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MarthaB posted 03-04-2011 08:32 PM ET (US)
Check out this newspaper article. Not a first conviction, but second conviction.
http://record-eagle.com/local/x831627130/ Canadian-importer-fined-for-Asian-carp-possession
fno posted 03-04-2011 11:16 PM ET (US)
Sounds like Feng Yang is stocking up the lunchtime buffet. He's probably pissed that he has to cross the border and drive so far to get his lobster tail and scallops for the buffet.
home Aside posted 03-05-2011 10:19 AM ET (US)
Interesting, but not a very informative article, where did he get caught with them? where did they come from? an why is the story coming from Traverse city?
Pat
Buckda posted 03-05-2011 10:26 AM ET (US)
Traverse City is the location of the Associated Press reporter for Great Lakes topics - this is by request of that reporter - you'll notice that much of the news about Asian Carp and other ecological problems faced by the lakes and surrounding states is generated with a TC dateline.
My opinion is that there should be a three-strike rule on this kind of thing - and the individual should face deportation upon conviction of a third offense. This is inexcusable.
deepwater posted 03-05-2011 10:46 AM ET (US)
Why wait 3 times,,He endangered thousands of miles of shoreline and countless breeding areas of food fish not to mention the hazards of jumping carp past and into moving boats,,What do you think a 20lb carp could to a 50lb child moving at 25 mph,,He gets one fine one time
PeteB88 posted 03-05-2011 10:46 AM ET (US)
Agree Dave -
Sometimes (a lot of the time) it's not the reporter it's the editor that chops up and redlines stories. Wouldn't be surprised if that is the case here.
Some of you might remember the crisis of the Taiwanese (generally blamed) monofilament drift nets in Pacific Ocean off Oregon and WA coast. These "walls of death" would be set sometimes 50 miles long and would often break loose and just float along catching everything that happened into one.
No one had a solution so I said - "we have the best Air National Guard fighter squadron in the country with F15s. Why don't we send a message to those violators that in 20 minutes your drift net boats are going to be vaporized so you all better abandon ship or get those nets and your asses out of here. We'll send a Coast Guard vessel out to pick you up...F 15s on their way..."
I since lost track of what's if anything is going on with those drift nets. Curious.
jimh posted 03-06-2011 06:54 PM ET (US)
The DETROIT NEWS is carrying a story today that Michigan Senator Debbie Stabenow is backing legislation to stop the infiltration of Asian Carp into Lake Michigan. This is remarkable for several reasons. To the best of my recollection it is the first time I have read anything about Senator Debbie Stabenow in the seven or eight years that she has been a Senator that did not first mention Senator Carl Levin. He was not mentioned in this article. Until now, any time I have ever heard or seen Senator Stabenow, she is always standing three feet behind Senator Levin and one foot to the left and I think the two of them vote in unison at all times.
It was courageous for Debbie Stabenow to come out with a stand on this issue. I would liken it to supporting a bill to fund research into a cure for lung cancer that did not involve any reduction in cigarette advertising.
The legislation apparently is also supported by the Illinois delegation, and puts the burden on the Army Corps of Engineers to find some way to keep all the commercial water ways open for business but to stop the Asian Carp from passing.
Wow--that is such a great idea!
Make sure nothing is done to cause any harm to commercial interests in Illinois and protect the $10-billion boating and fishing industry in Michigan, too. Come on, Army Corps of Engineers, let's get off your duff and solve this for Debbie. She even says her legistlation will "light a fire under the Army Corps of Engineers." Hey--you go, girl. Maybe once Debbie solves this problem for us she can turn her attention to other big problems like E15 or Global Warming. I can hardly wait.
contender posted 03-06-2011 07:12 PM ET (US)
I watch a program a couple night ago on/about these carp. It really looks bad for you guys up north and I feel sorry for you all. But I will tell you something if they do not do something and do it quick, the fish will hit the great lakes they will explode and it will be all over....
pcrussell50 posted 03-06-2011 08:15 PM ET (US)
Not to make light of it...
