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Author Topic:   Emergency Signal training for the family

Fishmore posted 02-08-2010 01:32 PM ET (US)
I was going through my boat this weekend and noticed that my flares/smoke etc... was expired. So before I restock I started doing some thinking and internet searching and found lots of info on expired flares and using flares etc.
Seeing as there does not seem to be a good place to learn how to use this equipment, and hand held flares just seem like too much for my wife or kids to use especially after all the talk of hot drippings etc. I am thinking that the best thing to do is to not have hand held flares aboard and just stick with my 12 gauge flare gun and teach the family how to use it.
All my family gets gun safety training yearly and many times it is just my six year old and I in the boat. If something happened to me they know how to run the boat and most importantly how to shut off the engine. They also know how to use the radio. They do not know how to use flares but they do know how to shoot a gun safely. So I think it will be the easiest for the family to learn how to load a shell and fire it in an emergency. Am I missing something or is there a safer emergency signaling method I should be teaching to my family?
contender posted 02-08-2010 01:49 PM ET (US)
First, I do not get rid of my old flares, I keep 6 on board 3 good ones and 3 expired(I think this is a scam anyway cause they last for ever if they do not get wet) and I rotate them as they expire. The 12gauge shoots a flare and then its out, a flare last for a while so I think they are better. (but I carry both). Make something to hold the flares and teach them how to use the flares(use an expired one for trainning its like lighting a large match). I keep them in a sealed bucket thats red, inside I have some other rescue stuff, the bucket comes out when I'm home and stays dry. I also just transfer the bucket to my other boats so I only have to maintain one set of rescue/flares. They should know some 1st aid and hav e some equipment to go with it (most important carry something for allergic reactions (Benadryl) and something to stop a massive bleed). Your son at six is tough but teach him early, teach him to tie some knots, and use the radio and above all how to swimm... Take care
David Pendleton posted 02-08-2010 02:56 PM ET (US)
Handheld flares are just as essential as aerial flares in my opinion.
You can teach someone how to use one safely just as easily as you can teach them to load and fire a flare gun.
K Albus posted 02-08-2010 04:20 PM ET (US)
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
You don't trust your wife or child to use a handheld flare, but you think it would be a good idea to have them use a flare gun?
If that's really what you're saying, my two observations are as follows:
1. If your wife or child are not capable of learning how to use a handheld flare, I would guess that most other safety/rescue training would also be beyond their grasp and you shouldn't count on them to provide much assistance in the event of an emergency.
2. If your wife and child are not capable of learning how to use a handheld flare, I would assume that this means that they don't often take the boat out without you. Assuming you know how to use a handheld flare, and that you will be on the boat virtually anytime that it is out, why would you not want to have them available for use by you during an emergency?
Bella con23 posted 02-08-2010 04:24 PM ET (US)
Here is a quick YouTUbe video put out by BoatUS on the proper Handheld Flare use - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAXCNalLHU&feature=related
I agree with the above comments. I would rather have them learn to use a handheld flare as apposed to a gun.
Joe
kwik_wurk posted 02-08-2010 05:24 PM ET (US)
I specifically do not keep hand-held flares on my Montauk. I do carry a strong 360 light, and flare gun (for compliance).
The 360 light is easy to test, and anybody can turn it on.
By having above deck fuel tanks on the boat, I do not believe in open flames. (Even though the instructions tell you to and hold flares over the gunnels; I wouldn't want one rolling on the deck of my boat.)
I don't know where you are, but my local USCG Aux, did a flare demonstration (along with boat inspections, etc, etc.).
high sierra posted 02-08-2010 10:01 PM ET (US)
Something that has not been addressed in this discussion is the noise level of a flare gun or the handheld flare with the pull chain igniter. These are as loud as a gun being fired next to your ear. The large solus type flares that are held at arms length ares so hot that unless you have gloves on you will want to drop it . The molten slag that comes off from it and the obnoxious smell will gag you. I have used all of these. high sierra
David Pendleton posted 02-08-2010 11:20 PM ET (US)
@kwik_wurk I hope that by "strong 360 light" you mean strobe light.
You can do your own research as why a strobe is preferable over a fixed or handheld light.
I think you're fooling yourself if your relying on some kind of handheld flashlight or your all-round light.
@high_sierra I'm using the standard, Orion near-shore 12GA alert product. I've fired the 12GA flare gun many times, and I regularly burn my (expired) flares in my driveway just for fun.
An Orion 12GA flare makes less noise than a firecracker and a flare does nothing but hiss.
