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Author Topic:   Montauk 17: Tow with a Subaru Outback

calypsoct posted 03-01-2010 04:25 PM ET (US)
I'm considering a BW Montauk 17. Can I tow it with an AWD Subaru Outback with a trailer hitch? My towing capacity is 3000 lbs. I don't want to ruin my vehicle, but don't really want to buy an SUV or truck either - thanks for any opinions.
Jeff posted 03-01-2010 04:48 PM ET (US)
I towed my 17' Newport with my Subaru Forester XT 2.5 Liter Turbo with a 5 speed transmission for the last 2 years and over many many miles. It did just fine though I never pulled it over mountains, or trhough mountain-like terrain. Though in northern Michigan there is a lot of hilly and some steep terrain.
The typical weekend trip consisted of about 180 to 200 miles one-way. The car was packed with two adults, one Child, twp Dogs (one large one small), a car topper full of suitcases and gear, and the boat packed with boat stuff, two mountain bikes and a child trailer. Sometimes a wagon as well.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ YbTN73SFgYWeKlh5rUsf-Q?feat=directlink
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ WQwut4mFiORvvM7ufOM4eA?feat=directlink
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30292162&l=15eea0a6e8& id=1001793531
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30194199&l=4084800ab1& id=1001793531

What motor is in your Subie? What transmission do you have? There is a member here who uses his 2.5 liter normally aspirated automatic Outback to pull his 18 Outrage short distances with relative ease.
Over the years though I have used a Chevy S-10 with a 4.3l V6, 2 Pontiac Grand Prixs with the standard 3.8l V6's, and a Satrun L300 Wagon to pull our old Montauk all over the Great Lakes with ease. Your Subie Outback will do just fine.
The best word of caution though is to run RedLine Shock proof transmission fluid in the trans and a high quality synthetic gear lube in the rear diff. Change both about 25,000 - 40,000 miles if you are doing a lot of towing.

bikingart posted 03-01-2010 05:01 PM ET (US)
I have towed a classic Montauk for years with Subarus and have been well pleased. Their specs suggest trailer brakes on a rig over 1000# and I have stainless disc brakes on my trailer. Total rig was 2050# on a truck scale.
My current Outback has the 3.0 6 cylinder, but I have many miles with the 2.5 4 cylinder as well. I over maintain my fluids and pamper my cars which serve me well. Milage is way down when towing, but the all wheel drive is nice on a slippery ramp. I enjoy driving these cars when driving without a trailer which is most of the time. I have been the SUV and pickup route, but I prefer the handling of a more responsive vehicle. A subjective opinion for sure.
Good luck.
Art
mgeiger posted 03-01-2010 05:06 PM ET (US)
Is that 3000 capacity with trailer brakes? Some makes have that as a small asterisk in the owners manual.
mgeiger posted 03-01-2010 05:09 PM ET (US)
Ha. Art beat me to it. Typing on an iPhone on a bouncing commuter bus is tough!
calypsoct posted 03-01-2010 05:12 PM ET (US)
Thank you for your opinions - this is very encouraging! My Outback is a 2.5 liter, 4 speed automatic transmission. I will have to check the manual as to the trailer brakes - thanks for mentioning that.
I like to fish and dive, and want a boat I can take to various locations - mostly from the central CT shoreline area, along the CT shoreline to areas in RI (Newport RI). Not really any extremely hilly terrain, and most of the ramps are very good/not too steep.
I don't have a hitch on my vehicle yet, will need to have one put on. Are there any suggestions as to a hitch?
I figured out the Montauk hull is 950lbs, and the Suzuki 70hp engine is 335 - that's 1285 - then add a trailer and gear and I think I would be OK.
thanks again!
Buckda posted 03-01-2010 06:14 PM ET (US)
I don’t know where they get a 3,000 lb tow rating with the following numbers:
GCWR (2009) – 6207 lbs
GVWR (2009) - 4350 lbs
Curb Weight (2010) – 3495 lbs
Let me step back and define some of these terms so we’re talking about the same thing:
A vehicle's GCWR is a specific weight determined by the manufacturer to be the maximum weight of a loaded tow vehicle and its attached loaded trailer. The total weight of the tow vehicle and trailer should never exceed the manufacturer's listed GCWR. According to Ford Motor Company, the GCWR is calculated by adding the following weights together: The vehicle's listed curb weight, allowable payload, driver and passenger weight and trailer weight.
You can think of the GVWR as a weight limit for your specific vehicle -- a weight limit set by the automaker. Gross vehicle weight ratings take into account the base curb weight of the vehicle plus the weight of any optional accessories, cargo and passengers.
