posted 08-04-2010 11:41 AM ET (US)            

XD-50 oil will reduce an deliminate the need to use carbon guard in your gasoline, as it burns very clean. If you use XD-30 or standard TC-W3 oil, you will need to run carbon cleaner in your fuel.

posted 08-04-2010 11:43 AM ET (US)            

Van's in Grand Rapids sells bulk XD-50. Unfortunately, it's not a great deal at $30 a gallon. I buy my oil, when I can, from Lockeman's in Detroit. Bulk XD-50 is $22.50 a gallon.

If you end up across the state, it's worth the detour to buy the oil from them.

Not sure who sells it in Holland, but forum member mateobosch in Holland can probably give you a source there - but I think he runs XD-100 in his E-TEC.

posted 08-04-2010 12:06 PM ET (US)            

Bucka if you get over this way give a shout.

posted 08-04-2010 06:07 PM ET (US)         

OMC's oil, prior to the bankruptcy, was supplied by Ashland-Valvoline. They showed up as a huge creditor in the filing. Don't know if BRP has kept up that relationship, but it could be possible.

Don't know who does Mercury's oil, but I have suspected Pennzoil or Quaker State. (my hunch only - don't start a rumor on this, please)

I have always been amazed at how well the engine companies keep these confidentiality agreements secret. They must deliver the stuff in the middle of the night in unmarked vehicles! Somewhere, with all the custom bottling and packaging, you'd think some employee at the bottle manufacturer, or oil packager, would get the information out.

posted 08-05-2010 08:51 AM ET (US)            

You state that the Wal-Mart fully synthetic oil is $24/gallon.

I pay 22.55 a gallon (bulk) for fully synthetic XD-50.

Who is overpriced?

posted 08-05-2010 11:43 AM ET (US)            

In older out boards, burn what you want, but I do suggest keeping with the same brand if possible. New Direct Injected engines, buy the recommend oil, they use so little oil, it is not that big of an expense.

posted 08-05-2010 11:43 AM ET (US)            

But I recently switched back to the OMC/BRP brand and its been my experience my motor doesn't smoke much at all like it did using the Wal-Mart brand.

posted 08-06-2010 01:42 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Anyone running Amzoil ?

---

Do you mean Amsoil? With an "s" instead of a "z"? Amsoil is well regarded by us in the amateur road racing community. This is of course, 4-stroke-automotive engine oil. I don't know if it's correct to assume that because the auto oil is good, the 2-stroke outboard oil is also good, if the price was right, I'd take that chance myself.

posted 08-07-2010 08:37 AM ET (US)            

This can only mean one thing: It's not that critical what you use, as long as you use something.

Stands to reason that people support as "best" whatever they have used with success, thus the wide diversity of opinion.

Dave

posted 08-07-2010 09:41 AM ET (US)            

When using generic 100% dino oil, however, it is often necessary to decarbonize the engine periodically unless some additive is added to the fuel. Spark plug life may be shortened when using 100% dino oil. Exhaust smoke is usually present.

Part or 100% synthetic TC-W3 oil used in the aforementioned engines may eliminate the need to decarbonize engines, extend spark plug life, and reduce exhaust smoke. An additive may not be needed when using synthetic oil.

The use of generic oil is probably not the best option with Direct Fuel Injected (DFI) engines . Having enjoyed the experience of operating a DFI two stroke engine for ten plus years using only the manufacturers recommended oil I have concluded that is the best course of action with DFI engines. My experience was having an engine that never required a repair, never smoked, and never even had a layer of carbon on the propeller. The only maintence the engine received was to periodically replace the spark plugs, water pump impeller, and lower unit oil.

posted 08-07-2010 10:12 AM ET (US)            

With the Evinrude E-TEC engine, if the recommended manufacturer's oil, XD100, is used, the rate of oil use can be reduced by half, which cuts the cost in half as well.

I also find it somewhat incongruous that users of the least-expensive, no-brand lubricant often simultaneous recommend use of boutique manufacturer-branded fuel additives to reduce the occurrence of carbon build-up in the engine. If you factor in the cost of the boutique manufacturer-branded fuel additives--which are often priced at $17-per-pint--into the cost of consumables, the price of gasoline, oil, and additives will often be as much or greater than use of the recommended manufacturer's oil without all the home-brew fuel chemistry of adding this and that additive.

posted 08-08-2010 09:21 AM ET (US)            

What do you estimate the cost is for every decarbonizing treatment on your engines? Are you using Sea Foam?