If life deals that lemon out to the 'Lakers, I hope they rise to the occasion and make lemonade, along the lines of commercial uses for Asian carp, that we have discussed in other threads. Just because we Amercans have cultural issues with eating carp, does not mean we have to let it sink us. There is a need in this worked for high grade protein, even if we wont eat it ourselves.
-Peter
MarthaB posted 03-06-2011 08:17 PM ET (US)
John Fleisher is an AP reporter living in Traverse City. I agree that the article wasn't loaded with info. The TC Record Eagle just entered into the world of "limited" online (free) version. FYI - I no longer subscribe to the paper, because it is only good for the bottom of a hamster cage or for puppies to urinate on.
My question is, does this new legislation go far enough? We need to protect the entire Great Lakes Basin. What if Feng dumped, whether accidental or intentional, the Asian Carp into a Canadian river or an American transporting carp in Ohio dumped them in the Maumee River? Maybe my concern is covered in the legislation, guess I should read it.

Lohff posted 03-06-2011 09:20 PM ET (US)
I don't think the Asian Carp will stay in the Great Lakes long once they get here. With all the Zebra and Quagga Mussels eating everything, there will be nothing for the Carp. Hate to say it, but the Great Lakes are on the verge of destruction.
pcrussell50 posted 03-06-2011 10:04 PM ET (US)
Destroyed? Color me skeptical. Radically changed from what is is now? Sure, quite possible, and over geologic time, a virtual certainty. Then again, it's all a matter of perspective. Ask a brontosaurus, and he'd say the world was destroyed. Reality shows that opinion as far from reality.
-Peter
towboater posted 03-08-2011 03:47 AM ET (US)
Litigate a bounty!
http://www.pikeminnow.org/
Lohff posted 03-08-2011 05:15 AM ET (US)
Peter
I should explain my opinion. Sure, the water quality actually has improved over the years, however, I'm talking about the ecosystem of the Great Lakes.
I've fished the Great Lakes system for over 50 years. The fish population has been declining due to several reasons; over-fishing by commercial, tribal, and sportsmen included. But the invasive species around the Great Lakes are starting to take control.
The Lamprey, which came up the Welland Canal, almost devastated the lake trout fishery, until expensive control measures have slowed that somewhat. The Cormorant almost wiped out the perch and minnow (baitfish) population until duck hunters (and irate fisherman) came to the rescue.
Then the ocean-going freighters! They drop off ballast water that includes a fish killing virus (VHS), Ruffe and Goby fish that eat fish eggs, and the Zebra and Quagga mussels.
It is known that the VHS is killing the non-native salmon; hopefully, not other species like walleye, perch, pike, whitefish, etc.
I haven't heard much of the ruffe and Goby since all of the talk of the Asian Carp. But what is scary is the ability of the Zebra, and especially the Quagga mussel to disrupt the ecosystem.
The Quagga are consuming the phytoplankton (which is why the water is cleaner looking) faster than it is being produced. The zooplankton eat the phytoplankton. Fish eat the zooplankton. Get the picture?
The Great Lakes system is a beautiful, unique body of water that is second to none for boating. It was once a fisherman's paradise. And the fishing won't get any better for a long time. Something has to be done with the invasive species in the system. The power/money-hungry politicians and judges have done nothing. You don't even hear the conservationists saying much about the Great Lakes. Is there anybody out there?
PeteB88 posted 03-08-2011 05:31 AM ET (US)
Lohff - As retired DNR toxicologist, fisherman and author Jim Bedford told me a few months ago "I doubt that Mr Asia Carp will make a living in Lake Michigan but he will thrive in our rivers..." that's what the scientists who fish and who know worry about most. As I understand it the St Joe River will be the first. As some of you know those larger tributaries are nutrient rich and support excellent populations of warm water fish. A carp will explode in those waters where salmon and steelhead spawn naturally or are released as smolts.
