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Author Topic:   Boat Canvas Terminology

TommyWhaler posted 12-07-2009 05:46 PM ET (US)
What is the correct term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama. It is bubble shaped and has a plastic windshield like on the console. Thanks,
Tommy
TransAm posted 12-07-2009 05:48 PM ET (US)
Dodger
Tom W Clark posted 12-07-2009 07:11 PM ET (US)
Forward Shelter
R T M posted 12-07-2009 07:21 PM ET (US)
Dodger--Common name on East Coast
Forward shelter-- Used by Whaler dealers
rich/Binkie
jimh posted 12-07-2009 08:18 PM ET (US)
One of the early catalogues of Boston Whaler contained a series of sketches which illustrated all of the weather canvas accessories available, principally made by the Wm. J. Mills & Co. of Greenport, New York. The terminology used by Whaler and Mills for these canvas components is the accepted terminology for these products on a Boston Whaler boat.
number9 posted 12-07-2009 08:38 PM ET (US)
Was there a dodger option at the time the forward shelter was first available?
Bill
BlueMax posted 12-08-2009 05:20 AM ET (US)
The Dodgers moved to L.A. about 40 years ago.....
JimH - I'm glad BW and WJ Mills have agreed on terminology - the question however asks what is that correct terminology - your response is like asking someone's real name and being told that it's on their birth cert because it was accepted as such by their parents when they were born. Yeah, Okay..... but what is the name?
jimh posted 12-08-2009 09:29 AM ET (US)
The Boston Whaler canvas system is illustrated in the 1980 catalogue and shows optional canvas for most models that includes some or all of:
--Flying Top
--Sun Top
--Forward Shelter
--Windscreen
--Side Curtain
--Drop Curtain
--Aft Curtain
Tom W Clark posted 12-08-2009 10:31 AM ET (US)
The question was: "What is the correct term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama?"
The answer is Forward Shelter.
The question was NOT: What is another term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama?
Now was it: "What is a common East Coast term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama?"
The question was simple enough and the answer is what Whaler chose to call it. Forward Shelter. It is a good descriptive term.
The term "dodger", which is equally common on the West Coast as the East Coast, is a less specific term.
The Flying Top and the Windshield also form a dodger, so if you describe the "dodger" on your Katama, it is ambiguous. You could be referring to the Forward Shelter, the Flying Top and Windshield or the entire weather canvas system, and all would be correct.
If you say Forward Shelter, everybody in the Whaler world knows exactly what you are referring too and those unfamiliar with the Whaler world will figure it out pretty quickly without an entire thread discussing what a part, that Whaler has already named, should be called.
It is really very simple, like my name, Tom. People always make things more complicated and assume my name is Thomas. People call me Thomas all the time...but my correct name is Tom.
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 10:34 AM ET (US)
So it appears that the correct term as used by Boston Whaler would be Forward Shelter. I had reason to call my local canvas shop this morning to see if the repairs to my Mills mooring cover were complete and asked if they could make me a Forward Shelter for a small Whaler. They said "you mean a Dodger?"
You say Toe-mah-toe, I say Toe-may-toe.....
gnr posted 12-08-2009 10:52 AM ET (US)
Geeze 'Tom',
You're giving jimh a run for his money here.
Calm down, it'll be ok.
btw
I've always heard and used "dodger" to decribe that particular unit.
Now is this can of soft drink here a soda or a pop?
LOL
How about that long sandwich? A Sub or a grinder?
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 12:11 PM ET (US)
I don't think either term is particularly descriptive, except perhaps to Boston Whaler, who seem to prefer the term Forward Shelter, and have OEM equipment specifically for Whalers made by a specific canvas fabricator, Wm. J. Mills & Co. This is unique for Boston Whaler.
Forward Shelter to me means something forward of the helm that provides some form of cover. Does it have a window...maybe; metal supports...probably. Same could be said for a dodger. The terms, outside of Boston Whaler/Mills Canvass circles are interchangable with regional preferences. My local canvas shop has big letters on their shop window spelling "Dodgers" among other things they fabricate.
But the technically correct term for a Boston Whaler Katima is Forward Shelter.
Tom W Clark posted 12-08-2009 12:29 PM ET (US)
Joe -- There is no such thing as a Katima. It's Katama.
;-)
Tohsgib posted 12-08-2009 12:51 PM ET (US)
I will say that Dodger is the term used in FL(never heard of it before I moved here). I will also say that a forward shelter can/is connected to the sun top or flying top with eisenglass, etc. In FL the "dodgers" are not connected.
