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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area More E15 coming soon to a pump near you
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Author | Topic: More E15 coming soon to a pump near you |
russellbailey |
posted 01-21-2011 12:23 PM ET (US)
EPA issued a waiver today to allow E15 usage in 2001-onward cars, SUVs, and light trucks. If you read down, you'll see that the new waiver does not apply to "non-road" engines, which is the classification that marine engines falls under. Unlike the prior waiver for 2007-onward, the new waiver will apply to a large majority of the current vehicle fleet. It will be interesting to see how the gasoline retail market responds to this waiver. Because of problems piping ethanol in the main petroleum distribution pipelines, ethanol is blended into gasoline at the bulk gasoline terminal near the point of sale. So, the big pipelines will still be carrying pure gasoline, but most trucks leaving the distribution terminal will be carrying gas with ethanol blended in. Currently, marinas will not be able to buy E15 (or at least they would be very unwise to, since the waiver does not apply to non-road engines). However, for normal vehicle fueling stations, will distributors replace E10 with E15, add new E15 pumps, or go to just E15 and forego older and non-road vehicles?
EPA Grants E15 Fuel Waiver for Model Years 2001 - 2006 Cars and Light Trucks Agency continues review of public comments for an E15 pump label to help ensure consumers use the correct fuel WASHINGTON – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) today waived a limitation on selling gasoline that contains more than 10 percent ethanol for model year (MY) 2001 through 2006 passenger vehicles, including cars, SUVs, and light pickup trucks. The waiver applies to fuel that contains up to 15 percent ethanol – known as E15. EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson made the decision after a review of the Department of Energy’s thorough testing and other available data on E15’s effect on emissions from MY 2001 through 2006 cars and light trucks. “Recently completed testing and data analysis show that E15 does not harm emissions control equipment in newer cars and light trucks," said EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson. "Wherever sound science and the law support steps to allow more home-grown fuels in America’s vehicles, this administration takes those steps." On October 13, 2010, EPA approved a waiver allowing the use of E15 for MY 2007 and newer cars and light trucks. At that time, EPA denied a request to allow the use of E15 for MY 2000 and older vehicles and postponed its decision on the use of E15 in MY 2001 to 2006 cars and light trucks until DOE completed additional testing for those model years. The Agency also announced that no waiver is being granted this year for E15 use in any motorcycles, heavy-duty vehicles, or non-road engines because current testing data does not support such a waiver. These waivers represent one of a number of actions that are needed from federal, state and industry to commercialize E15 gasoline blends. Also, EPA is developing requirements to ensure that E15 is properly labeled at the gas pump. The label will be designed to prevent refueling into vehicles, engines, and equipment not currently approved for the higher ethanol blend. Ethanol is an alcohol that can be mixed with gasoline to result in a cleaner-burning fuel. E15 is a blend of 15 percent ethanol and 85 percent gasoline. The primary source of ethanol is corn, but other grains or biomass sources may be used such as corn cobs, cornstalks, and switchgrass. The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 mandated an increase in the overall volume of renewable fuels into the marketplace, reaching a 36 billion gallon total in 2022. Ethanol is considered a renewable fuel because it is produced from plant products or wastes and not from fossil fuels. Ethanol is blended with gasoline for use in most areas across the country. EPA granted the waiver after considering the E15 petition submitted by Growth Energy and 54 ethanol manufacturers in March 2009. In April 2009, EPA sought public comment on the petition and received about 78,000 comments. The petition was submitted under a Clean Air Act provision that allows EPA to waive the act’s prohibition against the sale of a significantly altered fuel if the petitioner shows that the new fuel will not cause or contribute to the failure of engine and other emission-related parts that ensure compliance with emission standards. More information: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/ |
JMARTIN |
posted 01-21-2011 01:35 PM ET (US)
"Will distributors replace E10 with E15, add new E15 pumps, or go to just E15 and forego older and non-road vehicles?" I would just sell conventional if I had a dependable supply at a competitive cost.