What was Evinrude's recommendation for fuel for your cross flows?

posted 08-08-2010 04:10 PM ET (US)            

Some manufacture's recommend their premium oil and still recommend the additives.

posted 08-08-2010 05:35 PM ET (US)            

$30/1-gallon-oil x 1-gallon-oil/100-gallons-gasoline = $0.30/1-gallon-gasoline

Now we compare the cost to the boutique manufacturer-branded additives at $17-pint or $136-gallon. I believe one ounce of additive treats one gallon, or roughly a ratio of 128:1

$136/1-gallon-additive x 1-gallon-additive/128-gallons-gasoline = $1.06/gallon-gasoline

Now my "overpriced" oil costs me $0.30 per gallon of gasoline while the boutique fuel additive cost others $1.06 per gallon of gasoline. Perhaps the habitual use of the additive can allow it to be used in lower concentration. Let's say we cut the additive concentration in half. That lowers its cost to $0.53 per gallon of gasoline. I did not study economics under Keynes at Harvard, but that still sounds like it is twice as expensive as my "overpriced" oil.

Oh, by the way, I still have not added any of the stinky blue WALMART cheapo oil to the fuel, so you have to figure that cost and add it to the other side. Let's say we catch a sale at WALMART and get their no-brand oil for $10-gallon--quite a bargain compared to my $30-gallon "overpriced" oil, eh?

Now we add the no-brand at 50:1

$10/1-gallon-oil x 1 gallon-oil/50-gallon-gasoline = $0.20/gallon-gasoline

posted 08-08-2010 06:31 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Peter,
What do you estimate the cost is for every decarbonizing treatment on your engines? Are you using Sea Foam?

What was Evinrude's recommendation for fuel for your cross flows?

Butch

---

For my big crossflows, I use a whole can of Sea Foam, the regular stuff, not the, pay-more-get-less, Deep Creep. I buy it when it goes on sale at NAPA. This last fall, it was $6.50/can. Regular price is like $11.00.

However, for my Precision Blend(TM), oil injected Yamaha 40, (which is on my 1985 Sport 13), I also decarbed my chainsaw, leaf blower, string trimmer, and 25cc folding scooter, in addtion to the Yamaha... all out of the same can.

Not sure the _required_ fuel for the '70's crossflows because I only have the Seloc manual for those. I can email you offline some linked info from the fastboaters forum where they talk about it.

Tohsgib... As for the fuel in my mid-70's, high compression crossflows? 91 is all we have here in the southwest. There is no 93 where I go boating. FWIW, I don't use straight race gas. I mix it down to something in the mid-90's. I keep hearing again and again that 91 is marginal, and I'm just not comfortable that close to the edge. As an anecdote, in the fastboat community, the mid-70's heads are sought after by the "hot rodders", because of their high compression. Remember, higher octane fuel was the norm back in the 70's. Are you _sure_ you would run 91 in a '75 135hp model like mine? Further, this boat sits a lot at the wife's grandparents house where we use it for fresh water lake/river boating. Sits up to 3 months are possible and 1 month sits are the norm, so at least some degradation in octane is a factor. I use Stabil in every tank, no matter what, to help with that. (Whoops, I guess that puts the lie to me when I said I don't use additives, but Stabil is pretty cheap).

My third crossflow is a 1993 with VRO and all the bells and whistles. It's sitting on a stand as a spare, right now, but I think I can run 87 in that one.

posted 08-09-2010 03:30 AM ET (US)         

But anyway, let's try again on the conventional engines, none of which use oil at 100 to 1 ratio except on idle.
But even with that technology advantage, the oil cost of running an E-tec on XD100 is more than running an old oil injected throwback carbureted 2-stroke.

My oil injected 2-stroke Mercs use oil at somewhere around 55-75 ratios, depending on averaged engine speed. So lets say a gallon of Walmart's Pennzoil 2-stroke oil costs your quoted $10. That will treat about 65 gallons of gas, or about 15 cents/gallon. Now let's use Mercury's botique QuickClean, a highly effective engine cleaner and decarbonizer. Almost everyone says it's really good. A $12 bottle, needed every 4th fillup according to my highly regarded Mercury mechanic, treats 80 gallons of gas, as shown on the bottle. So for every 320 gallons of gas, I have to spend another $12 for Quickclean, or 3 cents/gallon. So running an old 2-stroke, and keeping it clean, costs a total of about 18 cents/gallon of fuel. let's be generaous, and raise that to 20 cents/gallon of fuel.