Now with that all being said. What is the correct terminology for that piece of canvas that is above your head supported by poles that can fold down? Is it a Sun top, Flying top or Bimini top? I bet you call 95% of any canvas joints and ask for a flying top and they will tell you to go take a flying....
Forward shelter = Dodger to most.
Bimini is worldwide universal and I bet most would understand a "sun top" but a Flying top is Mills/Whaler related or antiquated.
tjxtreme posted 12-08-2009 01:35 PM ET (US)
I think it depends on how "correct" is defined. Most commonly used? Used by a specific manufacturer? I think that since the dodger/shelter transcends all boat types Whaler wouldn't necessarily dictate the proper usage.
If we accept internet hits as a suitable proxy for real world usage, then we get the following results:
Search terms-
whaler dodger: 102,000
whaler "forward shelter": 1,100
Results: "dodger" used 92 times more frequently when talking about whalers)
boat dodger: 589,000
whaler "forward shelter": 1,220
Results: "dodger" used 482 times more frequently when talking about boats in general
(all data from Google as of December 8, 2009)
Dodger is clearly the more widely used term, and that's what I'll use. If you want to stick to the less widely used term, but the one that is used by Whaler itself, then go with "forward shelter."
rslsail posted 12-08-2009 02:13 PM ET (US)
We are talking about Whalers, Whaler calls it a 'Forward Shelter', so why would you not use that terminology?
Americans call soccer 'soccer', the rest of the world calls it 'Football', seems to me if you're talking to an American you'd say soccer. Same concept fellas, speak the language that is going to get your point accross with the least amount of pain so as to avoid, for example, keeping a thread from going on for pages unneccessarily.
If you're talking about a Whaler and Whaler, in its literature, calls it a 'forward shelter' then you should too. On my sailboat I have a dodger, if I called it a forward shelter no one would know what I was talking about even if its the same thing, know your audience.
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 02:43 PM ET (US)
Tom---I realized my spelling error after I posted my article. However, in accordance with the registration terms suggesting:

quote:
...It is not necessary to post follow-up articles correcting minor errors in the original submission unless crucial for proper comprehension.
It seems you understood my meaning, as I'm sure all other did as well. But thanks again for being technically correct, I think. :o)
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 02:51 PM ET (US)

quote:
We are talking about Whalers, Whaler calls it a 'Forward Shelter', so why would you not use that terminology?

This would apply only if you were talking Whalers to Mills Canvas. If you go to a custom canvas shop as many of us do, I would think the term most widely recognized would be more appropriate.
For instance, if your were talking soccer to a recent immigrant from Brazil here in the US, would you insist on calling Football Soccer, or would you call it Football so the immigrant could understand you?

gnr posted 12-08-2009 02:55 PM ET (US)
What would Tom say?
Tom W Clark posted 12-08-2009 02:58 PM ET (US)
Joe -- That refers to posting follow-ups to your own posts, not others.
Seriously, you guys need to lighten up. Apparently not only am I not supposed to tease you, but I can't even make fun of myself either?
rslsail posted 12-08-2009 03:45 PM ET (US)
TA, I have used Mills and other canvas shops. For both Whaler and non Whaler canvas. Personally, if I went into a canvas shop and they were not familiar with Whalers and were at a complete loss when I told them about a front shelter for a Boston Whaler and they had absolutely no idea whatsoever what I was talking about and were unable to discern what I needed with one or two questions, I think I would find another canvas shop.
rslsail posted 12-08-2009 03:47 PM ET (US)
Also living local and knowing Mills my whole life, I think I could find many people willing to argue that Mills is one of the finest custom canvas shops in the world LOL
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 04:38 PM ET (US)
rls--making a quality dodger for a Whaler is no different than making one for a Grady White. With Mills, however, you are limited to the specific one they make for your model. This is both good and bad. It is good in a sense that you could pick up the phone and order products off the shelf so to speak (I suspect Mills stocks some items while make-to-order others) that should fit your Whaler reasonably well, built from quality products. A custom shop can make the dodger fit exactly the way you want, and many prefer to place their boat directly in the hands of the canvas shop to endure a proper fit. Lets say you sit low at the helm and their pre-designed shelter blocks your view when underway and deployed. A custom shop could easily adjust the profile to accommodate the specifics of your boat.
I have no doubt Mills is a quality product. And there is also not doubt you would have argument from others that they build the finest canvas.
