Buying Boat Canvas - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  Buying Boat Canvas

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Buying Boat Canvas

Jet Wrench posted 08-23-2010 05:32 PM ET (US)
Who sells the best Bimini top made with stainless steel tubes and hardware? What fabric will hold up well in the Texas heat? Thanks in advance.
JW
jimh posted 08-23-2010 07:55 PM ET (US)
The best canvas work I have ever seen was from a fellow named Carlos who works in Charlevoix, Michigan. He does mostly custom yachts and has two year waiting list. He is the best. I don't know if it would be worth bringing your boat from Texas just for a Bimini top, and I suspect it would be expensive. However, I have never seen canvas as beautifully designed, sewn, and installed as his.
Jet Wrench posted 08-24-2010 06:54 AM ET (US)
Thanks Jim, wish he were closer! Right now, the only time to launch here in Texas is the early morning or early evening! Can't wait for this heat to break!
JW
jimh posted 08-24-2010 08:06 AM ET (US)
Bimini tops and other canvas are typically supported by tubular frames. Stainless steel tubing is often used, however for smaller boats I don't see why you couldn't use aluminum for the frame. Stainless may be preferred due to it bright finish as well as its strength. Aluminum is typically less costly than stainless steel.
Over many decades the Glen Raven, Inc., fabric SUNBRELLA has become more or less the de facto standard of comparison for boat canvas fabric.
http://www.sunbrella.com/na/about_sunbrella.php
There are really three options for boat canvas:
--buy locally-made, custom-fitted canvas made by a local artisan;
--buy OEM or specialty after-market canvas, made to fit your boat; or,
--buy after-market generic canvas and fit your boat to the canvas.
If you buy locally-made, custom-fitted canvas you should look for a local craftsman or artisan, and look at samples of his work on other boats in your area. A trip to a marina will usually reveal the name of a local canvas maker. Most sew a label onto their canvas products making it easy to identify who made it. Walk around the marina and look at which boats have good canvas, then find out who made it. The canvas maker will also install the canvas on your boat.
If you buy OEM canvas or after-market specialty canvas you will get canvas that is pre-made to fit your boat, but you will have to install it yourself. Installation of pre-fitted canvas can be tricky. If you do not place the frame anchor points in the correct location, the pre-fit canvas will not fit well.
For Boston Whaler boats there are two well-known sources of pre-fitted canvas. For Boston Whaler boats made prior to c.1990, the Wm. J. Mills & Co. of Greenport, New York was the OEM supplier and still makes pre-fitted canvas to their original patterns. For newer Boston Whaler boats, made after c. 1989, the Great Lakes Canvas Co. was the OEM supplier, You can buy directly from both of these firms via their websites. (Links below.)
http://www.greatlakesboattop.com/products
http://www.millscanvas.com/frame_index2.htm
Several years ago I recorded an interview with Jamie Mills of the Wm. J. Mills & Co., and you may find listening to the interview to be interesting. It is available from the WHALER RADIO section of the website:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/radio/

If you buy generic after-market canvas, fitting it to your boat will be left to you to accomplish. There are many makers of generic boat canvas, particularly Bimini tops. Some years ago I bought and installed a Bimini top from Taylor-Made. I described the installation in detail in an article:
http://continuouswave.com/maintenance-logs/bimini/
cohasett73 posted 08-24-2010 08:15 AM ET (US)
Jet Wrench,
I bought my bimini from Cabela's, it's a Attwood and works great in my 1973 CohassetII. When purchased it cost around $175.00. This spring I cut 4" off each side bow and then reassembled. Narrowing the top 8" allows it to fit inside the side and bow rails.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Jefecinco posted 08-24-2010 09:50 AM ET (US)
Jet,
The best bimini tops I've seen are the OEM covers on Boston Whaler boats. Pricey, but top quality and the fit is perfect.
Butch
Tohsgib posted 08-24-2010 10:23 AM ET (US)
Bimini tops are not rocket science nor are they any different from each other...they all look and function the same. A nice custom SS top will be around $800. A custom Aluminum will be more than 50% cheaper and one from Taylor made will be about 1/3 the price of SS. Take your pic, I use alum with Sunbrella Taylor or Carver made tops and am VERY happy with their quality, fit and abilty to hold up to FL sun. Sure SS is nice but it is heavy and expensive and the sunbrella will need to be replaced just like with alum. How long do you keep your boats might be a better question.
Jefecinco posted 08-24-2010 07:25 PM ET (US)
Big,
I'll quibble just a little. I agree that all bimini tops function the same. They do not all look the same however though they look similar. They certainly do not all fit the same, but they can be close.