Hence oil cost for running an E-tec on XD 100 is 50% more than oil cost for running an old conventional oil injected 2-stroke.

When you run that "snake oil" high priced XD100 you really don't know what you're getting or what's in it. When you run Walmart/Pennzoil 2-stroke oil you also don't know what you're getting. But with the addition of Quickclean, you KNOW what you're getting. So Walmart plus Quickclean really is a bargain to keep your engine in great running condition and decarbonized.

posted 08-09-2010 08:36 AM ET (US)            

"When you run that "snake oil" high priced XD100 you really don't know what you're getting...."

posted 08-09-2010 09:20 AM ET (US)            

The West Marine stuff isnt too bad. (only buy it on sale) I have it on the boat as a backup just in case. As for the Wally World stuff. Again for me good in a pinch but use it mainly to mix with my lawnboy mower, weed wacker etc.

posted 08-09-2010 10:20 AM ET (US)         

The difference between the premium hamburger buns and the bottom shelf economy branded hamburger buns was the bag they were packaged in.

posted 08-09-2010 01:04 PM ET (US)            

Part of the marketing plan is probably a draw to bring customers back to the dealership to buy consumables. This brings traffic into the dealership and adds to dealer sales.

posted 08-09-2010 03:53 PM ET (US)            

A lot seems to boil down to whether or not premium oil users are comfortable NOT decarboning. For my part, I lack that confidence. Since I'm going to decarbon my motors anyway, I use whatever TCW3 is selling for a good price.

I've never conducted back to back "smokiness" tests with cheap TCW3 versus premium stuff, and I probably won't because my sensibilities cannot make ordinary 2-stroke smoke register above a "0", on my self-designed, "give-a-crap" scale. That said, I did use a gallon of Quicksilver oil, instead of my usual WalMart oil, and if there was a difference, it was not obvious enough to detect it.

posted 08-09-2010 06:43 PM ET (US)         

Besides brands, there are three TYPES of oil to consider using:

1. Pure oil TCW-3, like Mercury Premium, XD-30 or Yamalube.
Generally not recommended for DFI's

2. Part synthetic mixtures, usually billed as lower in smoke, such as Mercury Premium Plus, XD-50, Pennzoil XLF, CAblea's etc, etc. Highly recommended for conventional 2-strokes, and can be used in all DFI's.

3. High priced full synthetic oils, usually recommended as the premium oil for DFI 2-strokes, such as Mercury "Optimax" oil, Evinrude XD-100, Pennzoil 100% synthetic, etc, etc. Not necessary or even recommended for conventional 2-strokes. I have seen Pennzoil full synthetic for about $26/gallon.

I have been using the #2 type, since it gives conventional 2-strokes less start-up and idle speed smoke. Using this oil, except for higher gasoline consumption, one can barely tell a regular 2-stroke relief port exhaust from a DFI.

posted 08-09-2010 10:36 PM ET (US)            

All BRP oils are made by CASTROL for BRP.

All Yamaha oils are made by "CITGO" for Yamaha.

Mercury (Quicksilver) oils are much more complicated. They seem to have diffent suppliers for product sold in the United States compared to Canada. The Mercury distributed in the United States are all "CITGO" products escept the 2-cycle high performance, as in racing, whichis made by SPECTRO. In Canada, the 25/40 oil for IO's comes frp, ESSO CANADA, and all the other oils seem to come from SHRADER CANADA LTD.

I also noted that "QUICKCLEEN" and "RING FREE", both come from GOLD EAGLE, and have no reference to CHEVRON or TECHRON. GOLD EAGLE is best known for STABIL.

posted 08-09-2010 10:43 PM ET (US)            

YAMAHA now recommends that we use STARTRON to help protect against damage from ethanol. This the first time they have recommended a product that they do not make a profit on!

posted 08-11-2010 08:42 AM ET (US)            

I'm no oil scientist but it appears the person providing comments on the results sheets may very well be. Based on the comments provided and the specific analytical results I think LHG's summary is correct. There appears to be little more than slight viscosity differences between Supertech, the Pennzoil, and the XD 50 samples. They're all dry, clean, have similar flashpoints, minimal additives, and similar composition as far as the measured analytes are concerned. I am currently assuming that the analyte list is appropriate and typical though more research would obviously verify.

posted 08-11-2010 09:10 AM ET (US)         

quote:

---

There isn't much difference between the others, so I would probably go with whichever one was cheapest price-wise.

---

Taken from the posted link.