I would agree, though, if a canvas shop, after hearing of you plans for a forward shelter or "dodger", had no idea what you were talking about that they should be avoided.
jimh posted 12-08-2009 07:35 PM ET (US)
On a boat the term "dodger" is usually a shorten form of "spray dodger." You can rig a spray dodger in many locations. On sailboats with aft cockpits it is common to have a spray dodger rigged around the companionway hatch. These devices are not the same as a Boston Whaler forward shelter.
As Tom notes, the arrangement of the Boston Whaler Windscreen could be considered a spray dodger on other boats.
The terminology Forward Shelter may be specific to Boston Whaler, but that only makes it more appropriate to use when describing a feature of a Boston Whaler. I suspect that in arriving at the nomenclature of the Boston Whaler canvas system, Dick Fisher probably had his say about what to call it. If he wanted to call the collapsing canvas and framework that creates weather protection for the forward area of the boat a dodger instead of a Forward Shelter, I am sure he would have done it.
jimh posted 12-08-2009 08:00 PM ET (US)
rslsail writes:
"Also living local and knowing Mills my whole life, I think I could find many people willing to argue that Mills is one of the finest custom canvas shops in the world LOL"
I don't understand your remark. Are you saying that the reputation of Wm. J. Mills & Co. is very good with the locals? Or are you saying the opposite, i.e., that the locals don't think much of Mill's canvas quality.
Please clarify.
rslsail posted 12-08-2009 08:21 PM ET (US)
The point I was trying to make was this: Trans Am said that a 'custom canvas' shop could do a better job than Mills and I was merely pointing out that Mills is a highly respected 'custom canvas' shop, who has infact been on board my sail boat and manufactured custom canvas for me. They are not some factory somewhere stamping out patterns. So with that being said, I would be completely comfortable purchasing a new mooring cover from them for the 150 Sport I recently purchased, based on my personal experiences with Mills and my understanding of its long history with Boston Whaler.
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 08:59 PM ET (US)

quote:
The point I was trying to make was this: Trans Am said that a 'custom canvas' shop could do a better job than Mills ....
Nope, never said that. I said:

quote:
t is good in a sense that you could pick up the phone and order products off the shelf so to speak (I suspect Mills stocks some items while make-to-order others) that should fit your Whaler reasonably well, built from quality products. A custom shop can make the dodger fit exactly the way you want, and many prefer to place their boat directly in the hands of the canvas shop to endure a proper fit.
All I suggested was that if you need something "non standard Whaler OEM", a local custom shop could make that alteration whereas Mills could not. Whether ordering a standard stock pattern from Mills or something from your local shop, it is almost always better if the boat is at their disposal. For Mills canvas, this is limited to a very few Whaler owners within reasonable travel distance to their shop. There are several threads here regarding stock pattern Mills canvas not fitting exactly as intended. This is bound to happen and is not a knock on Mills quality, merely the result of subtle differences in boats manufactured over 50 years by different people and equipment.
kwik_wurk posted 12-08-2009 09:19 PM ET (US)
I always envisioned dodgers lending toward sailboats, but that may be the sailor part of me. Maybe it would be fair to say that "Forward Shelter" is to "Dodger" as "German Shepherd" is to "Dog".
Here is a good picture of my boat with it's original 1983 canvas. I would clearly comment that the forward shelter and the windscreen are very distinct parts.
I think I took the picture last summer. Not bad for 26 year old canvas. (And I'll admit, it only gets used twice a year for about 3-4 weeks. But it makes a huge difference during the colder months.)
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb127/kwik_wurk/IMG_0676.jpg
Tohsgib posted 12-08-2009 09:48 PM ET (US)
Mills Sucks!
Tom W Clark posted 12-08-2009 09:51 PM ET (US)
Collapsing Canvas and Framework that Creates Weather Protection for the Forward Area of the Boat has a nice ring to it.
TransAm posted 12-08-2009 10:08 PM ET (US)
I'll go with that. It's the most descriptive definition of a Dodger I have heard yet,;-)
rslsail posted 12-09-2009 07:13 AM ET (US)
I agree with the collapsing canvas thing, guess that's settled!
newt posted 12-09-2009 07:24 AM ET (US)
rslsail, Is Mills the only canvas shop in Greenport? My LI born wife explained to me that EVERYONE gets there canvas in Greenport.
rslsail posted 12-09-2009 08:58 AM ET (US)
There are canvas shops all over Long Island, but Mills are considered top of the line, they also do alot of commercial and residentail work. I keep my boats in Ct now and a great shop for anyone looking is Topside Canvas in Westbrook. They do great work, interior and exterior, and are priced extremely reasonable.