As you said, how long do you keep your boat. I keep mine an average of 16 years. An OEM stainless steel bimini top frame will look good after 16 years of use. I doubt aluminum will do as well but I don't know having never seen one used for 16 years to the best of my knowledge.
I was not over whelmed by the Taylor gear I've seen but it looked decent to me. I've never seen a Carver bimini top but I've owned two Carver boat covers which I found to be excellent though far from perfect.
I believe I gave a good answer to the OPs question.
Butch
Newtauk1 posted 08-24-2010 08:08 PM ET (US)
Try this place:
boatcoversdirect.com
cohasett73 posted 08-25-2010 08:03 AM ET (US)
Jet Wrench,
The link Newtauk1 recommends looks like a winner.
The alum. frame white vinyl top. Ht.& Length 42"X 66"
Width to fit 53"-62" is $204.29. That's darn hard to beat!
The only other thing I would recommend is to mount a track that would allow you fore and aft adjustment.
If you win the lottery; the sunbrella top in linen would be a good match to your boat's interior.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Tohsgib posted 08-25-2010 10:29 AM ET (US)
Actually for that top you mentioned is not hard to beat, I bought one at Theft Marine for like $129 on sale. The vinyl tops are junk and probably come in pieces that you have to assemble not to mention the mildew and brittleness that occurs. We call them "bimini in a box" and you really want to stay away from that. The least junky stuff is sharkskin. Not really junk but compared to sunbrella I don't care for it. However on my 13' I have a complete SS top with Sharkskin fabric. I guess it is kinda like Haartzcloth compared to a vinyl convertible roof. My Carver or Taylor Made(made by Carver I believe) are under $300 delivered with boots.
Tohsgib posted 08-25-2010 10:34 AM ET (US)
Ok I researched it for the one I recently bought and they get like $318 delivered, not bad but check Cabellas and Overtons as well.
John W posted 08-25-2010 08:05 PM ET (US)
I agree with jimh's comments. An OEM stainless top, or a custom stainless top fitted by a local high end canvas shop, each will be much better & sturdier than a cheap aluminum top. The latter are flimsy, blow around in the wind, and aren't as functional or durable as a custom stainless top.
On the other hand, a custom stainless bimini will cost a lot more than off-the-rack aluminum tops. Whether a custom stainless top is worth the extra money is entirely subjective. I had a custom 4 bow bikini top built of one inch stainless by a custom shop in Jacksonville, Florida (the Bosun's Locker) five years ago & I have been very pleased with it. The stainless frames are sturdy enough to hold a drop down windscreen that attaches to my console rail.
Canvas material itself should be Sunbrella or Stamoid (the latter if you want a white top), either way.
John
Newtauk1 posted 08-26-2010 12:44 AM ET (US)
Buy alum frame with SS fittings. Boat Covers Direst has that option, On a Montauk a SS frame is not required in the harshest of weather.
cohasett73 posted 08-26-2010 07:36 AM ET (US)
This thread has suggested mostly high end framing and cover material. Do geese and gulls really care about how expensive the top is they drop on? In my neck of the woods we just want a little shelter.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
jimh posted 08-26-2010 09:54 AM ET (US)
A Boston Whaler is a "high-end" boat. It is reasonable that when selecting canvas that the materials used be of the same general grade as the boat.
Tohsgib posted 08-26-2010 11:20 AM ET (US)
Until the mid-late 80's I believe Mills used alum frames on theirs. I had an alum framed one on my 1976 & 1986. It also had alum fittings which were junk and would weld themselves to the frame. A nice alum frame and SS fittings makes a nice top.
Mambo Minnow posted 08-26-2010 01:05 PM ET (US)
I second the Bosun's Locker in Jax, FL. Ironically the Great Lakes Boat Top OEM for post classics bought them several years ago.
bluewaterpirate posted 08-26-2010 02:02 PM ET (US)
Great Lakes is tops ...... just purchased/installed bow and cockpit covers. They're in the process of making a Bimini for me. I intalled the snaps myself ...... piece a cake.
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/ Two%20of%20a%20Kind/4.jpg?t=1282845716
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/ Two%20of%20a%20Kind/2.jpg?t=1282845660
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/ Two%20of%20a%20Kind/1-1.jpg?t=1282845628
pglein posted 08-27-2010 06:27 PM ET (US)
Bimini tops are NOT all the same. There is a huge difference between a $150 generic bimini, and a $5,000 custom job.
