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Author Topic:   1986 Outrage 25 Cuddy

SATPHONE posted 02-03-2010 09:50 PM ET (US)
Hi. I am a new member. I may purchase a 1986 Outrage 25 Cuddy with Whaler Drive and a 2001 Merc 250 (500 hours). The boat has no trailer. If the survey is clean, what is a fair price on this boat? What should I be looking out for? What other options would I want to see? Is the 1986 better or worse than any other years? Is the cuddy big enough to sleep two adults for a night? Thanks--David

jimh posted 02-03-2010 11:15 PM ET (US)
The guidelines I give in my article (linked below) will be applicable to your assessment of the 1986 Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 25 Cuddy. See
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/buying.html
The price for a 25-foot OUTRAGE has generally remained quite strong, and at one time I would have said that this was the most desirable of all the classic Boston Whaler hulls because of its wonderful combination of ride, size, and reasonable weight on a trailer. However, recently the market has changed somewhat from the influence of two principal factors:
--increase in fuel prices, and
--general decline in economic prosperity and disposable income for recreational spending
Bigger boats use more fuel, of course, so there has been a bit of a withdrawal from larger boats. I see many boats in the over-25-foot range offered for sale at prices reduced from what would have been asked a few years ago. Bigger boats cost more, and with a general economic decline, their prices are perhaps more affected by downward pressure.
With those two factors in consideration, prices for nice 25-foot Boston Whaler classics may be down a bit from their otherwise generally strong selling price.
With any used boat, condition is the greatest factor in price determination. Thus an estimate of value is impossible without seeing the boat first hand, or seeing good photographs, or hearing of a first hand impression.
At one time I would have said that a really nice 25-footer, with Whaler Drive, and good engine(s) would be well over $25,000. However, it is a new world now with used boat prices. I would look at BOATTRADERONLINE.COM for some guidance. Again, condition is paramount.
If you plan to trailer the boat, the lack of a trailer is a serious problem, and one that can only be remedied by a substantial expense. A proper trailer for a 25-foot boat will be quite expensive, probably $5,000.
The set up with Whaler Drive is very interesting. The Whaler Drive was an expensive option, and it is somewhat rare. It gives the boat a substantially different character because it creates a closed transom and rear deck. The deck creates storage, and it also cleans up the rigging by hiding from view the battery, the oil tank, and most of the cables and wiring. The Whaler Drive is also very handy as a swim platform. In terms of altering the performance of the hull, the Whaler Drive does that, as well. It makes the ride better. It eliminates bow rise in the transition to plane. It is also somewhat of a performance hog, at least compared to rigging with a set back bracket that does not have a buoyancy box (which is the term Bob Dougherty used to describe the Whaler Drive). My own boat has a Whaler Drive, and we love it. I consider it a big plus.
As for the year of construction, 1986, questions like this are common. The boat was likely built in Rockland, Massachusetts. Some think this plant turned out better hulls than those built in Florida. Who can really say?
In any case, in the 24 years since 1986 the present condition of the boat has likely been much more greatly influenced by the way it was used and the way it was maintained than any difference in original construction might make on a year to year basis. I really don't know of any particularly bad year, with the exception of perhaps the early 1980's were some hulls were seen with wavy sides from foam contraction.
As for sleeping aboard, Christine and I have probably slept 100 nights in the cabin of our two REVENGE hulls. Your 25-foot OUTRAGE CUDDY cabin will have similar dimensions, perhaps with slightly lower headroom. You can have a wonderful sleep in these cabins, and we have spent as many as 12 consecutive nights cruising and sleeping without any complaints about the accommodation.
Although you did not specifically ask about it, I will mention the power on the boat. A single 250-HP is not excessive, and you often see twin engines on these boats. If the engine is in good condition the boat speed should top out at about 40 to 45-MPH.
SATPHONE posted 02-04-2010 11:35 AM ET (US)
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your response. I am having a survey done on the boat this week. It turns out that the boat is a 1989 and I am being told that it is a "Commercial" version of the 25' Outrage CC Cuddy. Not quite sure what that means though. The asking price is $13k firm.