Your tires also play an important role in how much you can safely tow. Check your tire weight rating to determine how much tongue weight, plus passengers and gear, your Outback can handle on the rear axles.
So, how does Subaru come up with a 3,000 lb tow rating when the GCWR minus the curb weight of the base vehicle equals about 1,800 lbs?
I have no idea.
Especially when you consider that you (180 lbs), your beautiful, super model wife (90 lbs) and your golden retriever (60 lbs) require about (100 lbs) of clothing and gear for a typical boating trip, plus the fuel in the car (18 gallons at 6lbs/gallon = 108 lbs)…meaning that 538 lbs of that rating is “eaten” by the passengers and gear in the vehicle, leaving you with slightly more than 1,250 lbs allowance for your trailer.
Will your Subaru “move and stop” a Montauk towed rig? I have no doubt. People “overload” their tow vehicles all the time. Here’s what’s most important:
1.) you’ve opened a big wide hole for your insurer to wiggle out of paying a claim should the unthinkable happen.
2.) as mentioned, you will need to be quite vigilant with aggressive maintenance (fluid changes, upgraded brakes with vented rotors, superior (synthetic) brake fluid to handle the heat, etc).
3.) you should put brakes on your trailer – priority.

Towing safely is important. In today’s world, being “green” may outweigh the safety factor. Who can tell? My recommendation is a mid-sized SUV – even a junker that sits in the garage – to do the tow duty.
I just moved up from an 18’ Outrage to a 22’ Guardian, and when I weight the rig, I’ll do this exact calculation. The reality is that even for my F-150, this may require some upgraded gear to accommodate the extra load.
Good luck!

ScottS posted 03-01-2010 10:02 PM ET (US)
I have a 2008 Outback with the 2.4 liter 4 cyinder (non-turbo). It tows my 2004 150 Sport with no problems. I regularly take it on 2 hour trips and have gone as far as 4 hours on the highway. I do not have trailer brakes, but stopping seems good. I estimate my fully loaded trailer to weigh between 1800 and 1900 pounds (with fuel, gear, etc.). This is within 100 pounds or so of a 2001 or older Montauk. I do not think I could tow a 2002 or newer 170 Montauk (weight increases 500 lbs+).
You should be fine towing a 2001 or older Montauk, but check your Outback's towing capacity again before trying to tow something bigger. The 4 cylinder from 2005 through 2010 has a towing capacity of 2700 lbs (1000 w/o brakes). The 6 cylinder can tow 3000 lbs (1000 w/o brakes). Prior years had lower towing capacities.
The big limitation with the Outback is the tongue weight maximum of 200 lbs. Try not to overload the front of the boat (forward of the axle) with coolers, big anchors, etc. or you may exceed that maximum. When I added a spare tire on the trailer tongue I got to 190 lbs, so I moved the spare right in front of the fender to bring the tongue weight back to 184 lbs. Don't expect to fill up the front of the boat with stuff and put heavy gear in the back of the Outback. Check your tongue weight and adjust the axle if needed (search this site for help).
Good luck in your search for a Montauk! Depending on your needs, you might also consider a 150 Sport or 150 Montauk.
ScottS
Tom W Clark posted 03-01-2010 10:12 PM ET (US)
Suburu Outback? No problem. Towing a classic Montauk with one will be child's play for it.
I do agree with Scott's caveat, but there is no reason on Earth a classic Montauk should have a tongue weight in excess of 200 pounds.
whalerdude posted 03-02-2010 07:41 AM ET (US)
I had a 2006 Subaru Outback 2.5 with the factory trailer hitch.
I towed my 2006 170 Montauk with no problem. The mileage dropped from about 26 mpg highway to 15mpg while towing however.
I was surprised how well tlhe 4 cylinder engine performed.
You will be fine with this tow vehicle and your Montauk
gnr posted 03-02-2010 08:54 AM ET (US)
It can but should it?
It will be right up against the limit for that vehicle.
The tail WILL wag the dog if/when you get yourself in that predicament at 60+ mph on the highway.
Buckda is right on the money with his informative post.
Towing with a little car like that is like going offshore with just enough fuel to get you straight out and straigt back. Probably do ok most of the time but when you really need it you won't have it.
I wouldn't touch a used car that I knew had been used to tow right up to it's capacity.
We had a 98 Forester for a while. I hooked my 17 up to it once. Once was enough. It most certainly was not child's play.
Hal Watkins posted 03-02-2010 09:24 AM ET (US)
I have pulled our 170 Montauk, (2340#) with an '02 2.5L, 5 spd Outback. Low is not low enough on steep ramps. I always felt like I was slipping the clutch too much. Once on a steep, wet tramp, I smoked all four, much to the thrill of the crowd.