Your BEST tops are custom tailored by a local fabricator. If you want to know who that is, call around to the local yacht brokers and see who they recommend. Skip the Whaler dealer or other small boat dealers. The ones that specialize in larger yachts will have experience and can recommend a spectrum of different priced canvas fabricators. The one and only fabric you should use is Sunbrella.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Buying Boat Canvas
Jet Wrench	posted 08-23-2010 05:32 PM ET (US) Who sells the best Bimini top made with stainless steel tubes and hardware? What fabric will hold up well in the Texas heat? Thanks in advance. JW
jimh	posted 08-23-2010 07:55 PM ET (US) The best canvas work I have ever seen was from a fellow named Carlos who works in Charlevoix, Michigan. He does mostly custom yachts and has two year waiting list. He is the best. I don't know if it would be worth bringing your boat from Texas just for a Bimini top, and I suspect it would be expensive. However, I have never seen canvas as beautifully designed, sewn, and installed as his.
Jet Wrench	posted 08-24-2010 06:54 AM ET (US) Thanks Jim, wish he were closer! Right now, the only time to launch here in Texas is the early morning or early evening! Can't wait for this heat to break! JW
jimh	posted 08-24-2010 08:06 AM ET (US) Bimini tops and other canvas are typically supported by tubular frames. Stainless steel tubing is often used, however for smaller boats I don't see why you couldn't use aluminum for the frame. Stainless may be preferred due to it bright finish as well as its strength. Aluminum is typically less costly than stainless steel. Over many decades the Glen Raven, Inc., fabric SUNBRELLA has become more or less the de facto standard of comparison for boat canvas fabric. http://www.sunbrella.com/na/about_sunbrella.php There are really three options for boat canvas: --buy locally-made, custom-fitted canvas made by a local artisan; --buy OEM or specialty after-market canvas, made to fit your boat; or, --buy after-market generic canvas and fit your boat to the canvas. If you buy locally-made, custom-fitted canvas you should look for a local craftsman or artisan, and look at samples of his work on other boats in your area. A trip to a marina will usually reveal the name of a local canvas maker. Most sew a label onto their canvas products making it easy to identify who made it. Walk around the marina and look at which boats have good canvas, then find out who made it. The canvas maker will also install the canvas on your boat. If you buy OEM canvas or after-market specialty canvas you will get canvas that is pre-made to fit your boat, but you will have to install it yourself. Installation of pre-fitted canvas can be tricky. If you do not place the frame anchor points in the correct location, the pre-fit canvas will not fit well. For Boston Whaler boats there are two well-known sources of pre-fitted canvas. For Boston Whaler boats made prior to c.1990, the Wm. J. Mills & Co. of Greenport, New York was the OEM supplier and still makes pre-fitted canvas to their original patterns. For newer Boston Whaler boats, made after c. 1989, the Great Lakes Canvas Co. was the OEM supplier, You can buy directly from both of these firms via their websites. (Links below.) http://www.greatlakesboattop.com/products http://www.millscanvas.com/frame_index2.htm Several years ago I recorded an interview with Jamie Mills of the Wm. J. Mills & Co., and you may find listening to the interview to be interesting. It is available from the WHALER RADIO section of the website: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/radio/ If you buy generic after-market canvas, fitting it to your boat will be left to you to accomplish. There are many makers of generic boat canvas, particularly Bimini tops. Some years ago I bought and installed a Bimini top from Taylor-Made. I described the installation in detail in an article: http://continuouswave.com/maintenance-logs/bimini/
cohasett73	posted 08-24-2010 08:15 AM ET (US) Jet Wrench, I bought my bimini from Cabela's, it's a Attwood and works great in my 1973 CohassetII. When purchased it cost around $175.00. This spring I cut 4" off each side bow and then reassembled. Narrowing the top 8" allows it to fit inside the side and bow rails. Tom from Rubicon,WI
Jefecinco	posted 08-24-2010 09:50 AM ET (US) Jet, The best bimini tops I've seen are the OEM covers on Boston Whaler boats. Pricey, but top quality and the fit is perfect. Butch
Tohsgib	posted 08-24-2010 10:23 AM ET (US) Bimini tops are not rocket science nor are they any different from each other...they all look and function the same. A nice custom SS top will be around $800. A custom Aluminum will be more than 50% cheaper and one from Taylor made will be about 1/3 the price of SS. Take your pic, I use alum with Sunbrella Taylor or Carver made tops and am VERY happy with their quality, fit and abilty to hold up to FL sun. Sure SS is nice but it is heavy and expensive and the sunbrella will need to be replaced just like with alum. How long do you keep your boats might be a better question.