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Author	Topic: Boat Canvas Terminology
TommyWhaler	posted 12-07-2009 05:46 PM ET (US) What is the correct term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama. It is bubble shaped and has a plastic windshield like on the console. Thanks, Tommy
TransAm	posted 12-07-2009 05:48 PM ET (US) Dodger
Tom W Clark	posted 12-07-2009 07:11 PM ET (US) Forward Shelter
R T M	posted 12-07-2009 07:21 PM ET (US) Dodger--Common name on East Coast Forward shelter-- Used by Whaler dealers rich/Binkie
jimh	posted 12-07-2009 08:18 PM ET (US) One of the early catalogues of Boston Whaler contained a series of sketches which illustrated all of the weather canvas accessories available, principally made by the Wm. J. Mills & Co. of Greenport, New York. The terminology used by Whaler and Mills for these canvas components is the accepted terminology for these products on a Boston Whaler boat.
number9	posted 12-07-2009 08:38 PM ET (US) Was there a dodger option at the time the forward shelter was first available? Bill
BlueMax	posted 12-08-2009 05:20 AM ET (US) The Dodgers moved to L.A. about 40 years ago..... JimH - I'm glad BW and WJ Mills have agreed on terminology - the question however asks what is that correct terminology - your response is like asking someone's real name and being told that it's on their birth cert because it was accepted as such by their parents when they were born. Yeah, Okay..... but what is the name?
jimh	posted 12-08-2009 09:29 AM ET (US) The Boston Whaler canvas system is illustrated in the 1980 catalogue and shows optional canvas for most models that includes some or all of: --Flying Top --Sun Top --Forward Shelter --Windscreen --Side Curtain --Drop Curtain --Aft Curtain
Tom W Clark	posted 12-08-2009 10:31 AM ET (US) The question was: "What is the correct term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama?" The answer is Forward Shelter. The question was NOT: What is another term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama? Now was it: "What is a common East Coast term for the weather shield that attaches to the bow of my Katama?" The question was simple enough and the answer is what Whaler chose to call it. Forward Shelter. It is a good descriptive term. The term "dodger", which is equally common on the West Coast as the East Coast, is a less specific term. The Flying Top and the Windshield also form a dodger, so if you describe the "dodger" on your Katama, it is ambiguous. You could be referring to the Forward Shelter, the Flying Top and Windshield or the entire weather canvas system, and all would be correct. If you say Forward Shelter, everybody in the Whaler world knows exactly what you are referring too and those unfamiliar with the Whaler world will figure it out pretty quickly without an entire thread discussing what a part, that Whaler has already named, should be called. It is really very simple, like my name, Tom. People always make things more complicated and assume my name is Thomas. People call me Thomas all the time...but my correct name is Tom.
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 10:34 AM ET (US) So it appears that the correct term as used by Boston Whaler would be Forward Shelter. I had reason to call my local canvas shop this morning to see if the repairs to my Mills mooring cover were complete and asked if they could make me a Forward Shelter for a small Whaler. They said "you mean a Dodger?" You say Toe-mah-toe, I say Toe-may-toe.....
gnr	posted 12-08-2009 10:52 AM ET (US) Geeze 'Tom', You're giving jimh a run for his money here. Calm down, it'll be ok. btw I've always heard and used "dodger" to decribe that particular unit. Now is this can of soft drink here a soda or a pop? LOL How about that long sandwich? A Sub or a grinder?
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 12:11 PM ET (US) I don't think either term is particularly descriptive, except perhaps to Boston Whaler, who seem to prefer the term Forward Shelter, and have OEM equipment specifically for Whalers made by a specific canvas fabricator, Wm. J. Mills & Co. This is unique for Boston Whaler. Forward Shelter to me means something forward of the helm that provides some form of cover. Does it have a window...maybe; metal supports...probably. Same could be said for a dodger. The terms, outside of Boston Whaler/Mills Canvass circles are interchangable with regional preferences. My local canvas shop has big letters on their shop window spelling "Dodgers" among other things they fabricate. But the technically correct term for a Boston Whaler Katima is Forward Shelter.