Dr Howard Tanner, who is the fisheries scientist who is credited with successfully planting Pacific salmon in the Great Lakes (it was attempted and failed 35 times before he got it right in 1964 to control another invasive, alewives) told the Izaac Walton League chapter in Grand Rapids last Friday night that the only solution is to create barriers to entirely separate the Mississippi R system from the Great Lakes.
I am working with him to release his statement on this matter. Stand by.
If any of you Michigan or Great Lakes members out there would like to have Howard speak to your group, fishing or conservation club let me know. His presentation on the Great Lakes Salmon Story is fascinating and at 87 y/o he does a great job with historic photos, the true story laced with details and humor.
Are we ready to do something effective?
The courts, legislature and so-called environmental groups will not and have not been effective. It's up to the people
I've said it before and I will say it again - "IF this was Crater Lake there'd be 20,000 people up there with chain link and tight mesh fence, generators, arc welders making their own electrified fish barriers to stop the fish while the government figures out what to do....with another 5,000 lined up at the state house"
Lohff posted 03-08-2011 05:45 AM ET (US)
PeteB88...Thanks for that.
Buckda posted 03-08-2011 08:52 AM ET (US)
Even with a physical barrier between the Mississippi River system and the Great Lakes, there will be problems - Mr. Feng Yang has just proven that.
I really hate additional government regulations, but on this particular topic, it's time for the Great Lakes states, the US Government and the Ontario and Canadian governments to get together.
Can someone be banished from a state? I think that would be appropriate action for repeat offenders like Mr. Yang. If you can'd deport him (I don't believe you can deport American Citizens from the US), then perhaps you can limit their travel in and around the Great Lakes Watershed.
The (UK) Telegraph recently published an article about the town of Happy, Tx, and the depletion of the Ogallala (sp?) Aquifer, which stretches from N. Texas up into Nebraska. The upthrust of the story was that the water supply in the near and far west is continuing to deplete, and America is going to be thirsty - for our crops and for our communities.
The Great Lakes states have a unique opportunity to harvest this great resource (responsibly and sustainably!) to rejuvenate our population centers and generate a lot of economic activity.
This is very quickly going to become a Federal vs. National system question here in America. Do the states control the lakes, or does the US government?
If the states control the lakes - then there is hope for a great boom in our economies.
If the US government controls the lakes, then there will be a lot of pipelines built, because our "power" in Washington is waning due to population decline.
I suspect if we sit on our hands much longer (MN, WI, IN, IL, MI, OH, NY, PA, and ON), we'll find out very quickly that the US government will step in and direct things.
Guess who will get "our" water then?
Do I hear Dallas?
Do I hear Houston?
Do I hear LA?
How about it Atlanta?
Moose posted 03-08-2011 10:24 AM ET (US)
I read in the Detroit Free Press that he was fined $50,000 for this attempt with TWO TONS of fish. Seems to be a minimum of one zero short on the fine. This was his second conviction, wonder how many loads made it through with no trouble or fines?
I have no idea what type of systems, etc., they have in place at the border, but the current level of sophistication is impressive. I've had agents in Port Huron/Detroit ask me about a home run hit in the 3rd inning of the game last night, the relief pitcher blowing a lead in the 9th, or where did we eat in Chinatown? I used to reply with a 'huh'? Then I realized that the agent in Windsor/Sarina must have entered some info about my plan to attend a Blue Jays game, etc., when I entered Canada. These type of things have happened too often to be a coincidence, they REALLY know what you're doing. I'd hate to be a college kid making a Saturday afternoon beer run to The Soo like we used to.
So, how does a guy like this enter the USA in a truck capable of carrying a couple tons of fish after his first conviction?
A2J15Sport posted 03-08-2011 09:47 PM ET (US)
"So, how does a guy like this enter the USA in a truck capable of carrying a couple tons of fish after his first conviction?".
Easy. We're not allowed to profile.
skinnywater posted 03-08-2011 10:25 PM ET (US)
We have a winner -
Buckda posted 03-09-2011 09:20 AM ET (US)
The way I read the article, he was transporting the fish from the US and was caught by the Canadians at the Border.
