posted 12-04-2010 12:55 PM ET (US)            

I have little doubt that Porsche engineers built a beefy enough transmission to handle light tow duty within the specified ranges in the manual.

The 911 curb weight is 3400 lbs (roughly) and that trailer was probably around 1,100 lbs - making for a 4,500 lb load.

There are other components of your tow vehicle to consider.

First and foremost is the weight you will be towing, followed by the duration and frequency of your tows.

Next, you'll want to investigate tongue weight and axle weight ratings on your vehicle.

If all of those check out, you'll need to then look at how the manufacturer rates the vehicle. For instance, many "max tow ratings" are figured with a nearly empty tow vehicle.

Many boaters who tow their boat on vacation have a tendency to load the tow vehicle with people and gear, as well - which changes the ratings, etc.

If you do these calculations for, say, towing a 25' Outrage Cuddy with full fuel and gear for an extended camping trip with some friends, you might find that a seemingly very beefy Ford F-150 pickup with V-8 engine is not quite the towing beast you once thought it was.

There is a reason that OTR truckers have such beefy tractors. Moving the weight can be done by a very small engine - that has been shown in those old Hundai Santa Fe commercials where the guy tows a semi-truck down the road.

The true test starts coming in miles down the road - when your rear bearings wear out because of too much weight on the axles, or your rear differential goes because of too much heat generated from the load.

A premium vehicle like the Cayenne is first and foremost a passenger car. It is rated for towing, but I would say that the designers anticipated infrequent towing needs. Because it is a Porsche, I'd say that the rear differential probably has synthetic oil to help handle the heat generated from towing. ...
...

and we know that Porsche's have adequate brakes.

There will also be a qualitative difference between towing with a well-built, high quality small SUV such as the Cayenne vs a modestly-priced small SUV such as the Santa Fe.

So, while the video might show adequate stopping, handling, etc of a small SUV with a modest weight (but valuable cargo) in tow, it doesn't do much to tell me that people seeking to push the limits of the stated tow capacities on their vehicles should move forward without serious calculation and consideration.

One of the most important things you can do if you tow frequently and are ANYWHERE CLOSE to your tow capacity for your vehicle is to WEIGH YOUR RIG.

JimH provides good information on how to do so in his article on the subject. It costs less than $20 and can actually be kind of fun.

posted 12-04-2010 04:15 PM ET (US)            

A couple weeks later we saw a Freightliner Airstream van towing a new Montauk.

Those are two examples of knowing how to spend your money.

posted 12-04-2010 05:08 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

ABS brakes are a wonderful "innovation" regarding tow rig capabilities.

---

If you are finding your ABS is being used often whilst towing I think you may need to consider your driving style :)

posted 12-04-2010 10:48 PM ET (US)            

I think the cayenne diesel has a tow rating of 7,700 lbs. A well-established rule of thumb suggests that you should tow about 15% less than the max rating which is about 6,500 lbs. Then subtract gear and passengers in the car which is probably about 500 lbs. and your trailer load should be about 6,000 lbs. Subtract about 1,300 lbs. of trailer , 600 lbs. of engine and say 500 lbs. for 75 gallons of boat fuel gives you about 3800 lbs. Now subtract 300 lbs. for T-Top, 75lbs of ice chest plus another 200 lbs. of boating related gear and fluids. Now you are looking at about no more than 3000 lbs. of boat hull. A quick look at Whaler’s site and the biggest boats you could tow would be the 19 Outrage or a 23 Dauntless. Any larger boat requires a truck with the adequate tow ratings.

posted 12-04-2010 11:47 PM ET (US)            

However I have said before, and I'll say again that if I were one who just plain old liked big trucks, then I would go overkill with towing capability. But I would do so with my eyes wide open and no illusions or futile justifications of how I needed it. Liking big trucks is as legitimate as liking liver and onions or licorice. Being bored by big trucks is just as legitimate. I belong in the second category. So I put the savings elsewhere.

posted 12-05-2010 03:36 PM ET (US)            

As you know in the UK/Europe nobody looks at the towing capacity specified as real life reports are far more reliable of the vehicles driving characteristics under load and conditions. It is also not used as guideline for the safety or stability of your setup

The usual governing factors are 85% to 95% depending on your skill and comfort of the vehicles kerb weight for the maximum braked load to be pulled without exceeding 95% of the hitch/ball rating. This to stop the tail wagging the dog especially on steep declines. Most also fit a stabiliser to dampen any induced swaying.