FYI. I not a scientist nor a gullible victim of marketing.

posted 08-11-2010 09:13 AM ET (US)            

2-stroke oils are a different breed as they have to be burned and not leave damaging deposits on the piston, heads, and ports.

At 6000 rpm 2-stroke oils only have to perform inside the motor for about 1/100th of a second.

4-stroke oil labs do not test for organic and nitrogen based additives and elements that are commonly used in 2-stroke oils.

Metallic additives generally leave hard carbon deposits on the piston and organic additives leave soft deposits in outboard duty cycles.

posted 08-11-2010 01:18 PM ET (US)            

Since 2-stroke oil is burned in the combustion process, this analysis is not possible.

Personally, I do believe that running ANY NMMA TC-W3 certified oil is sufficient to lubricate your motor safely. But I burn a higher quality oil because it leaves less ash and does not require any anti-carbon supplements in the fuel. It also is more pleasant to operate an engine that smokes less.

So, whatever. I spend more for quality. I buy American when I can, I shop at small, family owned businesses when I can. Yes, I spend a little more, but I'm blessed with a good job and can afford the slight premium if it means that a local business is going to have money to support the local schools, employ local people and generally contribute to overall quality of life. In this case, that means I buy my XD-50 Oil (at a discount and in bulk) from a family-owned shop. Be that across the state at my preferred dealer, or in town at the alternative dealer which I've identified. Both are mom and pop places and I'm proud to give them my business.

posted 08-11-2010 01:41 PM ET (US)         

Do you run the manufacturer's branded oil in that new Harley?

You might not remember a few years ago when Harely Davidson made it clear that they DID NOT recommend running synthetic oil in their engines. Some crap about bearings slipping or something.

A couple years later they had their own synthetic oil to sell and suddenly it was not only ok but encouraged.

posted 08-11-2010 03:01 PM ET (US)         

I had to Google Super Tech to find out that it is a lower priced brand sold at Wal-Mart. I have never noticed it the local hardware or auto parts store so I will have to assume the answer is no.

The local auto parts and hardware stores do typically carry Lubrimatic or some other "off brand" oil.

You may or may not be interested to know that in my neck of the woods doing business with the locals is the ONLY option. Nearest Wally World is 45 miles away.

Your implication that those of us that don't buy manufacturer branded oil are somehow contributing to the demise of the local "mom & pop" (nice marketing speak there) is misguided and false.

You know what they say about assumptions....

Did I mention it's not like you to troll?

:-)

posted 08-11-2010 03:09 PM ET (US)            

My defense of national branded oils was based on the assertion that there is no difference between them. I posit that there is - and while it may not make a lubricative difference in terms of initial lubricity of the base product, I assert that there is a longer-term difference in qualitative aspects (less smoke) and engine performance (cleaner burn, less deposits, no need for decarbon gas treatments, etc).

You can do with that what you want. My argument is not with you.

posted 08-11-2010 03:11 PM ET (US)            

1) use cheap TCW-3 and decarb every so often
2) use expensive TCW-3 and decarb every so often, "just in case"
3) use expensive TCW-3 and live on the edge, never decarbing
4) use expensive TCW-3 because it smokes less, or is made in America, or whatever other intangibles are important to you

Someone made an argument about spending $14,000 on an outboard and cheaping out on oil. I just bought my fourth, grrreat running, reliable boat, in two years in the hobby, and I've just barely spent _half_ that on all four boats and great motors, _combined_. By some standards, that in itself is cheaping out, I suppose. I prefer to refer to it as a fiscally responsible way to participate in a frivolous luxury hobby that 90% of the world has no access to. I use cheap TCW-3 and decarb my motors every so often. I do not put expensive additives in my fuel other than StaBil.

posted 08-11-2010 03:21 PM ET (US)         

quote:

---

Personally, I do believe that running ANY NMMA TC-W3 certified oil is sufficient to lubricate your motor safely. But I burn a higher quality oil because it leaves less ash and does not require any anti-carbon supplements in the fuel. It also is more pleasant to operate an engine that smokes less.

So, whatever. I spend more for quality. I buy American when I can, I shop at small, family owned businesses when I can. Yes, I spend a little more, but I'm blessed with a good job and can afford the slight premium if it means that a local business is going to have money to support the local schools, employ local people and generally contribute to overall quality of life. In this case, that means I buy my XD-50 Oil (at a discount and in bulk) from a family-owned shop. Be that across the state at my preferred dealer, or in town at the alternative dealer which I've identified. Both are mom and pop places and I'm proud to give them my business.