A SOLAS (or as you put it, solus) rating has nothing to do with the amount of noise or heat signature of a particular signaling product. In fact, SOLAS flares are intended to be used in inflatable life rafts.
20dauntless posted 02-08-2010 11:51 PM ET (US)
I've never had to use a flare, thankfully. But I can't imagine (based on the instructions) that they are that difficult to use.
If you are worried about your family using pyrotechnics on the water, consider the alternatives. A DSC equipped VHF radio (connected to a GPS) would be a good investment if you don't have one already, since simply pressing the red distress button will summon help.
During the day, alternative signaling methods could be used, such as a bright colored flag or signal mirror. At night a strobe light (if you boat at night, have one on each lifejacket) may well do the trick.
You may also want to look into a PLB or EPIRB. Both could safely and quickly be activated by someone with basically no training.
BTW, every year I hear of a search and rescue mission initiated by the Coast Guard because someone set off flares in their driveway and someone else called them in. I seem to remember West Marine and the USCG teaming up to offer a place and time to set off old flares and see how they work. This would be a better way to get rid of old flares.
Fishmore posted 02-09-2010 04:12 AM ET (US)
Thank you for the feedback. I have always had both types of flares in my boats and I never thought to teach my family how to use a flare or thought about what is the best delivery method for them to safely use a flare.
Just to correct any misunderstanding I have an orange flag, a strobe, a VHF/DSC radio, an EPIRB, a battery operated hand held VHF, a GPS chart plotter, a battery operated hand held chart plotter, a horn and I have whistles. My family has been taught how to use all of those devices.
I am just unsure about which type of flares are best for me to carry around especially with regards to training my family on their usage. I think that what I am hearing so far is that given a choice most people would prefer to have a hand held flare rather than a flare gun because the hand held lasts longer and I guess for an adult they are not that hard to use. So maybe I should not teach my kids about flares and just stick with their current training on the non-pyrotechnic devices.
daveweight posted 02-09-2010 04:17 AM ET (US)
Maybe think on putting a welders gauntlet in with your flares, if you are nervous of the kids dropping them. You sound way more prepared than most boaters I come across.
Dave Weight
high sierra posted 02-09-2010 02:53 PM ET (US)
SOLAS of course. high sierra

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Author	Topic: Emergency Signal training for the family
Fishmore	posted 02-08-2010 01:32 PM ET (US) I was going through my boat this weekend and noticed that my flares/smoke etc... was expired. So before I restock I started doing some thinking and internet searching and found lots of info on expired flares and using flares etc. Seeing as there does not seem to be a good place to learn how to use this equipment, and hand held flares just seem like too much for my wife or kids to use especially after all the talk of hot drippings etc. I am thinking that the best thing to do is to not have hand held flares aboard and just stick with my 12 gauge flare gun and teach the family how to use it. All my family gets gun safety training yearly and many times it is just my six year old and I in the boat. If something happened to me they know how to run the boat and most importantly how to shut off the engine. They also know how to use the radio. They do not know how to use flares but they do know how to shoot a gun safely. So I think it will be the easiest for the family to learn how to load a shell and fire it in an emergency. Am I missing something or is there a safer emergency signaling method I should be teaching to my family?
contender	posted 02-08-2010 01:49 PM ET (US) First, I do not get rid of my old flares, I keep 6 on board 3 good ones and 3 expired(I think this is a scam anyway cause they last for ever if they do not get wet) and I rotate them as they expire. The 12gauge shoots a flare and then its out, a flare last for a while so I think they are better. (but I carry both). Make something to hold the flares and teach them how to use the flares(use an expired one for trainning its like lighting a large match). I keep them in a sealed bucket thats red, inside I have some other rescue stuff, the bucket comes out when I'm home and stays dry. I also just transfer the bucket to my other boats so I only have to maintain one set of rescue/flares. They should know some 1st aid and hav e some equipment to go with it (most important carry something for allergic reactions (Benadryl) and something to stop a massive bleed). Your son at six is tough but teach him early, teach him to tie some knots, and use the radio and above all how to swimm... Take care
David Pendleton	posted 02-08-2010 02:56 PM ET (US) Handheld flares are just as essential as aerial flares in my opinion. You can teach someone how to use one safely just as easily as you can teach them to load and fire a flare gun.