David
mgeiger posted 02-04-2010 11:51 AM ET (US)
Do a search on "Guardian" on this site. That's the term for many of the commercial Whalers. Reported to have a heavier layup, along with some nice HD options like stainless cutwaters, more cleats, rub strakes and dive doors. I don't think I'm alone in stating that I'd prefer a Guardian version of any Whaler. Downside is - many of these have lived a tough life performing government/police/fire/military duties. $13k is on the low-end. Post your findings and thoughts once you see her.
andygere posted 02-04-2010 01:35 PM ET (US)
I own a 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy, and love the boat. The cabin is comfortable for two to overnight in, but does not offer much head room. I made a simple filler for the well in the cuddy and added a cushion to cover it when camping on the boat. The cuddy is also great for secure dry storage, naps and a place to get out of the weather.
It's hard to offer a reasonable price to pay without seeing the boat, but $13k is in range if it's in good condition with a solid motor. A 25 Outrage Cuddy with a WhalerDrive is probably a somewhat rare boat, but in this economy that should not impact the price much. Overall, I think that's a great boat for a lot of different uses. If you get it for a price you can live with, you won't be disappointed.
jimh posted 02-04-2010 08:39 PM ET (US)
Wow--Asking $13,000 for a 1989 OUTRAGE 25 is like giving it away. If the thing floats, I would buy it.
Jeff posted 02-04-2010 09:32 PM ET (US)
If it is an Outrage Cuddy style Boston Whaler it could not be a Guardian. It may be an Outrage Cuddy built to "Work Boat" specs with an added glass lay up schedule which was an option. If this was the case there would be a Red Dot in the gel coat on the sides of the hull back by the logo. The was never a Guardian Cuddy offered that was like the Outrage Cuddy.
Also, if it has Whaler Drive it should be a 1987 or later correct?
Tom W Clark posted 02-04-2010 09:41 PM ET (US)
David,
The value of the boat is dependent on: CONDITION, CONDITION and CONDITION.
With an asking price of $13,000 I'm imagining a rough boat.
Yes, there were some commercial versions of the Outrage Cuddy, built. There was (or perhaps still is) that one for sale forever in the Bay Area with the Volvo sterndrive that was reportedly built for Chevron. That one was beat as well.
It is fine that you are having the boat surveyed, but let me offer this advice to you and anybody else ever thinking of buying a boat long distance: You MUST go see it for yourself, even if that means buying a plane ticket.
Tom W Clark posted 02-04-2010 09:43 PM ET (US)
...and if the boat is in Florida, be doubly skeptical.
SATPHONE posted 02-05-2010 10:04 AM ET (US)
The hull number is BWC8B791k889. I contacted Boston Whaler and it is not indicated as a Guardian or commercial boat.
SATPHONE posted 02-28-2010 08:44 PM ET (US)
Hi Guys,
The survey has come back clean and the hull seems to be in good condition. However, I am concerned about the gas tank. Although there is no smell of gas in the bilge or evidence of leakage, should I still factor in replacing this 21 year old tank? If so, at what cost?
Thank you in advance,
David
Jeff posted 02-28-2010 09:06 PM ET (US)
Are you doing the work yourself or are you having it done? Also if you are derigging everything and pulling the floor you should plan just to have the plywood replaced in the fuel tank deck cover section. No time like the present as you will not want to completely derig and pull the floor again down the road.
dfmcintyre posted 03-01-2010 07:33 AM ET (US)
David -
Are they metal or plastic tanks?
Don
SATPHONE posted 03-01-2010 06:44 PM ET (US)
I believe it is a single aluminum tank as the boat is a 1989.
David
kwik_wurk posted 03-01-2010 07:48 PM ET (US)
$13K - Is on the low end, and a good deal if true. A whaler drive is a nice feature to have. Really changes the feel of how much volume/space the boat has when you are in it.
The price reflects a boat that has been used. I suggest seeing the boat yourself if the capital is of significance to you. (I would hate to see you end up with a former work boat, that has gashes all over.)