Most caravan dealers won't sell you a new van if your tow car in not heavier.

Only a few 4x4 sold in Europe are capable of over 4000lbs with hitch loads over 200lbs as we do not have the US heavier "trucks" generally.

I recall the Touareg was voted one of the best tow cars in UK especially the V10 which had far more torque than the Cayenne at the time and Nissan patrol or Toyota land crusher diesels, although I don't think is had the same maximum towing capacity

posted 12-05-2010 07:13 PM ET (US)            

I do suspect that in the rest of the western democracies, the 5000:1 statistic would be very much reversed, especially if you include the corporate twin, Touareg. Then again, judging by the European penchant for manual transmissions and worlds best auto racers, we should not be surprised that at their taste for a more involving driving experience.

posted 12-06-2010 02:29 PM ET (US)            

Your right outside north America very few places have access to big cheap trucks, wide roads and low fuel prices.

Europeans wishing to tow 2 ton or more are forced in to high end market 4x4 where even second hand ones are expensive to maintain and run

posted 12-06-2010 03:10 PM ET (US)            

I even took it off road on the weekends (loaner remember) all I can say is WOW.

The fuel mileage was about 8MPG avg, but I had a tough time not just flooring it all the time, way too much fun. And, it handled alot like the 911, well...

posted 12-07-2010 10:01 AM ET (US)            

In fact, if you have a sub-20' boat, and luxury SUV is your thing 99% of the time and you need something to move that boat from the lake house down the road a few miles to the ramp/mechanic/storage, etc....no worries.

Just don't expect to be comfortable towing from, say, Michigan to Florida in February more than once every few years.

If your boat is more than 20', you should consider investing in a very well used full-sized SUV or pickup truck for tow duty and license/insure it only during the boating season. Then spend considerably less money on a USED Porsche. If you want the performance, go with the car version. Heck, get the SUBARU Impreza WRX for thousands less, and still blow the doors off the Porsche.

It's not the moving or the stopping the rig that concern me...especially in flat, straight line situations - it's the extreme maneuvering that bothers me - to avoid accidents/collisions or whatever....but even if you can avoid those situations, you still encounter significant wear on a light-duty vehicle when subjecting it to the stresses of towing. I'm not sure there is an objective way to show that.

Anecdotally, I will note that the Explorer that I used for 150K miles suffered from several problems from towing my 18' Outrage. When I replaced the shocks, the rear springs were broken due to the weight. The rear bearings wore out (twice) from the weight. The rear differential went out at 150K miles (and was the event that caused me to trade it in). There were additional signs of wear. I changed the oil every 3,000-4,000 miles and changed other fluids on a "severe duty" schedule as recommended by the manufacturer. But the engine was under severe strain when towing. My fuel economy took a serious hit. When towing up long, steep grades, occasionally the engine would miss, and sometimes the check-engine light would illuminate. I burned a O2 sensor in the exhaust due to high exhaust temperatures on some of the long tugs uphill, etc.

posted 12-07-2010 12:41 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

It's not the moving or the stopping the rig that concern me...especially in flat, straight line situations - it's the extreme maneuvering that bothers me - to avoid accidents/collisions or whatever....

---

And this is EXACTLY why I started this thread and linked to that video. Remember, Jim is the one who changed the title of the thread to the Porsche Cayenne. I could give a whit about the Cayenne personally, although for my money I'd FAAAR rather have a Touareg to tow my 2000lb boat/trailer rigs than a domestic, diesel 1-ton that costs more anyway. My point was just to show that you do not have to have 4-6 times the safe towing capacity of your actual load to stop and/or maneuver safely. PERFECTLY safely. And in fact, you can have a tow vehicle that is not much if any, heavier than the load being towed, and still do it safely. PERFECTLY safely. As shown in the video.

Dave also sez:

quote:

---

Anecdotally, I will note that the Explorer that I used for 150K miles suffered from several problems from towing my 18' Outrage. When I replaced the shocks, the rear springs were broken due to the weight. The rear bearings wore out (twice) from the weight. The rear differential went out at 150K miles (and was the event that caused me to trade it in). There were additional signs of wear.