I have been pulling trailers for 40 years. I was always concerned with the push of the load. In corners, it wanted to push the rear end out of the turn. I would hate to have to make an emergency stop while in a turn. Subaru's run with more RPM than a Honda/Toyota but running into a stiff wind will cause you to run in 4th to maintain 55.
Practice a few "quick" stops to test your skill at keeping the rig under control. I always felt being close to "maxxed out" with the Outback and 2340# behind me.
Hal, Waseca, Mn
calypsoct posted 03-02-2010 09:30 AM ET (US)
Well, I checked the manual. I apologize for the oversight - the towing capacity is indeed listed at 2000#, not 3000# as I'd noted. My vehicle is a 2002 model. And it also stipulates trailer brakes for loads over 1000#. I appreciate all your thoughts At 2000# I'm right around the max out point- will require more consideration it seems.
calypsoct posted 03-02-2010 09:33 AM ET (US)
The BW montauk 17 is a 1990, I looked on NADA and it had the hull weight at 950. It seems newer models are heavier?
Buckda posted 03-02-2010 09:59 AM ET (US)
What does your manual list as the GCWR? Also, the trim level of your vehicle will determine/impact the rating (for instance, I have a SUPER CREW (4-door) 4x4, LARIAT F-150 with 20-inch rims. All factors reduce my tow rating somewhat from the base 2WD, standard cab model.
If you have a more luxurious trim, (Heavier curb weight), your GCWR will be reduced.
Also note: that My truck is rated to tow 8,000 lbs, but when you factor the 20 inch rims and my standard load in the truck, and then do the GCVWR calculation, you come up with a max trailer weight of 7,100 lbs.
Don't let the marketing department obfuscate what the engineers who actually do the math are telling you.
Tom W Clark posted 03-02-2010 10:03 AM ET (US)
The 1990 Montauk weighs 900 pounds per Boston Whaler. It is a completely different, and significantly lighter, boat than the current Montauk 170.
Wasatch Whaler posted 03-02-2010 11:10 AM ET (US)
I would strongly suggest you add a high quality auxiliary transmission cooler if you are going to tow anything.
Heat is a huge enemy of automatic transmissions and towing causes the transmission to run hotter. If your present transmission fluid is not full synthetic I would suggest you switch to that as well.
My experience with one Subaru was that it was economical to drive, but parts and service were not cheap. I wouldn't want to be buying a new transmission for one...
69boo307 posted 03-02-2010 12:08 PM ET (US)
Here's another vote for "you could, but it's a bad idea".
I can't imagine towing a 17' with a car of any kind. Even if the brakes are up to the task, a car is just too light for a tow vehicle. If something happens to the trailer during towing you would be in big trouble. The car simply doesn't have enough mass, and consequently enough momentum, to overcome the momentum of the trailer if it decides to head in a different direction.
It's just basic physics. An object in motion tends to stay in motion, and it tends to keep moving in the direction it is moving. Changing that direction require Force, which equals Mass x Acceleration. Where the car is lacking is in the Mass department, when it comes to influencing the motion of the trailer.
Buckda posted 03-02-2010 12:27 PM ET (US)
Let's look at a realistic weight for a well-appointed 17' Montauk rig:
1.) Hull - assume no bottom paint and excellent condition: 950 lbs
2.) Engine and battery - around 350 lbs
3.) Fuel - around 125 lbs
4.) Anchor, chain and rode - around 75 lbs
5.) Safety gear (Fire extinguisher, flares, life jackets), and basic "stuff" - 50 lbs
6.) Fishing gear, downriggers, weights - 50 lbs
7.) Cooler, ice, beer/soda, snacks - 50 lbs
What are we up to? 1,650.
Now let's add the trailer and a spare tire: around 500 lbs. You're right at the maximum capacity listed by the manufacturer for towing, and well over the max GCWR...without a driver gas or anything in the car.
So I'd say you're pushing the limits of what this vehicle's engineers/designers designed it to handle.

skred posted 03-02-2010 02:29 PM ET (US)
I have to add this:
I have a 2005 Outback Impreza Sport (that's the smaller Outback) AWD, Boxer 4 Cylinder, 172 HP rated, and the fatory tow capacity is 3,500 lbs. I've towed up to 2,500 and never had a problem on handling, power, or braking (no trailer brakes). Been doing this for 5 years: trips of up to 300 miles one way.
Also, I've posted this before:
I towed my 1992 Montauk with a 90 outboard with my former NEON 2-door coupe. Car specs: 175 hp, front wheel drive, stick shift. I admit I only had to trailer it 3 miles to the launch, so it wasn't a big deal. But, I also trailered that boat 450 miles round-trip way at least 3 times a season, and never had a braking, handling or pulling problem. (I did keep my speed to 55-60 mph).
