentially successful model for boat distribution as the factor would have direct control over the level of training - mechanical and customer service - for their employees who interact with customers. For Brunswick, this might work for the boat division, although I think it was a generally failed model for them in the home recreation arena. That failure is likely to color the management's view on the possibility of a similar model for their boat divisions. Interesting topic.
20dauntless	posted 10-28-2009 04:28 PM ET (US) Dealerships may work great for some people who have excellent dealers nearby. Personally, I've never gone back to the dealer where I've purchased a boat for any service, and frankly I haven't been very impressed with our local BW dealer. If I were buying a new Whaler today I'd say our dealer is a liability rather than an asset. I'd be more likely to buy if I could order directly from the factory.
Whalerdog	posted 10-28-2009 06:27 PM ET (US) Dog eat dog now they are all desperate.I am sure when or if a factory sells a boat direct the dealer in the area gets a check to apease them somewhat. What about franchise laws and sales agreements? Why would a dealer spent thousands to be under cut by the factory?
Sal A	posted 10-29-2009 07:00 AM ET (US) When I had my 205 Conquest with 175 Verado, and I was on the water when fault alarms were being hurled at me like Cliff Lee cutters, it was sure nice to be able to call the cell phone of the owner of my local dealer, and have him talk me through it. I can only imagine what I would have done if instead I had to call 1-800-Whaler, press 1 to continue in English, enter my hull ID number followed by the pound key, then wait while being told my call was being monitored for quality control purposes, then listen to a computerized rendition of "Undercover Angel", then... : "Good afternoon this is Raj Smith, and how are you today?" "Fine thanks. My Verado stopped and wont start. The smartcraft is screaming. As are the kids. There is a thunderstorm approaching, and we just want to get home" "I am sorry to hear that sir. Rest assured at Pottery Barn... wait... I mean Boston Whaler, we care about your experiences. Can you verify your home address please" "Sure... 123 16th street, Perth Amboy" "Ahh this will just take a second. I see you now. So what appears to be the problem?" "Like I said My engine quit and I want to clear these faults, whatever that means, and get her started up and motor home" "Ahhh. This will just be a moment. Do you have a Mercury 90 on your 160 Ventura?" "No, your reading wrong. That was my first Whaler. I am now on a 205 Conquest with a 175 Verado" "Hold on please" Undercover Angel, midnight fantasy... I never met a girl, who'd make sweet love to me.... Undercover angel... answer to my prayers... you made.. "Hello sir?" "Yes? I am still here. That boomer is approaching fast though..." "Boomer? I thought you had a Verado." "Nevermind. Please tell me what to do to get moving. There is a shark circling my boat." "Have you tried rebooting the computer... wait. that's for Dell. Have you tried clearing the fault?" "I don't how that is why I called you." "Hold please..." You... you light up my life.... you give me hope.... to carry on... you light up my.... "Hello sir..." "Yes" "I am going to transfer you to the service department." "Wait am I going to be routed through to a switchboard again? "No sir. Hold a minute please. And thank you for calling 1800 Whaler. Before I transfer you is there anything else I can do for you sir?" "Doesnt saying anything else imply that you already did something for me to begin with?" "Hold please" I feel the earth.... move.... under my feet.... Capisc?
Feejer	posted 10-29-2009 07:19 AM ET (US) Sal I here where your coming from. However it's kind of scary to think 90% of the time I get better info from CW and the Verado Club than from the dealer.
Buckda	posted 10-29-2009 07:20 AM ET (US) Sal - I'm cryin here! Hilarious.....and a bit sad because it's all so much within the realm of possibility.... I think you'd call the factory store service department directly though. ...but I hear you. I don't think there is a sustainable model where a company sells direct AND through dealer networks. I think it would be one or the other...
Sal A	posted 10-29-2009 07:24 AM ET (US) Lazlo we are indeed very lucky to have the resources we do. Jim and Glen have provided content-rich resources for sure. I think, however, that the more complicated the product, and especially the more of a luxury the product is, and especially squared the need for the product to be a hassle-free experience for the consumer, the more the product needs a dealer network. Selling factory direct would work real well for a commoditized product in my opinion. Maybe even a canoe.