---

Why did you feel it relevant to include your purchasing habits and a civics lesson?

when I questioned the relevance of those thoughts to this thread you came back with,

quote:

---

don't know GNR, can you get SUPER TECH at your local hardware store?

---

You are are now saying that you civics lesson and not so subtle shot at Wal-Mart carried no implications?

Sure dude.

;-)

p.s.

posted 08-11-2010 03:31 PM ET (US)            

Any car will get you to work. Why pay more than the cheapest car available?

Any board-certified doctor will provide you standard medical care, why pay more for one over the other?

It is your life, your boat, your money. Spend it as you wish. I'm going boating and burning my XD-50 oil. If I had an E-TEC or an OptiMax, I'd burn Opti-Max oil or XD-100. If I had a Mercury, I'd burn Premium Plus. If I had a Yamaha, I'd burn Yamalube.

I'd buy it from a local dealer, not a big box store.

There you go. That's me.

posted 08-11-2010 04:32 PM ET (US)         

It's not like you to completely dodge the point that is clearly being discussed.

Here it is again.

quote:

---

if it means that a local business is going to have money to support the local schools, employ local people and generally contribute to overall quality of life.

---

I know you are no dummy but you usually don't play this game.

How is buying lower priced oil affecting the local schools the employment of the local people and the overall quality of life?

These are your words not mine. You opened this door. Why are you refusing to walk through it?

posted 08-11-2010 04:56 PM ET (US)         

You have fallen a few notches on the old respect-o-meter today Dave.

You know damn well that is not the issue here.

First you insult everyone who chooses to buy lower priced oil by ASSuming that we all run down to the the local china-mart to get it.

Now this?

Why did you introduce the local economy angle if you didn't want to disuss it?

Oh I know...

Because its a free country, right?

LOL

posted 08-11-2010 05:14 PM ET (US)            

LHG is the one who highly recommends Wal-Mart for batteries or oil and scoffs at anyone who considers buying a Suzuki motor throughout his posts. That is what I was responding to.

I could care less if you buy Pennzoil or SuperTech or Jerry's Golden Motor Oil.

I choose to buy what I choose to buy. Part of that decision is based in a larger worldview of WHERE and WHY I buy things, which is what my post was trying to elucidate.

If it offends you that I choose to buy a premium brand and choose to buy it from a locally operated or owned store for a few more pennies per purchase, where is the insult to you?

The original poster asked what we would do. I attempted to answer fully and honestly what I would do. I won't apologize for also encouraging others to understand and consider my viewpoint.

I'm not going to (and don't) look down at anyone for buying Cabelas or Super Tech or whatever, but I also don't expect them to do so and then belittle others for choosing other purchases based on price or brand preferences.

I believe that this is a wash on cost - i.e. that the cost savings is a mirage, as discussed further up on this thread, and that one would be better off purchasing the premium product in the first place. That's an opinion. I won't apologize for holding it because I believe it is a rational one.

quote:

---

How is buying lower priced oil affecting the local schools the employment of the local people and the overall quality of life?

---

Again, if you wish to further discuss the impacts of local companies and businesses on communities in which they operate, give me a buzz. My e-mail is listed in my profile, and although SOME people think Hotmail is a junk mail account, I am an active user. In other words, I'm there, every day. I'll respond.

posted 08-11-2010 07:13 PM ET (US)            

If your requirements out of your 2-stroke oil are to lubricate your engine, and you will be decarboning anyway, and you don't care about smoke, buy the oil that fits that bill.

posted 08-11-2010 07:24 PM ET (US)         

Nor do I see a problem with buying American made Johnson Controls batteries at Walmart, nor American produced Pennzoil outboard oil in any of three grades, at Walmart. It has absolutely nothing to do with buying a Japanese outboard, and all my Mercs seem to run just fine, thank you.

posted 08-11-2010 11:17 PM ET (US)            

For me the biggest problem with depending on WALMART as a source for oil--or anything--is the high variability of inventory. One store may have the product one week, and then be out the next. Another store may never carry it. I really don't need to drive around the country looking for the one WALMART that has the oil I want in stock. There is some cost involved there that has not been accounted for in the discussion of buying bargain oil at WALMART.

As I mentioned earlier, I firmly believe that part of the marketing effort the outboard manufacturers have made with their own brand of consumables is to drive traffic back to their dealers. That is where I buy my oil--at my outboard motor dealer.