Some will say I took some risks, and some will say I'm crazy, but I'm one of the apparent minority who don't have the financial security to pony up the cash for an F150 or some similar vehicle as an "extra" vehicle with which to simply tow a boat.
Jeff posted 03-02-2010 02:33 PM ET (US)
Theories when put into to practice are not always proven to be true.
You can talk yourselves in circles about what you think could, would or should happen.
I have towed 17' Whaler hulls with a Subaru and many other mid size cars over many many thousands of miles. In my opinion of them all the Subaru was by far the best mid sized vehicle. It was like a sure footed mountain goat at the ramp when retrieving the boat from the water. It tracked like an arrow on the highway and never felt like the boat and trailer were steering the car. Best of all was it had plenty of room to haul the family, animals and all the other gack.
You will never know how well it will work for you until you actually try it.
Some other things I would recommend along with the fluids I mentioned above would be:
#1 Upgrade your brakes pads. I recommend Hawk HP plus or Carbotech panther plus for your car.
#2 Replace your brake fluid with a DOT 4 synthetic from ATE, Motul, Havoline, or Total (eurospec)
#3 This is not a have to but, if you wish to upgrade you rotors look into PowerSlot slotted rottors. Do not get the cross drilled nor cross drilled and slotted rotors. Because you will not always be running the rotors in the high temp ranges for long heat cycles the crossdrilled rotos have a greater likelihood of cracking.
I have run Hawk HP plus and Havoline DOT 4 with stock rotors in Subarus both on the track as well as on the street for towing. The stock brakes will stop just fine for everyday towing but, I always gave myself plenty of room for slop just in case with them. Also, the stock brakes would "likely" stop well once in an emergency. After that the pads and rotors would be glazed and the fluid is likely cooked. You are better off having equipment on the car that car handle the high temps of repeated heavy stopping.
If you have questions about what to do, or upgrade on the car please feel free to contact me through email. While Whalers are my passion in the Marine world, Subaru's are my passion when it comes to cars, racing and rallying. I would be happy to point you in the direction for sourcing parts, as well as other Subaru sites where the users know and have experience about towing with these vehicles.
Cheers,
Jeff
Buckda posted 03-02-2010 02:47 PM ET (US)
Skred -
You need not spend a lot of money on the tow vehicle.
There are a LOT of vehicles available on short money that would do the job of towing just fine and would add minimal dollar amounts to your insurance.
Here's a nice truck right close to you for under $6K.
http:/ / www. cars. com/ go/ search/ detail. jsp?tracktype=usedcc& csDlI d=& csDgId=& listingId=38201758& listingRecNum=282& criteria=prMx%3D6000 %26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26mkId%3D20015%26stkTyp%3DU%26rd%3D100000%26 crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D60601%26rn%3D250% 26PMmt%3D1-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm %3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20015%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705& aff=national
Here's perhaps a better deal: http:/ / www. cars. com/ go/ search/ detail. jsp?tracktype=usedcc& csDlI d=& csDgId=& listingId=37226152& listingRecNum=4763& criteria=prMx%3D600 0%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26mkId%3D20015%26stkTyp%3DU%26rd%3D100000%2 6crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D60601%26rn%3D475 0%26PMmt%3D1-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2 Nm%3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20015%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705& aff=national
I'm sure your local Craig's List can provide you with other, even less expensive options.
I'm just saying.
To be clear, I only recommended the second vehicle because the OP doesn't want to give up his Subaru.
That's fine with me.
I drive my F-150 as a daily driver.
Dave
Tohsgib posted 03-02-2010 02:57 PM ET (US)
You will be fine. If you don't have a trailer, get an aluminum one as it is a couple hundred less than galv.
190Montauk posted 03-04-2010 07:15 AM ET (US)
I towed a ~2000 lb car-on-trailer with mine and it was OK if you are intelligent about it. After upgrading the suspension to a 'sport' package it was very stable at all speeds.
Certain 2002 models were recalled for a weak head gasket, I would look into that.
meridian posted 03-04-2010 04:25 PM ET (US)
I tow my Montauk with a V6 Rav/4. I can't even feel it when towing, but I sure know it's back there when I apply the brakes. It does take longer.
skred posted 03-12-2010 04:36 PM ET (US)
Dave:
Re: your post:
"You need not spend a lot of money on the tow vehicle.
"You need not spend a lot of money on the tow vehicle.
There are a LOT of vehicles available on short money that would do the job of towing just fine and would add minimal dollar amounts to your insurance."
I agree completely with your observations. I - however - choose to spend $0.00 on an additional vehicle when the one I own has safely and efficiently fulfilled all my needs. Besides, I can apply the money saved toward my "4-foot-itis".... (grin..)