K Albus	posted 02-08-2010 04:20 PM ET (US) Let me see if I understand this correctly. You don't trust your wife or child to use a handheld flare, but you think it would be a good idea to have them use a flare gun? If that's really what you're saying, my two observations are as follows: 1. If your wife or child are not capable of learning how to use a handheld flare, I would guess that most other safety/rescue training would also be beyond their grasp and you shouldn't count on them to provide much assistance in the event of an emergency. 2. If your wife and child are not capable of learning how to use a handheld flare, I would assume that this means that they don't often take the boat out without you. Assuming you know how to use a handheld flare, and that you will be on the boat virtually anytime that it is out, why would you not want to have them available for use by you during an emergency?
Bella con23	posted 02-08-2010 04:24 PM ET (US) Here is a quick YouTUbe video put out by BoatUS on the proper Handheld Flare use - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdAXCNalLHU&feature=related I agree with the above comments. I would rather have them learn to use a handheld flare as apposed to a gun. Joe
kwik_wurk	posted 02-08-2010 05:24 PM ET (US) I specifically do not keep hand-held flares on my Montauk. I do carry a strong 360 light, and flare gun (for compliance). The 360 light is easy to test, and anybody can turn it on. By having above deck fuel tanks on the boat, I do not believe in open flames. (Even though the instructions tell you to and hold flares over the gunnels; I wouldn't want one rolling on the deck of my boat.) I don't know where you are, but my local USCG Aux, did a flare demonstration (along with boat inspections, etc, etc.).
high sierra	posted 02-08-2010 10:01 PM ET (US) Something that has not been addressed in this discussion is the noise level of a flare gun or the handheld flare with the pull chain igniter. These are as loud as a gun being fired next to your ear. The large solus type flares that are held at arms length ares so hot that unless you have gloves on you will want to drop it . The molten slag that comes off from it and the obnoxious smell will gag you. I have used all of these. high sierra
David Pendleton	posted 02-08-2010 11:20 PM ET (US) @kwik_wurk I hope that by "strong 360 light" you mean strobe light. You can do your own research as why a strobe is preferable over a fixed or handheld light. I think you're fooling yourself if your relying on some kind of handheld flashlight or your all-round light. @high_sierra I'm using the standard, Orion near-shore 12GA alert product. I've fired the 12GA flare gun many times, and I regularly burn my (expired) flares in my driveway just for fun. An Orion 12GA flare makes less noise than a firecracker and a flare does nothing but hiss. A SOLAS (or as you put it, solus) rating has nothing to do with the amount of noise or heat signature of a particular signaling product. In fact, SOLAS flares are intended to be used in inflatable life rafts.
20dauntless	posted 02-08-2010 11:51 PM ET (US) I've never had to use a flare, thankfully. But I can't imagine (based on the instructions) that they are that difficult to use. If you are worried about your family using pyrotechnics on the water, consider the alternatives. A DSC equipped VHF radio (connected to a GPS) would be a good investment if you don't have one already, since simply pressing the red distress button will summon help. During the day, alternative signaling methods could be used, such as a bright colored flag or signal mirror. At night a strobe light (if you boat at night, have one on each lifejacket) may well do the trick. You may also want to look into a PLB or EPIRB. Both could safely and quickly be activated by someone with basically no training. BTW, every year I hear of a search and rescue mission initiated by the Coast Guard because someone set off flares in their driveway and someone else called them in. I seem to remember West Marine and the USCG teaming up to offer a place and time to set off old flares and see how they work. This would be a better way to get rid of old flares.
Fishmore	posted 02-09-2010 04:12 AM ET (US) Thank you for the feedback. I have always had both types of flares in my boats and I never thought to teach my family how to use a flare or thought about what is the best delivery method for them to safely use a flare. Just to correct any misunderstanding I have an orange flag, a strobe, a VHF/DSC radio, an EPIRB, a battery operated hand held VHF, a GPS chart plotter, a battery operated hand held chart plotter, a horn and I have whistles. My family has been taught how to use all of those devices. I am just unsure about which type of flares are best for me to carry around especially with regards to training my family on their usage. I think that what I am hearing so far is that given a choice most people would prefer to have a hand held flare rather than a flare gun because the hand held lasts longer and I guess for an adult they are not that hard to use. So maybe I should not teach my kids about flares and just stick with their current training on the non-pyrotechnic devices.
daveweight	posted 02-09-2010 04:17 AM ET (US) Maybe think on putting a welders gauntlet in with your flares, if you are nervous of the kids dropping them. You sound way more prepared than most boaters I come across. Dave Weight
high sierra	posted 02-09-2010 02:53 PM ET (US) SOLAS of course. high sierra