Tom W Clark	posted 12-08-2009 12:29 PM ET (US) Joe -- There is no such thing as a Katima. It's Katama. ;-)
Tohsgib	posted 12-08-2009 12:51 PM ET (US) I will say that Dodger is the term used in FL(never heard of it before I moved here). I will also say that a forward shelter can/is connected to the sun top or flying top with eisenglass, etc. In FL the "dodgers" are not connected. Now with that all being said. What is the correct terminology for that piece of canvas that is above your head supported by poles that can fold down? Is it a Sun top, Flying top or Bimini top? I bet you call 95% of any canvas joints and ask for a flying top and they will tell you to go take a flying.... Forward shelter = Dodger to most. Bimini is worldwide universal and I bet most would understand a "sun top" but a Flying top is Mills/Whaler related or antiquated.
tjxtreme	posted 12-08-2009 01:35 PM ET (US) I think it depends on how "correct" is defined. Most commonly used? Used by a specific manufacturer? I think that since the dodger/shelter transcends all boat types Whaler wouldn't necessarily dictate the proper usage. If we accept internet hits as a suitable proxy for real world usage, then we get the following results: Search terms- whaler dodger: 102,000 whaler "forward shelter": 1,100 Results: "dodger" used 92 times more frequently when talking about whalers) boat dodger: 589,000 whaler "forward shelter": 1,220 Results: "dodger" used 482 times more frequently when talking about boats in general (all data from Google as of December 8, 2009) Dodger is clearly the more widely used term, and that's what I'll use. If you want to stick to the less widely used term, but the one that is used by Whaler itself, then go with "forward shelter."
rslsail	posted 12-08-2009 02:13 PM ET (US) We are talking about Whalers, Whaler calls it a 'Forward Shelter', so why would you not use that terminology? Americans call soccer 'soccer', the rest of the world calls it 'Football', seems to me if you're talking to an American you'd say soccer. Same concept fellas, speak the language that is going to get your point accross with the least amount of pain so as to avoid, for example, keeping a thread from going on for pages unneccessarily. If you're talking about a Whaler and Whaler, in its literature, calls it a 'forward shelter' then you should too. On my sailboat I have a dodger, if I called it a forward shelter no one would know what I was talking about even if its the same thing, know your audience.
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 02:43 PM ET (US) Tom---I realized my spelling error after I posted my article. However, in accordance with the registration terms suggesting: quote: ...It is not necessary to post follow-up articles correcting minor errors in the original submission unless crucial for proper comprehension. It seems you understood my meaning, as I'm sure all other did as well. But thanks again for being technically correct, I think. :o)
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 02:51 PM ET (US) quote: We are talking about Whalers, Whaler calls it a 'Forward Shelter', so why would you not use that terminology? This would apply only if you were talking Whalers to Mills Canvas. If you go to a custom canvas shop as many of us do, I would think the term most widely recognized would be more appropriate. For instance, if your were talking soccer to a recent immigrant from Brazil here in the US, would you insist on calling Football Soccer, or would you call it Football so the immigrant could understand you?
gnr	posted 12-08-2009 02:55 PM ET (US) What would Tom say?
Tom W Clark	posted 12-08-2009 02:58 PM ET (US) Joe -- That refers to posting follow-ups to your own posts, not others. Seriously, you guys need to lighten up. Apparently not only am I not supposed to tease you, but I can't even make fun of myself either?
rslsail	posted 12-08-2009 03:45 PM ET (US) TA, I have used Mills and other canvas shops. For both Whaler and non Whaler canvas. Personally, if I went into a canvas shop and they were not familiar with Whalers and were at a complete loss when I told them about a front shelter for a Boston Whaler and they had absolutely no idea whatsoever what I was talking about and were unable to discern what I needed with one or two questions, I think I would find another canvas shop.
rslsail	posted 12-08-2009 03:47 PM ET (US) Also living local and knowing Mills my whole life, I think I could find many people willing to argue that Mills is one of the finest custom canvas shops in the world LOL
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 04:38 PM ET (US) rls--making a quality dodger for a Whaler is no different than making one for a Grady White. With Mills, however, you are limited to the specific one they make for your model. This is both good and bad. It is good in a sense that you could pick up the phone and order products off the shelf so to speak (I suspect Mills stocks some items while make-to-order others) that should fit your Whaler reasonably well, built from quality products. A custom shop can make the dodger fit exactly the way you want, and many prefer to place their boat directly in the hands of the canvas shop to endure a proper fit. Lets say you sit low at the helm and their pre-designed shelter blocks your view when underway and deployed. A custom shop could easily adjust the profile to accommodate the specifics of your boat. I have no doubt Mills is a quality product. And there is also not doubt you would have argument from others that they build the finest canvas. I would agree, though, if a canvas shop, after hearing of you plans for a forward shelter or "dodger", had no idea what you were talking about that they should be avoided.