If I had the cash, I'd grab your Outrage hull today.....!


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Author	Topic: Montauk 17: Tow with a Subaru Outback
calypsoct	posted 03-01-2010 04:25 PM ET (US) I'm considering a BW Montauk 17. Can I tow it with an AWD Subaru Outback with a trailer hitch? My towing capacity is 3000 lbs. I don't want to ruin my vehicle, but don't really want to buy an SUV or truck either - thanks for any opinions.
Jeff	posted 03-01-2010 04:48 PM ET (US) I towed my 17' Newport with my Subaru Forester XT 2.5 Liter Turbo with a 5 speed transmission for the last 2 years and over many many miles. It did just fine though I never pulled it over mountains, or trhough mountain-like terrain. Though in northern Michigan there is a lot of hilly and some steep terrain. The typical weekend trip consisted of about 180 to 200 miles one-way. The car was packed with two adults, one Child, twp Dogs (one large one small), a car topper full of suitcases and gear, and the boat packed with boat stuff, two mountain bikes and a child trailer. Sometimes a wagon as well. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ YbTN73SFgYWeKlh5rUsf-Q?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ WQwut4mFiORvvM7ufOM4eA?feat=directlink http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30292162&l=15eea0a6e8& id=1001793531 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30194199&l=4084800ab1& id=1001793531 What motor is in your Subie? What transmission do you have? There is a member here who uses his 2.5 liter normally aspirated automatic Outback to pull his 18 Outrage short distances with relative ease. Over the years though I have used a Chevy S-10 with a 4.3l V6, 2 Pontiac Grand Prixs with the standard 3.8l V6's, and a Satrun L300 Wagon to pull our old Montauk all over the Great Lakes with ease. Your Subie Outback will do just fine. The best word of caution though is to run RedLine Shock proof transmission fluid in the trans and a high quality synthetic gear lube in the rear diff. Change both about 25,000 - 40,000 miles if you are doing a lot of towing.
bikingart	posted 03-01-2010 05:01 PM ET (US) I have towed a classic Montauk for years with Subarus and have been well pleased. Their specs suggest trailer brakes on a rig over 1000# and I have stainless disc brakes on my trailer. Total rig was 2050# on a truck scale. My current Outback has the 3.0 6 cylinder, but I have many miles with the 2.5 4 cylinder as well. I over maintain my fluids and pamper my cars which serve me well. Milage is way down when towing, but the all wheel drive is nice on a slippery ramp. I enjoy driving these cars when driving without a trailer which is most of the time. I have been the SUV and pickup route, but I prefer the handling of a more responsive vehicle. A subjective opinion for sure. Good luck. Art
mgeiger	posted 03-01-2010 05:06 PM ET (US) Is that 3000 capacity with trailer brakes? Some makes have that as a small asterisk in the owners manual.
mgeiger	posted 03-01-2010 05:09 PM ET (US) Ha. Art beat me to it. Typing on an iPhone on a bouncing commuter bus is tough!
calypsoct	posted 03-01-2010 05:12 PM ET (US) Thank you for your opinions - this is very encouraging! My Outback is a 2.5 liter, 4 speed automatic transmission. I will have to check the manual as to the trailer brakes - thanks for mentioning that. I like to fish and dive, and want a boat I can take to various locations - mostly from the central CT shoreline area, along the CT shoreline to areas in RI (Newport RI). Not really any extremely hilly terrain, and most of the ramps are very good/not too steep. I don't have a hitch on my vehicle yet, will need to have one put on. Are there any suggestions as to a hitch? I figured out the Montauk hull is 950lbs, and the Suzuki 70hp engine is 335 - that's 1285 - then add a trailer and gear and I think I would be OK. thanks again!