So he didn't enter the US with the fish, he was attempting to leave the US with the fish.
Moose posted 03-09-2011 09:59 AM ET (US)
Dave,
Right. That's the way I took the story too. He entered the US with an empty truck that has the ability to carry two tons of fish.
He had already been busted for the same violation, that info should've been on the computer screen about two seconds after the agent entered his name. Maybe our agents knew all that, had to let him pass since he wasn't hauling anything at that point, probably hard to prove intent to smuggle fish. Maybe easier to send the Canadian agents a BOLO about his return trip, bust him loaded. Wonder how they treat him now with two convictions? Now he'll have to hire a driver to make the future trips.
Buckda posted 03-09-2011 10:12 AM ET (US)
That may be exactly what happened behind the scenes.
If he's a Canadian citizen (sounds like he is), I know for fact that the border agents have "long memories" of past transgressions....I know a couple Canadians who got busted for things in their younger years and regularly get "extra screening" when they try to re-enter from the US.
I imagine our agents have similarly long memories....
Hoosier posted 03-09-2011 11:41 AM ET (US)
Going back to Pat's question, where the hell did he get 4000 pounds of live carp? If someone's farming them near the Great Lakes watershed it needs to be shut down.
Moose posted 03-09-2011 01:15 PM ET (US)
Yes, I wonder if someone on the Illinois River is running some type of black market wholesale supply operation. I can't see Mr. Yang driving here, getting his rod and reel out and catching his 4,000 lbs.
I could be too optimistic with this thought, but maybe part of the reason he was able to pull this off a second time is they were taking a look at where he went in the US, how he got the fish, who may have helped, etc. Hope we hear some more on this.
David Pendleton posted 03-09-2011 05:47 PM ET (US)

quote:
Going back to Pat's question, where the hell did he get 4000 pounds of live carp? If someone's farming them near the Great Lakes watershed it needs to be shut down.
They are fished commercially on the Illinois and Mississippi Rivers.
pcrussell50 posted 03-09-2011 06:04 PM ET (US)
Going back to the beginning of the thread, the article was quite short... my take was that he was planning to eat them, or serve them or sell them as food product to customers. Not sure how that particular case hurts the lakes unless it does so indirectly by encouraging a market for them.
If we ever did go to a bounty system as a method of eradication and control, then the dude might be a hero for taking the fish away from where they cause harm, to where they can't, (inside a human stomach).
-Peter
Buckda posted 03-09-2011 06:26 PM ET (US)
Peter -
If they were dead and on ice being shipped to restaurants and markets, ok.
Live fish - no way.
All it takes is a car accident near a stream.....
Hoosier posted 03-18-2011 02:47 AM ET (US)
This article gives a good bit of detail about this; dead fish aren't.
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-carp-smuggled-canada.html
Moose posted 03-18-2011 03:49 PM ET (US)
Interesting, alive for 24 hours on ice. I had this all wrong. I thought they where in some type of tank with the smugglers doing everything they could to keep them alive during the trip. Liked the comment about the Canadians being willing to prosecute.
MarthaB posted 03-22-2011 07:48 AM ET (US)
Have been wondering if live Asian Carp were prohibited from being transported across state borders, the answer was a big NO. Maybe the feds have been getting an ear full from concerned citizens and state governments.
http://record-eagle.com/statenews/x2002723369/ U-S-adds-bighead-carp-to-transfer-ban
cohasett73 posted 04-06-2011 01:07 PM ET (US)
This will make bighead carp look harmless.
Dikerogammarus villosus, Killer shrimp!!!!
Tom from Rubicon, WI
Waterwonderland posted 04-10-2011 08:38 PM ET (US)
While this video is somewhat humorous, it does show how prolific the Asian Carp could become when it invades a river or lake. We can also see how dangerous it would be if some boater is clipping along and someone in the boat was hit by one.
Thirsty Whaler posted 04-15-2011 04:50 PM ET (US)
The native inshore gammarid (Gammarus faciatus and Gammarus lacustris) amphipods of the Great Lakes have already been eliminated by invasives.