Jefecinco	posted 08-24-2010 07:25 PM ET (US) Big, I'll quibble just a little. I agree that all bimini tops function the same. They do not all look the same however though they look similar. They certainly do not all fit the same, but they can be close. As you said, how long do you keep your boat. I keep mine an average of 16 years. An OEM stainless steel bimini top frame will look good after 16 years of use. I doubt aluminum will do as well but I don't know having never seen one used for 16 years to the best of my knowledge. I was not over whelmed by the Taylor gear I've seen but it looked decent to me. I've never seen a Carver bimini top but I've owned two Carver boat covers which I found to be excellent though far from perfect. I believe I gave a good answer to the OPs question. Butch
Newtauk1	posted 08-24-2010 08:08 PM ET (US) Try this place: boatcoversdirect.com
cohasett73	posted 08-25-2010 08:03 AM ET (US) Jet Wrench, The link Newtauk1 recommends looks like a winner. The alum. frame white vinyl top. Ht.& Length 42"X 66" Width to fit 53"-62" is $204.29. That's darn hard to beat! The only other thing I would recommend is to mount a track that would allow you fore and aft adjustment. If you win the lottery; the sunbrella top in linen would be a good match to your boat's interior. Tom from Rubicon,WI
Tohsgib	posted 08-25-2010 10:29 AM ET (US) Actually for that top you mentioned is not hard to beat, I bought one at Theft Marine for like $129 on sale. The vinyl tops are junk and probably come in pieces that you have to assemble not to mention the mildew and brittleness that occurs. We call them "bimini in a box" and you really want to stay away from that. The least junky stuff is sharkskin. Not really junk but compared to sunbrella I don't care for it. However on my 13' I have a complete SS top with Sharkskin fabric. I guess it is kinda like Haartzcloth compared to a vinyl convertible roof. My Carver or Taylor Made(made by Carver I believe) are under $300 delivered with boots.
Tohsgib	posted 08-25-2010 10:34 AM ET (US) Ok I researched it for the one I recently bought and they get like $318 delivered, not bad but check Cabellas and Overtons as well.
John W	posted 08-25-2010 08:05 PM ET (US) I agree with jimh's comments. An OEM stainless top, or a custom stainless top fitted by a local high end canvas shop, each will be much better & sturdier than a cheap aluminum top. The latter are flimsy, blow around in the wind, and aren't as functional or durable as a custom stainless top. On the other hand, a custom stainless bimini will cost a lot more than off-the-rack aluminum tops. Whether a custom stainless top is worth the extra money is entirely subjective. I had a custom 4 bow bikini top built of one inch stainless by a custom shop in Jacksonville, Florida (the Bosun's Locker) five years ago & I have been very pleased with it. The stainless frames are sturdy enough to hold a drop down windscreen that attaches to my console rail. Canvas material itself should be Sunbrella or Stamoid (the latter if you want a white top), either way. John
Newtauk1	posted 08-26-2010 12:44 AM ET (US) Buy alum frame with SS fittings. Boat Covers Direst has that option, On a Montauk a SS frame is not required in the harshest of weather.
cohasett73	posted 08-26-2010 07:36 AM ET (US) This thread has suggested mostly high end framing and cover material. Do geese and gulls really care about how expensive the top is they drop on? In my neck of the woods we just want a little shelter. Tom from Rubicon,WI
jimh	posted 08-26-2010 09:54 AM ET (US) A Boston Whaler is a "high-end" boat. It is reasonable that when selecting canvas that the materials used be of the same general grade as the boat.
Tohsgib	posted 08-26-2010 11:20 AM ET (US) Until the mid-late 80's I believe Mills used alum frames on theirs. I had an alum framed one on my 1976 & 1986. It also had alum fittings which were junk and would weld themselves to the frame. A nice alum frame and SS fittings makes a nice top.
Mambo Minnow	posted 08-26-2010 01:05 PM ET (US) I second the Bosun's Locker in Jax, FL. Ironically the Great Lakes Boat Top OEM for post classics bought them several years ago.
bluewaterpirate	posted 08-26-2010 02:02 PM ET (US) Great Lakes is tops ...... just purchased/installed bow and cockpit covers. They're in the process of making a Bimini for me. I intalled the snaps myself ...... piece a cake. http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/ Two%20of%20a%20Kind/4.jpg?t=1282845716 http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/ Two%20of%20a%20Kind/2.jpg?t=1282845660 http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/ Two%20of%20a%20Kind/1-1.jpg?t=1282845628
pglein	posted 08-27-2010 06:27 PM ET (US) Bimini tops are NOT all the same. There is a huge difference between a $150 generic bimini, and a $5,000 custom job. Your BEST tops are custom tailored by a local fabricator. If you want to know who that is, call around to the local yacht brokers and see who they recommend. Skip the Whaler dealer or other small boat dealers. The ones that specialize in larger yachts will have experience and can recommend a spectrum of different priced canvas fabricators. The one and only fabric you should use is Sunbrella.