Buckda	posted 03-01-2010 06:14 PM ET (US) I don’t know where they get a 3,000 lb tow rating with the following numbers: GCWR (2009) – 6207 lbs GVWR (2009) - 4350 lbs Curb Weight (2010) – 3495 lbs Let me step back and define some of these terms so we’re talking about the same thing: A vehicle's GCWR is a specific weight determined by the manufacturer to be the maximum weight of a loaded tow vehicle and its attached loaded trailer. The total weight of the tow vehicle and trailer should never exceed the manufacturer's listed GCWR. According to Ford Motor Company, the GCWR is calculated by adding the following weights together: The vehicle's listed curb weight, allowable payload, driver and passenger weight and trailer weight. You can think of the GVWR as a weight limit for your specific vehicle -- a weight limit set by the automaker. Gross vehicle weight ratings take into account the base curb weight of the vehicle plus the weight of any optional accessories, cargo and passengers. Your tires also play an important role in how much you can safely tow. Check your tire weight rating to determine how much tongue weight, plus passengers and gear, your Outback can handle on the rear axles. So, how does Subaru come up with a 3,000 lb tow rating when the GCWR minus the curb weight of the base vehicle equals about 1,800 lbs? I have no idea. Especially when you consider that you (180 lbs), your beautiful, super model wife (90 lbs) and your golden retriever (60 lbs) require about (100 lbs) of clothing and gear for a typical boating trip, plus the fuel in the car (18 gallons at 6lbs/gallon = 108 lbs)…meaning that 538 lbs of that rating is “eaten” by the passengers and gear in the vehicle, leaving you with slightly more than 1,250 lbs allowance for your trailer. Will your Subaru “move and stop” a Montauk towed rig? I have no doubt. People “overload” their tow vehicles all the time. Here’s what’s most important: 1.) you’ve opened a big wide hole for your insurer to wiggle out of paying a claim should the unthinkable happen. 2.) as mentioned, you will need to be quite vigilant with aggressive maintenance (fluid changes, upgraded brakes with vented rotors, superior (synthetic) brake fluid to handle the heat, etc). 3.) you should put brakes on your trailer – priority. Towing safely is important. In today’s world, being “green” may outweigh the safety factor. Who can tell? My recommendation is a mid-sized SUV – even a junker that sits in the garage – to do the tow duty. I just moved up from an 18’ Outrage to a 22’ Guardian, and when I weight the rig, I’ll do this exact calculation. The reality is that even for my F-150, this may require some upgraded gear to accommodate the extra load. Good luck!
ScottS	posted 03-01-2010 10:02 PM ET (US) I have a 2008 Outback with the 2.4 liter 4 cyinder (non-turbo). It tows my 2004 150 Sport with no problems. I regularly take it on 2 hour trips and have gone as far as 4 hours on the highway. I do not have trailer brakes, but stopping seems good. I estimate my fully loaded trailer to weigh between 1800 and 1900 pounds (with fuel, gear, etc.). This is within 100 pounds or so of a 2001 or older Montauk. I do not think I could tow a 2002 or newer 170 Montauk (weight increases 500 lbs+). You should be fine towing a 2001 or older Montauk, but check your Outback's towing capacity again before trying to tow something bigger. The 4 cylinder from 2005 through 2010 has a towing capacity of 2700 lbs (1000 w/o brakes). The 6 cylinder can tow 3000 lbs (1000 w/o brakes). Prior years had lower towing capacities. The big limitation with the Outback is the tongue weight maximum of 200 lbs. Try not to overload the front of the boat (forward of the axle) with coolers, big anchors, etc. or you may exceed that maximum. When I added a spare tire on the trailer tongue I got to 190 lbs, so I moved the spare right in front of the fender to bring the tongue weight back to 184 lbs. Don't expect to fill up the front of the boat with stuff and put heavy gear in the back of the Outback. Check your tongue weight and adjust the axle if needed (search this site for help). Good luck in your search for a Montauk! Depending on your needs, you might also consider a 150 Sport or 150 Montauk. ScottS
Tom W Clark	posted 03-01-2010 10:12 PM ET (US) Suburu Outback? No problem. Towing a classic Montauk with one will be child's play for it. I do agree with Scott's caveat, but there is no reason on Earth a classic Montauk should have a tongue weight in excess of 200 pounds.
whalerdude	posted 03-02-2010 07:41 AM ET (US) I had a 2006 Subaru Outback 2.5 with the factory trailer hitch. I towed my 2006 170 Montauk with no problem. The mileage dropped from about 26 mpg highway to 15mpg while towing however. I was surprised how well tlhe 4 cylinder engine performed. You will be fine with this tow vehicle and your Montauk
gnr	posted 03-02-2010 08:54 AM ET (US) It can but should it? It will be right up against the limit for that vehicle. The tail WILL wag the dog if/when you get yourself in that predicament at 60+ mph on the highway. Buckda is right on the money with his informative post. Towing with a little car like that is like going offshore with just enough fuel to get you straight out and straigt back. Probably do ok most of the time but when you really need it you won't have it. I wouldn't touch a used car that I knew had been used to tow right up to it's capacity. We had a 98 Forester for a while. I hooked my 17 up to it once. Once was enough. It most certainly was not child's play.