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Author	Topic: Asian Carp in Ontario
MarthaB	posted 03-04-2011 08:32 PM ET (US) Check out this newspaper article. Not a first conviction, but second conviction. http://record-eagle.com/local/x831627130/ Canadian-importer-fined-for-Asian-carp-possession
fno	posted 03-04-2011 11:16 PM ET (US) Sounds like Feng Yang is stocking up the lunchtime buffet. He's probably pissed that he has to cross the border and drive so far to get his lobster tail and scallops for the buffet.
home Aside	posted 03-05-2011 10:19 AM ET (US) Interesting, but not a very informative article, where did he get caught with them? where did they come from? an why is the story coming from Traverse city? Pat
Buckda	posted 03-05-2011 10:26 AM ET (US) Traverse City is the location of the Associated Press reporter for Great Lakes topics - this is by request of that reporter - you'll notice that much of the news about Asian Carp and other ecological problems faced by the lakes and surrounding states is generated with a TC dateline. My opinion is that there should be a three-strike rule on this kind of thing - and the individual should face deportation upon conviction of a third offense. This is inexcusable.
deepwater	posted 03-05-2011 10:46 AM ET (US) Why wait 3 times,,He endangered thousands of miles of shoreline and countless breeding areas of food fish not to mention the hazards of jumping carp past and into moving boats,,What do you think a 20lb carp could to a 50lb child moving at 25 mph,,He gets one fine one time
PeteB88	posted 03-05-2011 10:46 AM ET (US) Agree Dave - Sometimes (a lot of the time) it's not the reporter it's the editor that chops up and redlines stories. Wouldn't be surprised if that is the case here. Some of you might remember the crisis of the Taiwanese (generally blamed) monofilament drift nets in Pacific Ocean off Oregon and WA coast. These "walls of death" would be set sometimes 50 miles long and would often break loose and just float along catching everything that happened into one. No one had a solution so I said - "we have the best Air National Guard fighter squadron in the country with F15s. Why don't we send a message to those violators that in 20 minutes your drift net boats are going to be vaporized so you all better abandon ship or get those nets and your asses out of here. We'll send a Coast Guard vessel out to pick you up...F 15s on their way..." I since lost track of what's if anything is going on with those drift nets. Curious.
jimh	posted 03-06-2011 06:54 PM ET (US) The DETROIT NEWS is carrying a story today that Michigan Senator Debbie Stabenow is backing legislation to stop the infiltration of Asian Carp into Lake Michigan. This is remarkable for several reasons. To the best of my recollection it is the first time I have read anything about Senator Debbie Stabenow in the seven or eight years that she has been a Senator that did not first mention Senator Carl Levin. He was not mentioned in this article. Until now, any time I have ever heard or seen Senator Stabenow, she is always standing three feet behind Senator Levin and one foot to the left and I think the two of them vote in unison at all times. It was courageous for Debbie Stabenow to come out with a stand on this issue. I would liken it to supporting a bill to fund research into a cure for lung cancer that did not involve any reduction in cigarette advertising. The legislation apparently is also supported by the Illinois delegation, and puts the burden on the Army Corps of Engineers to find some way to keep all the commercial water ways open for business but to stop the Asian Carp from passing. Wow--that is such a great idea! Make sure nothing is done to cause any harm to commercial interests in Illinois and protect the $10-billion boating and fishing industry in Michigan, too. Come on, Army Corps of Engineers, let's get off your duff and solve this for Debbie. She even says her legistlation will "light a fire under the Army Corps of Engineers." Hey--you go, girl. Maybe once Debbie solves this problem for us she can turn her attention to other big problems like E15 or Global Warming. I can hardly wait.
contender	posted 03-06-2011 07:12 PM ET (US) I watch a program a couple night ago on/about these carp. It really looks bad for you guys up north and I feel sorry for you all. But I will tell you something if they do not do something and do it quick, the fish will hit the great lakes they will explode and it will be all over....