---

I don't dispute this for an instant. Towing WILL wear things out faster. And I have an Explorer, with the nice 4.6L ohc v6, but unfortunately, comes with the awful, glass-jawed transmission. The V8's had good, strong, transmissions. I tow my 2000lb loads up hill and down dale, in blistering, 115degF Mohave Desert heat. There is no doubt things get stressed. I've already paid $1100 for a new transfer case, (at 60,000 miles), which in my Explorer's lame "All-Trac" 4wd system, leaves you dead in the water if it goes out. It's just that it's not worth dropping $66k on a 1-ton, crew-cab, powerstroke diesel. It's not even worth spending 2/3 of that amount on a nice, used one. And that's not even counting the awful driving dynamics you have to put up with the other 99% of the time. The Explorer is bad enough as it is, in that department. The Toyota Sienna I just drove a few weeks ago can easily tow a 2000lb load and it's driving dynamics and accommodations are so much better than the Explorer or any 1-ton truck as to be laughable. And the Odyessy is even better still. This is me. I have small boats. I'm not telling anyone with a 5000lb load to tow, to use a minivan.

There are "driver people", and "truck people". If you (the proverbial you, not you, Dave), are a truck person with a classic Whaler, you probably have WAAAY more towing capability than you need. That's fine. Don't try to tell us why you need your behemoth to tow your Montauk. It's perfectly fine to say, "Hey man, I like trucks". Nobody here will look askance at you for having a big truck simply because you like big trucks.

posted 12-07-2010 03:08 PM ET (US)            

That's funny cause people look askance at me all the time for driving the P-car.

posted 12-07-2010 07:42 PM ET (US)            

Also, In this market, you should be able to a new loaded 3/4 ton diesel for probably less than $45,000

Also, where is it in my math that something is 4 times the weight it should be?

posted 12-07-2010 10:27 PM ET (US)            

My 2006 HD 25000 Chevy sure has a lineman like grunt, it works down in the trenches without a whimper and is often called on to pull 10,000 pounds. 65,000 miles have passed without incident and while it won't get the girls and the glory of that quarterback Cayenne it sure has won my respect.

posted 12-08-2010 09:44 AM ET (US)            

So, looked at in that light, the puny tow ratings of American vehicles are strange. We have discussed many times that the same vehicle, when sold in European markets may have a markedly higher tow rating than the same vehicle sold in the US.

I suspect that this has a lot to do with the fact that for decades, the most profitable vehicles sold by US manufacturers were their light trucks. Want to tow 6,000 lbs - buy a truck.

If you have a trailer with good (emphasis here on good) brakes, it matters much less what the size of the tow vehicle weighs.

posted 12-08-2010 12:56 PM ET (US)            

Diveorfish sez:

quote:

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Pcrussell50, you seem to be convinced that everyone on this sight suggests buying a 1 ton diesel truck to tow a Montauk. No one would dispute that being way overkill. Where does this come from? Are you in the market for both a boat and a tow vehicle?

---

Diveorfish, (sorry, I don't know your name or I'd use it), to answer your questions:
1) Where do I get the idea that everyone here suggests getting way more truck than neccessary to get the job done?

Not everyone here does. Today's post by CWW member Plotman is a prime example. The man gets it.

Back to your question though, Based on my observations of society at-large, I am operating under the assumption that statistically there must at least be a handful of CWW'ers who think they NEED something way more than they really do, to get the job done right. At first blush, that's not so bad. You could say, it's "fiscal Darwinism" at work. But these folks are here fellowshipping with us, learning and contributing and such, and I find it unpleasant to ponder the possibility that a fellow CWW'er might blow his hard-earned family treasure, thinking he needs to, in order to be responsible and safe.

2) Am I in the market for a boat and a tow vehicle?

Yes, and sort of...

I'm in the market for a classic Montauk, but I already have a classic Sport 13 Whaler and a fastboat in my driveway, and another fastboat at "our" lake house, (wife's grandparents). I made a promise to my wife and myself, that I'd get sell the smaller Whaler before I bought another Whaler. This of course is not enough to keep me from looking, and truth be told, I'll still buy a Montauk before selling the 13, if it's the right one... wouldn't want to let the right one, get away, don't you know?