Sal A	posted 10-29-2009 07:25 AM ET (US) And Dave.... I am pretty sure Steigercraft sells factory direct and through dealers. But I could be wrong.
wood duck	posted 10-29-2009 07:36 AM ET (US) Does anyone have any experience or knowledge as to how the Mako/Bass Pro arrangement is working out for the Mako owners ?
Buckda	posted 10-29-2009 08:02 AM ET (US) Sal - I never said I endorse the practice. I think that having local dealerships is an important resource for both the factory (feedback, constructive suggestions, etc) and consumer. But I do understand some companies' desire to have stronger quality control over the ultimate customer's experience. As I've said before on other topics, the larger a company becomes, the more it starts to act like a quasi government....or if it manages to avoid that, it is generally not set up at all to communicate with end users of their products. Not all dealerships and dealer networks are created equal. What we recently saw from Brunswick was "corporate interference" in the Boston Whaler dealer network. "independent" dealers across the country lost their Whaler dealerships to legacy Sea Ray dealers; or were faced with the option to start selling other products which they didn't want to sell. Just as the customer has been forced to "take" a Mercury motor with a Boston Whaler, many dealers were forced to choose between carrying Brunswick products that they may not have wanted to sell, or lose their Whaler dealership status. This kind of interference, while motivated by good intentions, is bound to have a negative effect on customer relations in certain markets where the dealership experience is diminished. I'll give an example outside the boat world - My mom is a Saturn owner. She bought the Saturn not because of the vehicle quality (although it has been an excellent car for her) but because she trusted the dealer. They do all the service, etc. They wash and vacuum her car every time it gets an oil change or any other service. Sure she pays more than the local wrench, but she bought peace of mind. She's really panicky right now over the demise of the company. Where will she go? She's not a fan of the local Chevrolet dealer, as their "front men" (Sales guys) were really sleazy and turned her off (and led her to Saturn). The reality is that she will probably sell her Saturn soon, and will probably buy a Honda. Why? Her friend has excellent, ongoing experiences with their sales and service department. Bad dealer screwed GM (Chevy). Bad company management (Go Big Government) screwed my mom (Closing Saturn). Great dealer is going to sell another car (Go Honda!). Tough news for this Ford driving, red-blooded boy from the Midwest, but there it is. I bought my second Ford a few years ago because of the experience I had at their Blue Oval dealerships in several cities across the country (for various services performed). Same thing at work. SO I agree in that I truly believe that dealership networks are a good thing for vehicles, etc. But they may not be the only good model for all companies...
Tohsgib	posted 10-29-2009 10:10 AM ET (US) Unless the dealer starts selling classic desert tan boats pre say 1991 again...don't matter to me at all.
wood duck	posted 10-29-2009 01:54 PM ET (US) Marketing and selling a product or service on a direct basis can work smoothly if the format is simple to execute, ie: McDonald's, Starbuck's, Jiffy Lube, etc. The product or service is consistent,pre- packaged, and can be delivered by relatively low skilled labor. There are few "comebacks", warranty claims, or customer complaints. In this scenario the product or service can be a turnkey franchise or operated directly, or both formats can operate and compete effectively in the same market Contrast this scenario to marketing, selling, staffing, and servicing a major boat brand nationwide. It cannot be done effectively on a direct basis, only my opinion based on many years of experience in the franchise business. A more reasonable solution, albeit a tough one, is to divest the smaller dealerships and enlarge the marketing areas of the remaining and increase corporate focus and support on those long term keepers. The "owner's mentality" gets lost when the dealers are gone and the company takes over.
Basshole	posted 11-03-2009 01:05 AM ET (US) I welcome the Whaler direct idea. But that is because my local dealership is not somewhere I care to do business with. If my local dealership was like Twin Cities Marine I would probably feel differently. I am happy to pay a little more for some good customer service and if I feel they are trustworthy. I still can not believe that a state as large as CA only has two Whaler dealerships. That just means slim choices and really high prices, at least before the recession.