pcrussell50	posted 03-06-2011 08:15 PM ET (US) Not to make light of it... If life deals that lemon out to the 'Lakers, I hope they rise to the occasion and make lemonade, along the lines of commercial uses for Asian carp, that we have discussed in other threads. Just because we Amercans have cultural issues with eating carp, does not mean we have to let it sink us. There is a need in this worked for high grade protein, even if we wont eat it ourselves. -Peter
MarthaB	posted 03-06-2011 08:17 PM ET (US) John Fleisher is an AP reporter living in Traverse City. I agree that the article wasn't loaded with info. The TC Record Eagle just entered into the world of "limited" online (free) version. FYI - I no longer subscribe to the paper, because it is only good for the bottom of a hamster cage or for puppies to urinate on. My question is, does this new legislation go far enough? We need to protect the entire Great Lakes Basin. What if Feng dumped, whether accidental or intentional, the Asian Carp into a Canadian river or an American transporting carp in Ohio dumped them in the Maumee River? Maybe my concern is covered in the legislation, guess I should read it.
Lohff	posted 03-06-2011 09:20 PM ET (US) I don't think the Asian Carp will stay in the Great Lakes long once they get here. With all the Zebra and Quagga Mussels eating everything, there will be nothing for the Carp. Hate to say it, but the Great Lakes are on the verge of destruction.
pcrussell50	posted 03-06-2011 10:04 PM ET (US) Destroyed? Color me skeptical. Radically changed from what is is now? Sure, quite possible, and over geologic time, a virtual certainty. Then again, it's all a matter of perspective. Ask a brontosaurus, and he'd say the world was destroyed. Reality shows that opinion as far from reality. -Peter
towboater	posted 03-08-2011 03:47 AM ET (US) Litigate a bounty! http://www.pikeminnow.org/
Lohff	posted 03-08-2011 05:15 AM ET (US) Peter I should explain my opinion. Sure, the water quality actually has improved over the years, however, I'm talking about the ecosystem of the Great Lakes. I've fished the Great Lakes system for over 50 years. The fish population has been declining due to several reasons; over-fishing by commercial, tribal, and sportsmen included. But the invasive species around the Great Lakes are starting to take control. The Lamprey, which came up the Welland Canal, almost devastated the lake trout fishery, until expensive control measures have slowed that somewhat. The Cormorant almost wiped out the perch and minnow (baitfish) population until duck hunters (and irate fisherman) came to the rescue. Then the ocean-going freighters! They drop off ballast water that includes a fish killing virus (VHS), Ruffe and Goby fish that eat fish eggs, and the Zebra and Quagga mussels. It is known that the VHS is killing the non-native salmon; hopefully, not other species like walleye, perch, pike, whitefish, etc. I haven't heard much of the ruffe and Goby since all of the talk of the Asian Carp. But what is scary is the ability of the Zebra, and especially the Quagga mussel to disrupt the ecosystem. The Quagga are consuming the phytoplankton (which is why the water is cleaner looking) faster than it is being produced. The zooplankton eat the phytoplankton. Fish eat the zooplankton. Get the picture? The Great Lakes system is a beautiful, unique body of water that is second to none for boating. It was once a fisherman's paradise. And the fishing won't get any better for a long time. Something has to be done with the invasive species in the system. The power/money-hungry politicians and judges have done nothing. You don't even hear the conservationists saying much about the Great Lakes. Is there anybody out there?