Am I looking for a tow vehicle? Sort of... but not for my boats. My biggest boat is a 16 foot speedster powered by a "bubbleback", v4 crossflow. I tow my Whaler down to the ocean with a stick-shifted, 2.0 liter-four cylinder, 1986 Nissan Stanza Wagon, as well as a v6 Explorer. The Stanza does just fine, too.

What I _should_ be looking for is a tow vehicle for my racing car. I've been getting by either renting an Expedition, and then a U-haul car puller, in two separate transactions, and violating my "no towing" rental contract. I have also utilized some of my contacts from being a crazy car hobbyist for many years, and gotten my race car registered (illegally) for road use. If I got pulled over, the ticket would be HUGE, maybe even arrest, right on the spot. I try to stick to freeways as much as possible when driving to a track event. Whenever I pass a CHP trooper on the side of the road, I shut off the barely muffled, 450hp engine and coast by, that kind of thing.

Towing, that load would be about 5000lbs including tools and spares. If my Explorer was the one with the v8, which is hardly any more powerful than v6, but has a MUCH stronger transmission, I'd be set. So now I'm stuck either running scared, like I do now, or sacrificing hard-earned family treasure on a vehicle I HATE to drive, and will only really need, 6-8 weekends a year.

I don't just hate driving big trucks, I hate driving Cayenne/Touareg-sized SUV's too. But at least something smaller would be cheaper, so if I get the minimum required, at least I'm out the least possible amount of money on something I hate.

posted 12-08-2010 01:14 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Can you get two yards of compost or a cord of wood in that yuppy mobile?

---

Funny you should say that. I was trying to think of a way to work in the story of my mom's landscaper, who has a nice, burgundy, 1-ton Ford with Powerstroke diesel. That thing is his BABY. It's never seen a hard day's work in it's 2-year life, and if he has his way, it will stay that way. Normally, he and his guys just do a quick, "mow'n'blow" on my senior citizen mom's half-acre yard. Every now and then, they do some pruning of citrus branches and sago palm fronds. The first time he did a big pruning job, he filled an 8 x 10 utility trailer with 800lbs of branches and other yard waste. He wanted to charge my mom for the rental of a pickup truck to tow it to the dump, because he was not about to use his shiny 1-ton diesel. He's a truck guy. His truck is his pride and joy. It might as well be a Porsche to him.

As a side note, I went and got a cord of wood in my my illegally registered race car once. Since it iss gutted, there was a surprising amount of room inside it, though loading it was awkward. I keep a Recaro sport passenger seat in it so I can take a friend in non-racing lapping sessions. The upholstery got torn. The fire extinguisher got broken off it's mount, and a log pinched the wire bundle leading to the taillights and created a short, so the taillights didn't work for the drive home... in a car that's already hugely illegal for street use with a barely muffled, race motor and not a single emissions system.

posted 12-08-2010 01:43 PM ET (US)            

The truck, with its 4.0-liter VVT-i DOHC V6 that produces 245 horsepower and 282 lb-ft. of torque, coupled with its 6-speed manual tranny, has done well, but its fuel economy while towing has been disappointing, perhaps only 12 or 13 mpg overall (it gets about 21 mpg highway without a tow). The truck's towing capacity, with its factory tow package, is rated at 6,500 lbs.

Nice truck, which is now hooked up permanently to my Montauk's trailer since I'm commuting in a vehicle which gets exactly twice the mileage (a Jetta Sportwagen diesel). I'm planning a long trip (maybe as much as 4000 miles) this coming spring in the truck towing my Montauk halfway across country and back), which I guess shows the trust I have in that rig.

Just something for you to think about, Peter. The Tacomas beginning in 2005 are true mid-size trucks, and plenty powerful enough to tow smaller Whalers...and maybe even your race car. You can pick up a nice used one (hopefully one which hasn't been used off-road a lot) for between $15-20K.

posted 12-08-2010 01:47 PM ET (US)            

I'm taken back by your statement:
That you are: "babysitting my 1 year old girl while my wife works, which is what I'm doing, in SLC, as we speak".

I don't believe you can 'babysit' your own child.

A babysitter is someone you hire for 3 hours while you and your wife go to a movie.

I believe it is a huge privilege and honor to spend time with your own children.
I think our kids and spouses are the true 'important' things on this earth.

Kids are amazing and change every day.
A lot of work, but they sure are a blessing.