Hal Watkins	posted 03-02-2010 09:24 AM ET (US) I have pulled our 170 Montauk, (2340#) with an '02 2.5L, 5 spd Outback. Low is not low enough on steep ramps. I always felt like I was slipping the clutch too much. Once on a steep, wet tramp, I smoked all four, much to the thrill of the crowd. I have been pulling trailers for 40 years. I was always concerned with the push of the load. In corners, it wanted to push the rear end out of the turn. I would hate to have to make an emergency stop while in a turn. Subaru's run with more RPM than a Honda/Toyota but running into a stiff wind will cause you to run in 4th to maintain 55. Practice a few "quick" stops to test your skill at keeping the rig under control. I always felt being close to "maxxed out" with the Outback and 2340# behind me. Hal, Waseca, Mn
calypsoct	posted 03-02-2010 09:30 AM ET (US) Well, I checked the manual. I apologize for the oversight - the towing capacity is indeed listed at 2000#, not 3000# as I'd noted. My vehicle is a 2002 model. And it also stipulates trailer brakes for loads over 1000#. I appreciate all your thoughts At 2000# I'm right around the max out point- will require more consideration it seems.
calypsoct	posted 03-02-2010 09:33 AM ET (US) The BW montauk 17 is a 1990, I looked on NADA and it had the hull weight at 950. It seems newer models are heavier?
Buckda	posted 03-02-2010 09:59 AM ET (US) What does your manual list as the GCWR? Also, the trim level of your vehicle will determine/impact the rating (for instance, I have a SUPER CREW (4-door) 4x4, LARIAT F-150 with 20-inch rims. All factors reduce my tow rating somewhat from the base 2WD, standard cab model. If you have a more luxurious trim, (Heavier curb weight), your GCWR will be reduced. Also note: that My truck is rated to tow 8,000 lbs, but when you factor the 20 inch rims and my standard load in the truck, and then do the GCVWR calculation, you come up with a max trailer weight of 7,100 lbs. Don't let the marketing department obfuscate what the engineers who actually do the math are telling you.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-02-2010 10:03 AM ET (US) The 1990 Montauk weighs 900 pounds per Boston Whaler. It is a completely different, and significantly lighter, boat than the current Montauk 170.
Wasatch Whaler	posted 03-02-2010 11:10 AM ET (US) I would strongly suggest you add a high quality auxiliary transmission cooler if you are going to tow anything. Heat is a huge enemy of automatic transmissions and towing causes the transmission to run hotter. If your present transmission fluid is not full synthetic I would suggest you switch to that as well. My experience with one Subaru was that it was economical to drive, but parts and service were not cheap. I wouldn't want to be buying a new transmission for one...
69boo307	posted 03-02-2010 12:08 PM ET (US) Here's another vote for "you could, but it's a bad idea". I can't imagine towing a 17' with a car of any kind. Even if the brakes are up to the task, a car is just too light for a tow vehicle. If something happens to the trailer during towing you would be in big trouble. The car simply doesn't have enough mass, and consequently enough momentum, to overcome the momentum of the trailer if it decides to head in a different direction. It's just basic physics. An object in motion tends to stay in motion, and it tends to keep moving in the direction it is moving. Changing that direction require Force, which equals Mass x Acceleration. Where the car is lacking is in the Mass department, when it comes to influencing the motion of the trailer.
Buckda	posted 03-02-2010 12:27 PM ET (US) Let's look at a realistic weight for a well-appointed 17' Montauk rig: 1.) Hull - assume no bottom paint and excellent condition: 950 lbs 2.) Engine and battery - around 350 lbs 3.) Fuel - around 125 lbs 4.) Anchor, chain and rode - around 75 lbs 5.) Safety gear (Fire extinguisher, flares, life jackets), and basic "stuff" - 50 lbs 6.) Fishing gear, downriggers, weights - 50 lbs 7.) Cooler, ice, beer/soda, snacks - 50 lbs What are we up to? 1,650. Now let's add the trailer and a spare tire: around 500 lbs. You're right at the maximum capacity listed by the manufacturer for towing, and well over the max GCWR...without a driver gas or anything in the car. So I'd say you're pushing the limits of what this vehicle's engineers/designers designed it to handle.
skred	posted 03-02-2010 02:29 PM ET (US) I have to add this: I have a 2005 Outback Impreza Sport (that's the smaller Outback) AWD, Boxer 4 Cylinder, 172 HP rated, and the fatory tow capacity is 3,500 lbs. I've towed up to 2,500 and never had a problem on handling, power, or braking (no trailer brakes). Been doing this for 5 years: trips of up to 300 miles one way. Also, I've posted this before: I towed my 1992 Montauk with a 90 outboard with my former NEON 2-door coupe. Car specs: 175 hp, front wheel drive, stick shift. I admit I only had to trailer it 3 miles to the launch, so it wasn't a big deal. But, I also trailered that boat 450 miles round-trip way at least 3 times a season, and never had a braking, handling or pulling problem. (I did keep my speed to 55-60 mph). Some will say I took some risks, and some will say I'm crazy, but I'm one of the apparent minority who don't have the financial security to pony up the cash for an F150 or some similar vehicle as an "extra" vehicle with which to simply tow a boat.