This is another concept that seems foreign to some: the notion that you have a local dealer who your work with, who maintains you motor, who provides service and value.

What annoys me most in these discussions is the notion that anyone who pays more for something different must be a fool. This argument has been applied several times here by those proponent of using the lowest price no-brand oils. Now I cannot blame them because that is the only argument they can make. When they use less expensive no-brand oils, they must argue that these oils are as good as the more expensive manufacturer-branded oils, and they are the smart ones for seeing through the marketing-hype, which they argue is the only thing differentiating the two oil products. If they do not take this position then they would have to admit the cheap no-brand oil was not as good and they were simply cheapskates who wanted to save $10 per year on oil for a $14,000 motor. That position is much harder to defend, so, naturally, they avoid it.

posted 08-12-2010 09:47 AM ET (US)            

Be that as it may, you're right.

The good news for me is that I do enjoy working on the boat, so while it will set me back a little bit and some time, the "bones" of this boat are definitely quality. She just needs a little TLC and elbow grease.

As for the buying patterns, we do agree on a lot, but not everything, obviously.

Enjoy your hours aboard your boat burning whatever oil you choose. Own whatever engine you want.

Next time someone asks what I would do, I'll still give them my opinion. It clearly differs from others. No worries on my part.

I'll say it again to RGY - I would not use Yamalube in an Johnson motor. If buying a branded, premium oil (Which is what I'd do), I''d buy XD-50.

If you want to take the inexpensive oil route, that's fine. I'd buy Pennzoil - the oil that is readily available to me at my locally owned and operated hardware store.

posted 08-12-2010 10:36 AM ET (US)         

I never said that you or anyone else who buys manufacturer branded lubricants is a "fool".

My point was that in today's world one must be careful when purchasing products based on labels and claims. I gave one example of a situation where the marketing of a product lead to higher profits for the exact same product one could purchase at a lower cost. I can list many more examples of the same type. One only has to pay attention to see that some marketing tactic are misleading at best.

Automobile manufacturers are notorious for this type of thing. Sure you can get the super duper aftermarket shocks from the factory on your new truck if you buy the "4x4" package. They don't tell you the Rancho 5000's that come on your new truck were indeed made by Rancho but to Ford's specifications and are inferior to the Rancho 5000's you would get if you purchased them from the manufacturer directly. The examples of this type of marketing are endless.

I am not an expert on oil. I do know the none of the outboard manufacturers produce their own oil. It is not a big leap for me to believe that the only difference between the Evinrude branded oil and one of the other oils on the shelf at the parts store is the package it is in. I wonder if enough manufacturer branded oil is consumed to make it worthwhile for the oil manufacturers to run a batch of this specially blended top shelf oil. I believe it is good stuff. I also would bet you can buy the exact same stuff in a different package most likely a bit cheaper.

Of course the XD100 is its own animal and I would not include it my thoughts here. At least without learning more about it. ;-) It would not surprise me in the least to find out the color and odor you talk about is less about it performance properties and more meant to differentiate from the other oils for marketing purposes.

Now I'm not saying that is a fact. Just saying it wouldn't surprise me.

Dave,

Get over yourself. I don't care what you buy for oil. I've already quoted the post you made which implied that those of us who buy cheaper oil don't support the local schools and little league and the boy scouts.....

You came across a bit holier than thou there, no? All those things that you do which you feel makes you a better citizen I do also. My point was that what shelf you buy your oil from has no affect on this. Non what-so-ever. In spite of your not so subtle implications to the contrary.

posted 08-12-2010 03:00 PM ET (US)            

I'd buy a couple gallons "off the shelf" so you have the containers, and then start buying it in bulk.

You can get it in downtown GR at Van's on Alpine (bulk) for about $29/gallon, and I often buy mine from Lockeman's in Detroit fro $22.95/gallon. I usually combine a trip if I'm over there for business or pleasure and stop in to get some. I've also had the benefit of a couple members here who are friends who've delivered it to me on their way over this direction. I used to keep 3-4 gallons of XD-100 handy, and now have the containers to keep 8 or 9 gallons of XD-50 on hand - so when I run over there, it's a pretty hefty outlay, but covers my season.

I'm checking down on Gun Lake for a vendor, but so far only found Mercury Premium Plus in bulk on that lake.

If you want, I can get you some from Detroit at the discounted price when I run over there if you give me a container. We could meet up halfway - Zeeland or Hudsonville to exchange.

Dave

posted 08-12-2010 04:12 PM ET (US)            

*poopy diapers excepted, of course.