Enjoy it!

posted 12-08-2010 01:56 PM ET (US)         

quote:

---

Back to your question though, Based on my observations of society at-large, I am operating under the assumption that statistically there must at least be a handful of CWW'ers who think they NEED something way more than they really do, to get the job done right. At first blush, that's not so bad. You could say, it's "fiscal Darwinism" at work. But these folks are here fellowshipping with us, learning and contributing and such, and I find it unpleasant to ponder the possibility that a fellow CWW'er might blow his hard-earned family treasure, thinking he needs to, in order to be responsible and safe

---

Well, the thing about that is…

If you carry that extra third of fuel when you go offshore you may never need it. When that day comes when you do need it you will be damn glad you have it. I have never needed a pfd in over 40 years going out in boats. I always have then ready though. You might go the rest of your boating life towing comfortably behind that rig. If/when the crap hits the fan in front of you will be damn glad you have a heavy rig in front of that trailer to keep things in a straight line.

Two things that make a big difference in these tow vehicle discussion are trailer brakes and terrain/conditions. It’s been my experience that most small (17-18 foot) boat trailers typically do not have brakes. Adding brakes does add a margin of safety. Without brakes the only way to get that added margin of safety is by having a heavy tow vehicle with good brakes.

posted 12-08-2010 02:34 PM ET (US)            

Note, this video is NOT the one linked at the top of this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp0bkJS9tKw

They Cayenne may be many things, but it is MAGNIFICENT off road and in low traction conditions. There is plenty to bash it for, but offroad capability is not one of them.

posted 12-08-2010 03:29 PM ET (US)         

Not trying to bash it's offroad capability. I would never put my F150 7700 up against it in a rally race. I would like to see it pull my boat up my hill in the winter conditions we are in right now. I would also like to see how it does in a panic stop while going down a steep wet/icy grade pulling 2500-3000 lbs behind it.

I would really like to know how much compost or firewood you could get in one. :-)

posted 12-08-2010 03:54 PM ET (US)            

The video showed it cresting quite a grade, and with high performance street tires, no less. CWW member an86carrera made mention of 7200rpm at 5mph in first gear, low range, all diffs locked. That's quite a granny gear. I'd be surprised if, with some studded or mud tires, it couldn't pull quite a load up a snowy/icy hill. More specifically, I guess I don't see how, with power, traction, locked axles, and gearing, it couldn't handle a load up a slippery hill as well as a truck with a stick axle.

I'd never put firewood or manure in one either... until I had it long enough to gut it. Some of my cars, if the driveline is robust, I keep them long-term and I slowly gut out expensive interior bits as things wear out. Then I feel ok putting all manner of stuff inside. I don't expect everyone to be like me in that regard.

posted 12-08-2010 06:38 PM ET (US)            

When I was building my house I started really using my Tahoe as a pickup. I was really starting to tear up the Tahoe hauling all manner of junk around so I traded it in for a half-ton extended-cab pickup. I learned to enjoy driving the pickup plus, as a new home owner, the benefits of having a pickup are invaluable. I also knew that it would be a good tow vehicle when I got my boat.

Then the baby came. The sporty sedan just didn’t have the space needed the hold the “world’s safest car seat” plus all the other baby related gear required by 21 Century mothers. So we thought the minivan was in order and traded in the sporty sedan. Both my wife and I just hate minivans (for purely aesthetic reasons only, because minivans are very functional vehicles) and out of desperation got a Honda Pilot instead of the Honda Odyssey I went to the Honda dealer for originally. To make a long story shorter: I hated the pilot and ended up with another Tahoe. Moral of the story is: I gave up the sporty sedan which was my version of a ‘fast’ car.

Now that you have kids you have to suck-it-up and get a vehicle that has the safety, comfort and room not offered in vehicles that have the “driving dynamics” of a race car. Face it, in California the traffic and roads are crappy. CHPs are thick-as-fleas and are trying to generate revenue. It just isn’t practical to drive a ‘fast’ car in CA. Furthermore, no ‘fast’ car can serve as a tow vehicle. Lastly, having the “driving dynamics” of a race car should be the last priority as you cart your family around.