With conventional, you can sell to everyone, even boaters with old tanks and motors. With E10, well just about everybody but old boaters. With E15, just customers with 2001 year automobiles or newer. I would not be able to buy my own gasoline for my 1998 Ford. I would not be able to sell to a whole bunch of my existing customers. What the EPA, ADM, corn producing states want us to do is offer both E10 and E15. You can not just put in E15 pumps, you also need a E15 tank. Then you need E15 pumps. So put in another pump island or re-plumb your existing islands to offer both. The last option will create lines, less of the pump you want to use, and misfueling, putting E15 in your 2000 Accord. Let's say I put in another tank, actually 3 tanks for the midgrade and super, more pump islands, more pumps. Then they will do away with one of the grades like they did before. Remember leaded and unleaded gasoline? We had to offer both in order to stay in business. When the leaded fuel went away, the refiners invented midgrade so we has something to put in the expensive tank and pumps that we were forced to put in. What a frigging mess. The government set a fixed number of gallons of ethanol to be use each year and due to decreased demand for gasoline, we will not be able to reach that number in 2011 even if every gallon sold is E10. This is one of the reasons for E15. Watch, E15 will get a big tax break making it the least expensive fuel. John |
pcrussell50 |
posted 01-21-2011 02:09 PM ET (US)
quote: Of course it will. How else would something that costs more than gasoline in real life, be able to cost less? That would be like trying to make gravel cheaper by adding diamonds to it. Hey, at least if economics is not one of your strong suits, you may fall for the "broken window fallacy", and see a bright side in this. You might see that: The engine manufacturers benefitting due to more frequent replacement of outboards from alcohol related damage and failure. Engine repair businesses perking up, repairing engines that are not quite a total loss. The cancer industry getting a pick-me-up, because of the aldehydes that are in the exhaust of combusted alcohol*, causing more cancers. The personal injury law suit industry, benefitting from an uptick cancer cases... (And I predict, they will find a way to sue the oil companies, who have been forced to put alcohol in gasoline. One of our own CWW'ers defended the Mercury Marine, propeller lawsuit judgement by saying that the deepest pockets must pay the medical expenses, regardless of culpability. He was ok with that. I bet he won't be the only one, either). To name a few. Oh, goody. -Peter *acetaldehyde, in the case of ethanol |
JMARTIN |
posted 01-25-2011 07:37 PM ET (US)
Maybe more than E15 is on the horizon. Messing with supply and demand again and then complain about price. From the PMMA FUEL CHOICE ACT RE-INTRODUCED The bill would require “major fuel distributors” to install at least one blender pump at an increasing number of the refueling stations which they own or through which they market, at this level: 10% by 2014, 20% by 2016, 35% by 2018, and 50% by 2020 and thereafter. A “major fuel distributor” is defined as a person who owns a refinery or directly markets the output of a refinery, but not including any person that owns or directly markets through less than 50 retail fueling stations. The proposal would authorize grants for installation of retail ethanol blend fueling infrastructure including blender pumps, tanks, and associated equipment. Grants may be up to 50% of project costs, but they are not available to major fuel distributors. Grants would be eligible for $50,000,000 in 2012 and up to $350,000,000 in 2015. Finally, the bill would also mandate that half of all new passenger vehicles be flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) capable of burning E85 by the year 2014, and the legislation would create a federal loan guarantee program for pipelines to carry ethanol from production facilities to markets. Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (D-SD) and Rep. Adrian Smith (R-NE) introduced similar legislation last year. The Consumer Vehicle Choice Act of 2010 (H.R. 5633) and the Consumer Fuels Choice Act of 2010 (H.R.5632). PMAA held discussions with Senator Harkin and Sandlin’s staffs on this legislation last year, and we will begin that dialogue once again. A key concern to PMAA are the costly infrastructure mandates imposed on petroleum marketers. The measure could unfairly penalize over 1000 petroleum marketing/jobber companies who own some retail outlets but also supply gasoline to independent gas stations and convenience stores. Additionally, it is important that the cost of replacing underground storage tanks, piping, sumps and dispensers not be minimized. Ironically, many of the companies targeted to bear these new infrastructure costs are the same companies that will bear the $ 3,000.00 per employee health care penalty approved by Congress last year. The marketplace is too competitive for companies to bear these costs." |
jimh |
posted 01-26-2011 09:31 AM ET (US)
I can't imagine that the majority of public comments were in favor of more ethanol. I suspect that the EPA ignored most public comments. I wonder if the comments are published anywhere. Since the government via the EPA came up with the idea of ethanol, they obviously think it is a good idea. If you operate under the paradigm that 10-percent Ethanol = Good then it is a simple intellectual process to convince yourself that 15-percent Ethanol = Better For the moment, in Michigan we at least have regulations that required clear labeling at the pump if the Ethanol content is greater than 10-percent. The Ethanol lobby was able to remove the labeling requirements for under 10-percent Ethanol content a few years ago, even though there was opposition to it from within the state regulatory agency itself. I guess money always talks with legislators, especially with lame-duck legislators who were term limited. |
russellbailey |
posted 01-26-2011 10:03 AM ET (US)
jimh, While I have not read the comments on EPA's rulemaking, they should be all compiled in the docket to the rule. Docket ID: EPA-HQ-OAR-2010-0448 This link may work If not, you can get there via going to |
Russ 13 |
posted 01-27-2011 04:18 AM ET (US)
Questions: If adding ethanol to fuel reduces the amount of energy the fuel produces, how can 15% be an improvement?? If it takes more "blended" fuel to produce the same energy as "unblended" fuel how is that "Greener" when you are INCREASING consumption?? Not to mention all the negative mechanical problems associated with ethanol blended fuel. Did anyone know about the "public" hearings before they made the decision to implement 15% corn juice?? It's just another BAD Idea. .. There must be allot of corn farmers making up for the thousands of jobs lost in the oil and support industries. If the U.S. wants to become more energy independant. Why is the Gulf of Mexico still off-limits to drilling? |
jimh |
posted 01-27-2011 01:43 PM ET (US)
Russell--A big thank-you to you for the link. It does work. Here is a hyperlink: http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;rpp=10;so=DESC;sb=postedDate; po=0;D=EPA-HQ-OAR-2010-0448 I was able to view and read comments. So far I have just browsed one or two. |
JMARTIN |
posted 01-27-2011 04:50 PM ET (US)
I looked at a couple, for example G.Miller and K.Alverson. It's deja vu all over again. John |
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