Jeff	posted 03-02-2010 02:33 PM ET (US) Theories when put into to practice are not always proven to be true. You can talk yourselves in circles about what you think could, would or should happen. I have towed 17' Whaler hulls with a Subaru and many other mid size cars over many many thousands of miles. In my opinion of them all the Subaru was by far the best mid sized vehicle. It was like a sure footed mountain goat at the ramp when retrieving the boat from the water. It tracked like an arrow on the highway and never felt like the boat and trailer were steering the car. Best of all was it had plenty of room to haul the family, animals and all the other gack. You will never know how well it will work for you until you actually try it. Some other things I would recommend along with the fluids I mentioned above would be: #1 Upgrade your brakes pads. I recommend Hawk HP plus or Carbotech panther plus for your car. #2 Replace your brake fluid with a DOT 4 synthetic from ATE, Motul, Havoline, or Total (eurospec) #3 This is not a have to but, if you wish to upgrade you rotors look into PowerSlot slotted rottors. Do not get the cross drilled nor cross drilled and slotted rotors. Because you will not always be running the rotors in the high temp ranges for long heat cycles the crossdrilled rotos have a greater likelihood of cracking. I have run Hawk HP plus and Havoline DOT 4 with stock rotors in Subarus both on the track as well as on the street for towing. The stock brakes will stop just fine for everyday towing but, I always gave myself plenty of room for slop just in case with them. Also, the stock brakes would "likely" stop well once in an emergency. After that the pads and rotors would be glazed and the fluid is likely cooked. You are better off having equipment on the car that car handle the high temps of repeated heavy stopping. If you have questions about what to do, or upgrade on the car please feel free to contact me through email. While Whalers are my passion in the Marine world, Subaru's are my passion when it comes to cars, racing and rallying. I would be happy to point you in the direction for sourcing parts, as well as other Subaru sites where the users know and have experience about towing with these vehicles. Cheers, Jeff
Buckda	posted 03-02-2010 02:47 PM ET (US) Skred - You need not spend a lot of money on the tow vehicle. There are a LOT of vehicles available on short money that would do the job of towing just fine and would add minimal dollar amounts to your insurance. Here's a nice truck right close to you for under $6K. http:/ / www. cars. com/ go/ search/ detail. jsp?tracktype=usedcc& csDlI d=& csDgId=& listingId=38201758& listingRecNum=282& criteria=prMx%3D6000 %26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26mkId%3D20015%26stkTyp%3DU%26rd%3D100000%26 crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D60601%26rn%3D250% 26PMmt%3D1-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm %3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20015%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705& aff=national Here's perhaps a better deal: http:/ / www. cars. com/ go/ search/ detail. jsp?tracktype=usedcc& csDlI d=& csDgId=& listingId=37226152& listingRecNum=4763& criteria=prMx%3D600 0%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26mkId%3D20015%26stkTyp%3DU%26rd%3D100000%2 6crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D60601%26rn%3D475 0%26PMmt%3D1-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2 Nm%3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20015%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705& aff=national I'm sure your local Craig's List can provide you with other, even less expensive options. I'm just saying. To be clear, I only recommended the second vehicle because the OP doesn't want to give up his Subaru. That's fine with me. I drive my F-150 as a daily driver. Dave
Tohsgib	posted 03-02-2010 02:57 PM ET (US) You will be fine. If you don't have a trailer, get an aluminum one as it is a couple hundred less than galv.
190Montauk	posted 03-04-2010 07:15 AM ET (US) I towed a ~2000 lb car-on-trailer with mine and it was OK if you are intelligent about it. After upgrading the suspension to a 'sport' package it was very stable at all speeds. Certain 2002 models were recalled for a weak head gasket, I would look into that.
meridian	posted 03-04-2010 04:25 PM ET (US) I tow my Montauk with a V6 Rav/4. I can't even feel it when towing, but I sure know it's back there when I apply the brakes. It does take longer.
skred	posted 03-12-2010 04:36 PM ET (US) Dave: Re: your post: "You need not spend a lot of money on the tow vehicle. "You need not spend a lot of money on the tow vehicle. There are a LOT of vehicles available on short money that would do the job of towing just fine and would add minimal dollar amounts to your insurance." I agree completely with your observations. I - however - choose to spend $0.00 on an additional vehicle when the one I own has safely and efficiently fulfilled all my needs. Besides, I can apply the money saved toward my "4-foot-itis".... (grin..) If I had the cash, I'd grab your Outrage hull today.....!