You are not alone though: My brother, who incidentally is a Delta Pilot, gave up his Mustang GT for a Ford Taurus X. I gave up my Acura for a Chevy Tahoe and still recommend the Tahoe. It will satisfy your towing needs and is extremely comfortable. You can put a ton of gear in the back. Heck if you ski you don’t even need ski racks because your skis will fit in the back. It has a shorter turning radius than most cars and is easy to maneuver around town or on vacation. The 2007 and newer body style handles much better than the older style does. The mileage is not too bad for such a large vehicle either. One thing you get free of charge is safety. We got rear ended by a mid-90s Coupe de Ville. His big car was totaled and ours had a bent bumper. There is something to be said for sheer size and a truck frame. Last but not least, a Black Tahoe Z71 still has an air of coolness to it so you don’t look as emasculated in it as say a minivan.:)

Actually that Touareg/Cayenne/Audi Q7 are quite impressive vehicles although they look too small to carry your gear like a real SUV and they also cost some serious coin. I’m sure there are others out there as well. Good luck.

posted 12-08-2010 06:51 PM ET (US)            

Pleased to meet you Tim, and Greg.

Frontier, I hate that tone and expression are lost in internet postings. It is my pleasure and joy to be with my little girl every second I can. We go to extraordinary measures so that we are with her every minute, and not put her in daycare. In fact, we don't even seek out babysitters as we don't ever feel the need to "take a break" or spend time without her. We are a family now, and even though Rory is still a baby, we do everything we can with her.

BTW, Tony, if you are reading this, and remember some of the pro surfers from the late-70's-early 80's? (the Gerry Lopez era), you will note that my daughter's name is, "Rory Russell". Remember him?

I like that CWW member Dave Sutton refers to the classic 13,15,17 as "powered surfboards", because of the surfing analogy.

posted 12-09-2010 06:14 PM ET (US)            

Re offroad capability, I've done enough insulting the folks with big, stick-axle behemoths, who hold as sanctity, their offroad capability. But when you apply all the tricks like locking diffs and low gearing to an independent suspension with gobs of travel, I don't see how a stick axle could hope for anything better than a tie in offroad capability. And that's not even including gee-whizzery like magnetorheological diff fluids that shunt torque around at the behest of the PCM.

posted 12-09-2010 07:01 PM ET (US)            

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFkzjfCwZKE

and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqqdRZ8B-3M

posted 12-09-2010 08:15 PM ET (US)            

I didn't even know what a Porsche Cayenne was until I read this thread. I DID fantasize plenty about owning a Porsche Speedster when I was a teen back in the early 'sixties, and would love to have one now I guess...but I don't think my doc would let me after all the damage I've done to my aging backbone bouncing around in Whalers for the past eight years ;-)

posted 12-10-2010 09:45 AM ET (US)            

If you only need a tow vehicle 6-8 weekends each year, I suggest you purchase a very well used, ugly but cheap-to-insure Ford or Chevy truck. I'm talking chipped paint, scratched windshield, ripped upholstery $1,500 special. These come up for sale all the time in Farm Country in the Midwest...I assume it's the same all over. It will keep you legal and be very inexpensive over the long haul to own and operate. You could probably literally pay for it in a few years with fuel savings by buying a good used 4 cyl. car for your daily driver, and you will have a very strong "fright factor" for your kid as she/he gets older. "If you don't behave/get good grades, etc, I'll make you drive the old truck to school!"

The only warning, and I hope this is not taken the wrong way - but here in the midwest, the migrant and immigrant labor force LOVE these trucks - they're kind of like Whalers - if you don't move fast, someone else will move in and pick it up in a second. My friend put his truck out on his lawn during his lunch break and it was sold by 2 O'clock that afternoon with earnest money in hand, and the deal was concluded by dinner time. Cash.

Good luck

posted 12-10-2010 10:11 AM ET (US)            

FWIW I am a diehard Porsche guy but wouldn't even consider the Cayenne even if I could afford it. I do have a 2100 pound 1973 911 with over 220 horspower. To me it is a real Porsche. Off roading in a 100K plus vehicle? Not on my watch.

posted 12-10-2010 10:28 AM ET (US)            

Magneto rheological fluid is not used. It is just Mobil 1 75-90 WT oil. There is a viscous cooupling that through F/R wheel speed differential changes the torque in a range of 5-40%. No PSM control over that, just mechanical/fluid action.

posted 12-10-2010 11:03 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

No one but a Porsche factory trained tech should work on em.