PeteB88	posted 03-08-2011 05:31 AM ET (US) Lohff - As retired DNR toxicologist, fisherman and author Jim Bedford told me a few months ago "I doubt that Mr Asia Carp will make a living in Lake Michigan but he will thrive in our rivers..." that's what the scientists who fish and who know worry about most. As I understand it the St Joe River will be the first. As some of you know those larger tributaries are nutrient rich and support excellent populations of warm water fish. A carp will explode in those waters where salmon and steelhead spawn naturally or are released as smolts. Dr Howard Tanner, who is the fisheries scientist who is credited with successfully planting Pacific salmon in the Great Lakes (it was attempted and failed 35 times before he got it right in 1964 to control another invasive, alewives) told the Izaac Walton League chapter in Grand Rapids last Friday night that the only solution is to create barriers to entirely separate the Mississippi R system from the Great Lakes. I am working with him to release his statement on this matter. Stand by. If any of you Michigan or Great Lakes members out there would like to have Howard speak to your group, fishing or conservation club let me know. His presentation on the Great Lakes Salmon Story is fascinating and at 87 y/o he does a great job with historic photos, the true story laced with details and humor. Are we ready to do something effective? The courts, legislature and so-called environmental groups will not and have not been effective. It's up to the people I've said it before and I will say it again - "IF this was Crater Lake there'd be 20,000 people up there with chain link and tight mesh fence, generators, arc welders making their own electrified fish barriers to stop the fish while the government figures out what to do....with another 5,000 lined up at the state house"
Lohff	posted 03-08-2011 05:45 AM ET (US) PeteB88...Thanks for that.
Buckda	posted 03-08-2011 08:52 AM ET (US) Even with a physical barrier between the Mississippi River system and the Great Lakes, there will be problems - Mr. Feng Yang has just proven that. I really hate additional government regulations, but on this particular topic, it's time for the Great Lakes states, the US Government and the Ontario and Canadian governments to get together. Can someone be banished from a state? I think that would be appropriate action for repeat offenders like Mr. Yang. If you can'd deport him (I don't believe you can deport American Citizens from the US), then perhaps you can limit their travel in and around the Great Lakes Watershed. The (UK) Telegraph recently published an article about the town of Happy, Tx, and the depletion of the Ogallala (sp?) Aquifer, which stretches from N. Texas up into Nebraska. The upthrust of the story was that the water supply in the near and far west is continuing to deplete, and America is going to be thirsty - for our crops and for our communities. The Great Lakes states have a unique opportunity to harvest this great resource (responsibly and sustainably!) to rejuvenate our population centers and generate a lot of economic activity. This is very quickly going to become a Federal vs. National system question here in America. Do the states control the lakes, or does the US government? If the states control the lakes - then there is hope for a great boom in our economies. If the US government controls the lakes, then there will be a lot of pipelines built, because our "power" in Washington is waning due to population decline. I suspect if we sit on our hands much longer (MN, WI, IN, IL, MI, OH, NY, PA, and ON), we'll find out very quickly that the US government will step in and direct things. Guess who will get "our" water then? Do I hear Dallas? Do I hear Houston? Do I hear LA? How about it Atlanta?
Moose	posted 03-08-2011 10:24 AM ET (US) I read in the Detroit Free Press that he was fined $50,000 for this attempt with TWO TONS of fish. Seems to be a minimum of one zero short on the fine. This was his second conviction, wonder how many loads made it through with no trouble or fines? I have no idea what type of systems, etc., they have in place at the border, but the current level of sophistication is impressive. I've had agents in Port Huron/Detroit ask me about a home run hit in the 3rd inning of the game last night, the relief pitcher blowing a lead in the 9th, or where did we eat in Chinatown? I used to reply with a 'huh'? Then I realized that the agent in Windsor/Sarina must have entered some info about my plan to attend a Blue Jays game, etc., when I entered Canada. These type of things have happened too often to be a coincidence, they REALLY know what you're doing. I'd hate to be a college kid making a Saturday afternoon beer run to The Soo like we used to. So, how does a guy like this enter the USA in a truck capable of carrying a couple tons of fish after his first conviction?
A2J15Sport	posted 03-08-2011 09:47 PM ET (US) "So, how does a guy like this enter the USA in a truck capable of carrying a couple tons of fish after his first conviction?". Easy. We're not allowed to profile.
skinnywater	posted 03-08-2011 10:25 PM ET (US) We have a winner -
Buckda	posted 03-09-2011 09:20 AM ET (US) The way I read the article, he was transporting the fish from the US and was caught by the Canadians at the Border. So he didn't enter the US with the fish, he was attempting to leave the US with the fish.