The tank should be ok, but I would be worried about fuel lines first. The lines are probably going if they weren't replaced when the new engine was put on. And unless you have an active tank leak, just put a good fuel filter and I wouldn't worry about it. (A fuel filter with a clear bowl will tell you a lot.)
Make sure you have a quality surveyor, certified, and not a buddy-buddy of the broker or seller. (I had this happen to me once, where the broker gave me two surveyors. And I new they were buddies. So I went out-of town and found a surveyor that had never heard of the broker.)
Good luck and nice find...
dfmcintyre posted 03-01-2010 08:09 PM ET (US)
If your really concerned about the tank quality, you can have it pressure tested.Is it a single tank or duals? My 80's 25' Revenge had duals.
Regards - Don
dfmcintyre posted 03-01-2010 08:10 PM ET (US)
Disregard the last. Brain freeze I believe.
SATPHONE posted 03-17-2010 06:41 PM ET (US)
Well, I was able to put together a deal on the boat with a new 6k pound aluminum trailer for $15.5k. Now, to please the wife I need to make it more family friendly and I have a few questions regarding that.
-What is the best way to fasten this stern seat to the deck and exactly where should I place it. Do I fasten it right to the foam deck with 4200 sealant or do I search for wood?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-STERN-SEAT-FITS-BOSTON-WHALER-OUTRAGE-18-20-22-25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a7b5d697QQitemZ230446978711QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear
-Also, any tips on how to make the cuddy a comfortable place for the kids (and me) to nap during fishing trips?
-What size cooler (seat) will go in front of the center console and what is the best way to fasten it to the deck.
Any other tips on how to make the boat more family comfortable are greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance,
David
Essex, CT
mgeiger posted 03-19-2010 09:25 AM ET (US)
Congrats on the boat. Making the cuddy more comfortable - Air flow is key, so make sure the hatches operate well. I always kept a bunch of pillows and blankets in my sailboats, so anyone resting or sleeping could get comfortable (and kinda wedged in place in rougher weather) in a berth. For my kids, I kept a rubbermaid tub full of toys - squirt guns, legos, drawing pads, books, plus boat-related fun stuff like cheap binoculars, cheap handheld compasses etc. Have fun!

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Author	Topic: 1986 Outrage 25 Cuddy
SATPHONE	posted 02-03-2010 09:50 PM ET (US) Hi. I am a new member. I may purchase a 1986 Outrage 25 Cuddy with Whaler Drive and a 2001 Merc 250 (500 hours). The boat has no trailer. If the survey is clean, what is a fair price on this boat? What should I be looking out for? What other options would I want to see? Is the 1986 better or worse than any other years? Is the cuddy big enough to sleep two adults for a night? Thanks--David
jimh	posted 02-03-2010 11:15 PM ET (US) The guidelines I give in my article (linked below) will be applicable to your assessment of the 1986 Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 25 Cuddy. See http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/buying.html The price for a 25-foot OUTRAGE has generally remained quite strong, and at one time I would have said that this was the most desirable of all the classic Boston Whaler hulls because of its wonderful combination of ride, size, and reasonable weight on a trailer. However, recently the market has changed somewhat from the influence of two principal factors: --increase in fuel prices, and --general decline in economic prosperity and disposable income for recreational spending Bigger boats use more fuel, of course, so there has been a bit of a withdrawal from larger boats. I see many boats in the over-25-foot range offered for sale at prices reduced from what would have been asked a few years ago. Bigger boats cost more, and with a general economic decline, their prices are perhaps more affected by downward pressure. With those two factors in consideration, prices for nice 25-foot Boston Whaler classics may be down a bit from their otherwise generally strong selling price. With any used boat, condition is the greatest factor in price determination. Thus an estimate of value is impossible without seeing the boat first hand, or seeing good photographs, or hearing of a first hand impression. At one time I would have said that a really nice 25-footer, with Whaler Drive, and good engine(s) would be well over $25,000. However, it is a new world now with used boat prices. I would look at BOATTRADERONLINE.COM