---

Magneto rheological fluid is used by Porsche in the GT3 engine mounts.

posted 12-10-2010 11:39 AM ET (US)            

As for the Porsche sound signature. I think it is best demonstrated by a unleashed, unmuffled aircooled 2.7 RSR motor. Complete with velocity stacks, mechanical injection and screaming at 7000 plus rpm. No turbo or supercharging to mask the symphony of pure sex that exits the pipes.

Whaler classics and the P car seem to have a nexus around here. Both in their day were somewhat affordable, light and fast. Both have incredible resale value. Both have a dedicated following and have attained cult status amongst enthusiast and collectors.

Brian

posted 12-10-2010 02:15 PM ET (US)            

Back to real cars, the dirty little amongst us trackies is that the Cayman/Boxter siblings are easier to drive fast, make bad drivers look good, less of a hairy chested he-man car than the 911. Though of course Porsche has done wonders tuning out the snap oversteer.

posted 12-10-2010 04:45 PM ET (US)            

Do you think I can tow my Montauk with my Westfalia Vanagon?

posted 12-10-2010 05:19 PM ET (US)            

I wanna road rage on suckers who pass me pulling trailers when I'm dialed in at 78 MPH - had one idiot go by me when I was doing 82 pulling a boat - big boat like a trailerable Cigarette. Going so fast I couldn't read the decals.

posted 12-10-2010 07:14 PM ET (US)            

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/an86carrera/84%20VW%20Westy/ DSC_0237.jpg

posted 12-11-2010 03:42 AM ET (US)            

Erik

posted 12-11-2010 06:39 AM ET (US)            

I considered the Ford Sport trac but found the quality of the Ridgeline superior.

A few times I could have used a full size bed , but the Ridgeline can hold full sheets of plywood. We all know what they say about dudes finding the need to drive a big truck. I guess the inverse is true for my small truck.

pcrussell50- The term Babysitting is ok by me. Infact Wikipedia mentions this: "In the United States, the term is sometimes used when one parent is at home and the other, who would normally be present, is not."

I find it offensive when people try to tell me how to raise my child or corrected me when I used the term babysitting. Trust me when you are home all day with a child and your spouse is away it can be babysitting at times rather the pc term parenting which sounds silly to me.

posted 12-11-2010 08:24 PM ET (US)            

It is perhaps incongruous, or ironic in nature (maybe neither?) because if it weren't for good old pick-em-up trucks, the evolution of SUV's and their HUGE percentage of domestic market-share, we wouldn't have witnessed the efforts being made by our foreign car manufactures to build these things. And we wouldn't be able to enjoy the entertainment value of this thread on a cold New England Night.

My wife drives a recently purchased 2007 Saab 9-7 (Envoy/Trailblazer platform) with a 5.3 Chevy in it which is rated for 6500 pounds, which will be our tow vehicle for the Boston Whaler we don't have yet.

(Great used SUV value. Our salesman assured me that Saab did 1,000 things "to make it a Saab".)

posted 12-11-2010 11:56 PM ET (US)            

Those 1,000 things?

They were dollars.

Added to the price tag.

...but they did make it a Saab.

posted 12-12-2010 12:10 AM ET (US)            

Newtauk, good choice on the Ridgeline. Do you happen to recall what it's max tow rating is? If I can tow my race car with it, I may have to give it a second look. It's interesting that you mention the stiffness of the F150 in comparison. The reality is that ladder frame trucks are usually a good deal less stiff in torsion than unibodies, even if they are stronger, (not neccessarily stiffer), in bending. Ladder trucks tend to be sprung stiffly too, and in concert with the noodly frame, makes for a very crude ride and dynamics. When you have a torsionally stiff body, like a well designed unibody, you can have a supple suspension and still have a taut, solid feeling, controlled ride. Yet another reason not to suffer a ladder framed truck unless you need the towing capability.
Thanks for the supportive words about child rearing, though I wasn't offended.

posted 12-12-2010 11:47 AM ET (US)            

quote:

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Dudes...if you ever stood behind a 928 at idle....you would cream yourselves. That is the BEST sounding V8 EVER made. Unfortunately it is a bygone era for may reasons. But oh....the sound!!!!!!

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True that. I remember noticing that as a teenager in the 80's. Seems the Germans not only make better offroad vehicles, they are also better at making v8's sound "American", than we Americans are. BMW 5.0L v8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk

Beginning around the 20s mark... I never get tired of this.