Moose	posted 03-09-2011 09:59 AM ET (US) Dave, Right. That's the way I took the story too. He entered the US with an empty truck that has the ability to carry two tons of fish. He had already been busted for the same violation, that info should've been on the computer screen about two seconds after the agent entered his name. Maybe our agents knew all that, had to let him pass since he wasn't hauling anything at that point, probably hard to prove intent to smuggle fish. Maybe easier to send the Canadian agents a BOLO about his return trip, bust him loaded. Wonder how they treat him now with two convictions? Now he'll have to hire a driver to make the future trips.
Buckda	posted 03-09-2011 10:12 AM ET (US) That may be exactly what happened behind the scenes. If he's a Canadian citizen (sounds like he is), I know for fact that the border agents have "long memories" of past transgressions....I know a couple Canadians who got busted for things in their younger years and regularly get "extra screening" when they try to re-enter from the US. I imagine our agents have similarly long memories....
Hoosier	posted 03-09-2011 11:41 AM ET (US) Going back to Pat's question, where the hell did he get 4000 pounds of live carp? If someone's farming them near the Great Lakes watershed it needs to be shut down.
Moose	posted 03-09-2011 01:15 PM ET (US) Yes, I wonder if someone on the Illinois River is running some type of black market wholesale supply operation. I can't see Mr. Yang driving here, getting his rod and reel out and catching his 4,000 lbs. I could be too optimistic with this thought, but maybe part of the reason he was able to pull this off a second time is they were taking a look at where he went in the US, how he got the fish, who may have helped, etc. Hope we hear some more on this.
David Pendleton	posted 03-09-2011 05:47 PM ET (US) quote: Going back to Pat's question, where the hell did he get 4000 pounds of live carp? If someone's farming them near the Great Lakes watershed it needs to be shut down. They are fished commercially on the Illinois and Mississippi Rivers.
pcrussell50	posted 03-09-2011 06:04 PM ET (US) Going back to the beginning of the thread, the article was quite short... my take was that he was planning to eat them, or serve them or sell them as food product to customers. Not sure how that particular case hurts the lakes unless it does so indirectly by encouraging a market for them. If we ever did go to a bounty system as a method of eradication and control, then the dude might be a hero for taking the fish away from where they cause harm, to where they can't, (inside a human stomach). -Peter
Buckda	posted 03-09-2011 06:26 PM ET (US) Peter - If they were dead and on ice being shipped to restaurants and markets, ok. Live fish - no way. All it takes is a car accident near a stream.....
Hoosier	posted 03-18-2011 02:47 AM ET (US) This article gives a good bit of detail about this; dead fish aren't. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-carp-smuggled-canada.html
Moose	posted 03-18-2011 03:49 PM ET (US) Interesting, alive for 24 hours on ice. I had this all wrong. I thought they where in some type of tank with the smugglers doing everything they could to keep them alive during the trip. Liked the comment about the Canadians being willing to prosecute.
MarthaB	posted 03-22-2011 07:48 AM ET (US) Have been wondering if live Asian Carp were prohibited from being transported across state borders, the answer was a big NO. Maybe the feds have been getting an ear full from concerned citizens and state governments. http://record-eagle.com/statenews/x2002723369/ U-S-adds-bighead-carp-to-transfer-ban
cohasett73	posted 04-06-2011 01:07 PM ET (US) This will make bighead carp look harmless. Dikerogammarus villosus, Killer shrimp!!!! Tom from Rubicon, WI
Waterwonderland	posted 04-10-2011 08:38 PM ET (US) While this video is somewhat humorous, it does show how prolific the Asian Carp could become when it invades a river or lake. We can also see how dangerous it would be if some boater is clipping along and someone in the boat was hit by one.
Thirsty Whaler	posted 04-15-2011 04:50 PM ET (US) The native inshore gammarid (Gammarus faciatus and Gammarus lacustris) amphipods of the Great Lakes have already been eliminated by invasives.