for some guidance. Again, condition is paramount. If you plan to trailer the boat, the lack of a trailer is a serious problem, and one that can only be remedied by a substantial expense. A proper trailer for a 25-foot boat will be quite expensive, probably $5,000. The set up with Whaler Drive is very interesting. The Whaler Drive was an expensive option, and it is somewhat rare. It gives the boat a substantially different character because it creates a closed transom and rear deck. The deck creates storage, and it also cleans up the rigging by hiding from view the battery, the oil tank, and most of the cables and wiring. The Whaler Drive is also very handy as a swim platform. In terms of altering the performance of the hull, the Whaler Drive does that, as well. It makes the ride better. It eliminates bow rise in the transition to plane. It is also somewhat of a performance hog, at least compared to rigging with a set back bracket that does not have a buoyancy box (which is the term Bob Dougherty used to describe the Whaler Drive). My own boat has a Whaler Drive, and we love it. I consider it a big plus. As for the year of construction, 1986, questions like this are common. The boat was likely built in Rockland, Massachusetts. Some think this plant turned out better hulls than those built in Florida. Who can really say? In any case, in the 24 years since 1986 the present condition of the boat has likely been much more greatly influenced by the way it was used and the way it was maintained than any difference in original construction might make on a year to year basis. I really don't know of any particularly bad year, with the exception of perhaps the early 1980's were some hulls were seen with wavy sides from foam contraction. As for sleeping aboard, Christine and I have probably slept 100 nights in the cabin of our two REVENGE hulls. Your 25-foot OUTRAGE CUDDY cabin will have similar dimensions, perhaps with slightly lower headroom. You can have a wonderful sleep in these cabins, and we have spent as many as 12 consecutive nights cruising and sleeping without any complaints about the accommodation. Although you did not specifically ask about it, I will mention the power on the boat. A single 250-HP is not excessive, and you often see twin engines on these boats. If the engine is in good condition the boat speed should top out at about 40 to 45-MPH.
SATPHONE	posted 02-04-2010 11:35 AM ET (US) Hi Jim, Thanks for your response. I am having a survey done on the boat this week. It turns out that the boat is a 1989 and I am being told that it is a "Commercial" version of the 25' Outrage CC Cuddy. Not quite sure what that means though. The asking price is $13k firm. David
mgeiger	posted 02-04-2010 11:51 AM ET (US) Do a search on "Guardian" on this site. That's the term for many of the commercial Whalers. Reported to have a heavier layup, along with some nice HD options like stainless cutwaters, more cleats, rub strakes and dive doors. I don't think I'm alone in stating that I'd prefer a Guardian version of any Whaler. Downside is - many of these have lived a tough life performing government/police/fire/military duties. $13k is on the low-end. Post your findings and thoughts once you see her.
andygere	posted 02-04-2010 01:35 PM ET (US) I own a 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy, and love the boat. The cabin is comfortable for two to overnight in, but does not offer much head room. I made a simple filler for the well in the cuddy and added a cushion to cover it when camping on the boat. The cuddy is also great for secure dry storage, naps and a place to get out of the weather. It's hard to offer a reasonable price to pay without seeing the boat, but $13k is in range if it's in good condition with a solid motor. A 25 Outrage Cuddy with a WhalerDrive is probably a somewhat rare boat, but in this economy that should not impact the price much. Overall, I think that's a great boat for a lot of different uses. If you get it for a price you can live with, you won't be disappointed.
jimh	posted 02-04-2010 08:39 PM ET (US) Wow--Asking $13,000 for a 1989 OUTRAGE 25 is like giving it away. If the thing floats, I would buy it.
Jeff	posted 02-04-2010 09:32 PM ET (US) If it is an Outrage Cuddy style Boston Whaler it could not be a Guardian. It may be an Outrage Cuddy built to "Work Boat" specs with an added glass lay up schedule which was an option. If this was the case there would be a Red Dot in the gel coat on the sides of the hull back by the logo. The was never a Guardian Cuddy offered that was like the Outrage Cuddy. Also, if it has Whaler Drive it should be a 1987 or later correct?