jimh	posted 12-08-2009 07:35 PM ET (US) On a boat the term "dodger" is usually a shorten form of "spray dodger." You can rig a spray dodger in many locations. On sailboats with aft cockpits it is common to have a spray dodger rigged around the companionway hatch. These devices are not the same as a Boston Whaler forward shelter. As Tom notes, the arrangement of the Boston Whaler Windscreen could be considered a spray dodger on other boats. The terminology Forward Shelter may be specific to Boston Whaler, but that only makes it more appropriate to use when describing a feature of a Boston Whaler. I suspect that in arriving at the nomenclature of the Boston Whaler canvas system, Dick Fisher probably had his say about what to call it. If he wanted to call the collapsing canvas and framework that creates weather protection for the forward area of the boat a dodger instead of a Forward Shelter, I am sure he would have done it.
jimh	posted 12-08-2009 08:00 PM ET (US) rslsail writes: "Also living local and knowing Mills my whole life, I think I could find many people willing to argue that Mills is one of the finest custom canvas shops in the world LOL" I don't understand your remark. Are you saying that the reputation of Wm. J. Mills & Co. is very good with the locals? Or are you saying the opposite, i.e., that the locals don't think much of Mill's canvas quality. Please clarify.
rslsail	posted 12-08-2009 08:21 PM ET (US) The point I was trying to make was this: Trans Am said that a 'custom canvas' shop could do a better job than Mills and I was merely pointing out that Mills is a highly respected 'custom canvas' shop, who has infact been on board my sail boat and manufactured custom canvas for me. They are not some factory somewhere stamping out patterns. So with that being said, I would be completely comfortable purchasing a new mooring cover from them for the 150 Sport I recently purchased, based on my personal experiences with Mills and my understanding of its long history with Boston Whaler.
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 08:59 PM ET (US) quote: The point I was trying to make was this: Trans Am said that a 'custom canvas' shop could do a better job than Mills .... Nope, never said that. I said: quote: t is good in a sense that you could pick up the phone and order products off the shelf so to speak (I suspect Mills stocks some items while make-to-order others) that should fit your Whaler reasonably well, built from quality products. A custom shop can make the dodger fit exactly the way you want, and many prefer to place their boat directly in the hands of the canvas shop to endure a proper fit. All I suggested was that if you need something "non standard Whaler OEM", a local custom shop could make that alteration whereas Mills could not. Whether ordering a standard stock pattern from Mills or something from your local shop, it is almost always better if the boat is at their disposal. For Mills canvas, this is limited to a very few Whaler owners within reasonable travel distance to their shop. There are several threads here regarding stock pattern Mills canvas not fitting exactly as intended. This is bound to happen and is not a knock on Mills quality, merely the result of subtle differences in boats manufactured over 50 years by different people and equipment.
kwik_wurk	posted 12-08-2009 09:19 PM ET (US) I always envisioned dodgers lending toward sailboats, but that may be the sailor part of me. Maybe it would be fair to say that "Forward Shelter" is to "Dodger" as "German Shepherd" is to "Dog". Here is a good picture of my boat with it's original 1983 canvas. I would clearly comment that the forward shelter and the windscreen are very distinct parts. I think I took the picture last summer. Not bad for 26 year old canvas. (And I'll admit, it only gets used twice a year for about 3-4 weeks. But it makes a huge difference during the colder months.) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb127/kwik_wurk/IMG_0676.jpg
Tohsgib	posted 12-08-2009 09:48 PM ET (US) Mills Sucks!
Tom W Clark	posted 12-08-2009 09:51 PM ET (US) Collapsing Canvas and Framework that Creates Weather Protection for the Forward Area of the Boat has a nice ring to it.
TransAm	posted 12-08-2009 10:08 PM ET (US) I'll go with that. It's the most descriptive definition of a Dodger I have heard yet,;-)
rslsail	posted 12-09-2009 07:13 AM ET (US) I agree with the collapsing canvas thing, guess that's settled!
newt	posted 12-09-2009 07:24 AM ET (US) rslsail, Is Mills the only canvas shop in Greenport? My LI born wife explained to me that EVERYONE gets there canvas in Greenport.
rslsail	posted 12-09-2009 08:58 AM ET (US) There are canvas shops all over Long Island, but Mills are considered top of the line, they also do alot of commercial and residentail work. I keep my boats in Ct now and a great shop for anyone looking is Topside Canvas in Westbrook. They do great work, interior and exterior, and are priced extremely reasonable.