Tom W Clark	posted 02-04-2010 09:41 PM ET (US) David, The value of the boat is dependent on: CONDITION, CONDITION and CONDITION. With an asking price of $13,000 I'm imagining a rough boat. Yes, there were some commercial versions of the Outrage Cuddy, built. There was (or perhaps still is) that one for sale forever in the Bay Area with the Volvo sterndrive that was reportedly built for Chevron. That one was beat as well. It is fine that you are having the boat surveyed, but let me offer this advice to you and anybody else ever thinking of buying a boat long distance: You MUST go see it for yourself, even if that means buying a plane ticket.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-04-2010 09:43 PM ET (US) ...and if the boat is in Florida, be doubly skeptical.
SATPHONE	posted 02-05-2010 10:04 AM ET (US) The hull number is BWC8B791k889. I contacted Boston Whaler and it is not indicated as a Guardian or commercial boat.
SATPHONE	posted 02-28-2010 08:44 PM ET (US) Hi Guys, The survey has come back clean and the hull seems to be in good condition. However, I am concerned about the gas tank. Although there is no smell of gas in the bilge or evidence of leakage, should I still factor in replacing this 21 year old tank? If so, at what cost? Thank you in advance, David
Jeff	posted 02-28-2010 09:06 PM ET (US) Are you doing the work yourself or are you having it done? Also if you are derigging everything and pulling the floor you should plan just to have the plywood replaced in the fuel tank deck cover section. No time like the present as you will not want to completely derig and pull the floor again down the road.
dfmcintyre	posted 03-01-2010 07:33 AM ET (US) David - Are they metal or plastic tanks? Don
SATPHONE	posted 03-01-2010 06:44 PM ET (US) I believe it is a single aluminum tank as the boat is a 1989. David
kwik_wurk	posted 03-01-2010 07:48 PM ET (US) $13K - Is on the low end, and a good deal if true. A whaler drive is a nice feature to have. Really changes the feel of how much volume/space the boat has when you are in it. The price reflects a boat that has been used. I suggest seeing the boat yourself if the capital is of significance to you. (I would hate to see you end up with a former work boat, that has gashes all over.) The tank should be ok, but I would be worried about fuel lines first. The lines are probably going if they weren't replaced when the new engine was put on. And unless you have an active tank leak, just put a good fuel filter and I wouldn't worry about it. (A fuel filter with a clear bowl will tell you a lot.) Make sure you have a quality surveyor, certified, and not a buddy-buddy of the broker or seller. (I had this happen to me once, where the broker gave me two surveyors. And I new they were buddies. So I went out-of town and found a surveyor that had never heard of the broker.) Good luck and nice find...
dfmcintyre	posted 03-01-2010 08:09 PM ET (US) If your really concerned about the tank quality, you can have it pressure tested.Is it a single tank or duals? My 80's 25' Revenge had duals. Regards - Don
dfmcintyre	posted 03-01-2010 08:10 PM ET (US) Disregard the last. Brain freeze I believe.
SATPHONE	posted 03-17-2010 06:41 PM ET (US) Well, I was able to put together a deal on the boat with a new 6k pound aluminum trailer for $15.5k. Now, to please the wife I need to make it more family friendly and I have a few questions regarding that. -What is the best way to fasten this stern seat to the deck and exactly where should I place it. Do I fasten it right to the foam deck with 4200 sealant or do I search for wood? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-STERN-SEAT-FITS-BOSTON-WHALER-OUTRAGE-18-20-22-25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a7b5d697QQitemZ230446978711QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear -Also, any tips on how to make the cuddy a comfortable place for the kids (and me) to nap during fishing trips? -What size cooler (seat) will go in front of the center console and what is the best way to fasten it to the deck. Any other tips on how to make the boat more family comfortable are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, David Essex, CT
mgeiger	posted 03-19-2010 09:25 AM ET (US) Congrats on the boat. Making the cuddy more comfortable - Air flow is key, so make sure the hatches operate well. I always kept a bunch of pillows and blankets in my sailboats, so anyone resting or sleeping could get comfortable (and kinda wedged in place in rougher weather) in a berth. For my kids, I kept a rubbermaid tub full of toys - squirt guns, legos, drawing pads, books, plus boat-related fun stuff like cheap binoculars, cheap handheld compasses etc. Have fun!