posted 04-12-2011 09:21 PM ET (US)            

"I wonder what caused [the boat with an E-TEC engine] to go out of control?"

posted 04-13-2011 10:03 AM ET (US)            

http://www.tcoasttalk.com/2011/04/13/ejected-boater-still-missing-identified-as-vero-beach-man/

Sounds like a good guy, it's a shame to loose him. An unfortunate reminder to always use your lanyard.

posted 04-13-2011 04:17 PM ET (US)            

Is there a mechanism on the ETEC or other modern engine that can override the throttle? In other words if you were to hit something that damages the lower end would the engine computer send a response to lock up the throttle? I only ask because it would seem an experienced boater such as Mr. Hill would likely pull back the throttle if something were to happen. Its sounds like a chain reaction that resulted in an out of control boat that could not be settled down using the obvious methods and there was no time to react especially if the experienced operator was sadly knocked over.

posted 04-14-2011 03:27 AM ET (US)         

This is precisely the reason why on my inherited Classic Montauk I'm getting a safety lanyard switch added - as we speak.(even before I knew about this tragedy).

I'm relatively new to Whalers and whilst they may be unsinkable, the low sides to me (at first)are a little disconcerting, as in Australia we usually fish offshore (in often sloppy water which pitches the boat) with boats that have high sides - which help not only in keeping water out but perhaps more importantly the crew in (ie onboard). Yes, I know there's handrails etc etc, but falling overboard is potentially a recipe for disaster, even in calm waters. I feel one has to operate assuming one could fall in the water even in calm conditions - use your lanyard + wear a comfortable PFD (lifejacket)and don't go alone - at least that way if things go pear-shaped you have a good chance. Not to mention hypotermia from prolonged exposure - but hey you actually have to live long enough in the drink to get hypothermia....

As a survivor of a calm water capsize (13ft dinghy, 15 Yamaha tiller steer, tiller was let go at WOT by accident, flipped in an instant, jack-knifed the rig, lucky it was on an inland river, lost all gear etc etc), you can't take any chances.

I feel one should operate on the assumption that "if you go in the drink you will not be coming out alive", brutal as it sounds. Here in Sydney Australia we lose a lot of rock fisherman - I've done a fair bit of it, it's very exciting but no fish is worth a life.

posted 04-14-2011 08:14 AM ET (US)            

Some comments and answers to:

quote:

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Is there a mechanism on the ETEC or other modern engine that can override the throttle?.

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and

quote:

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If I was a family member I would insist on having that ETEC looked over with a magnifying glass to rule out any possible freak malfunction in the computer. This may not be the case but I would want to know the family deserves at least this and I am sure that insurance and rescue crews will feel the same.

---

How do we know the boat had an E-TEC? I looked at the video and could not determine that it had an E-TEC. It had a white motor which could have been a Johnson, a Evinrude Ficht or an Evinrude E-TEC.

There is no computer driven mechanism in a DFI outboard that can overide the throttle input. Once you understand how the whole system works, you should see how an unlikely computer error is not the cause.

How does the DFI system work? The mechanical throttle linkage at the binacle control is connected to a cam on the motor via the cable. When the throttle is moved, the cable causes the cam to rotate about a pivot point. There is a thottle position sensor lever with a roller which follows the cam causing the TPS to rotate about another pivot point. The TPS lever is also connected to a throttle plate control rod. See images of a cam, TPS and the throttle plate control rod that is connected to the throttle plates in this thread ==> continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004995.html .

The rotation of the cam and TPS lever adjusts two things: 1) the opening of throttle plates and 2) the angle of the throttle position sensor (TPS). The TPS provides a voltage input to the computer which the computer interprets to determine how much fuel to inject and how to set the spark advance. The throttle plates in a modern motor regulate the amount of air flowing in. Basically, the TPS tells the computer what is going on with throttle input.

If the computer became unresponsive to the throttle position sensor or the TPS became unresponsive to the actual throttle position (let's call it getting "stuck")causing the computer to continue injecting fuel at the same higher rate even when the throttle was pulled back, the throttle plates would still close off the air flow, assuming the linkage between the binacle control and the cam was not broken. The lower air flow relative to high fuel flow would likely cause the motor to stall out. It certainly would not make more power.

I'm guessing that something failed with the steering system because long ago (before lanyards) I saw a very similar situation where a person was tossed out of a Whaler because the steering system broke and the boat was doing circles around the ejected driver. Fortunately, that person was able to grab hold of and yank the fuel line off the motor when the boat circled around causing the motor to run out of fuel not long after and come to a stop. This incident is a good reminder to go over the steering system and make sure that its in good working order and that the connecting nuts are fastened with the proper torque. And, of course, wear that lanyard and make sure it works!

posted 04-14-2011 09:58 AM ET (US)            

If the steering system failed, that is not Evinrude's problem; Evinrude does not manufacture steering systems, somebody else did.

I am surprise nobody has commented on the condition of the boat itself. It appears that the console grab rail has been torn loose as well as the Bimini, almost as if the boat went under something low and tore everything off.

If that were the case, it is entirely possible the throttle lever was caught by a Bimini strap and pulled to a WOT position. This could easily eject the occupants.

I watched this happen once to a Montauk at my local marina. Two guys came in from a morning of fishing and as they cleared the end of the breakwater and were idling to the ramp, they began to prepare the boat for loading onto the trailer.

This included lowering their canvas system and while doing this a strap caught the throttle lever and pulled it.

The boat instantly shot forward and turned hard to starboard propelling itself up onto the rock breakwater until almost the entire boat was out of the water with the bow pointed towards the sky. It happened in an instant.

posted 04-14-2011 11:10 AM ET (US)            

Here is her statement: First he was driving and we were approaching the bridge and he went to put it into slowdown neutral because we were getting into a slow zone. And the next thing I know, I woke up and I was trying to find the top of the water.”

We walk and climb up, down and around narrow decks on Tug, barges and sport boats without lanyards in all weather night and day, but, NEVER without a life jacket. NEVER.

-------------

Her statement implies a mechanical malfunction and the Seatow crew said the steering arm was not connected.
Classic 18 has obvious modifications. Steering arms almost always have cotter pins and/or stainless nylock nuts holding the elbow together at a certain torque.

Im here to tell you, stainless nuts will back off by themselves. And, nylock nuts are only good one time you tighten it up. As soon as you remove a nylock nut it loses its ability to lock...it is garbage.

Check your steering arms to make sure you have a new nylock or that it is double nutted TIGHT or cotter pins are in good shape or all 3. A single ss nut is a recipe for disaster.

posted 04-14-2011 11:15 AM ET (US)            

http://www.tcpalm.com/photos/galleries/2011/apr/11/ boat-accident-st-lucie-river/63772

http://www.tcpalm.com/photos/galleries/2011/apr/11/ boat-accident-st-lucie-river/63773

posted 04-14-2011 12:03 PM ET (US)            

Im not convinced the damage on the bow the photo's reveal was not caused by Seatow rescue. Ive been involved with a runaway boat cookie cutting and simply quartered the tug into the cookie..it bounced off without harming the Tug, lassoed the engine, (14 ft alum skiff was not wot). Skiff had some damage in same area as the Whaler does. Rescue boats are pretty good size, gunwales are higher than the whalers bow.

Looks like tending the Whaler until it ran out of gas was an option but...hate to second guess those guys. Sounds like Seatow and BoatUS did a great job, will be interesting to hear their story.

Just conjecture.
The steering arm nut was just hanging or already fallen out and WOT torque holding the elbow together until he backs off just a instant to neutralize the steering arm torque...steering arm drops out of the elbow socket, the engine IMMEDIATLY goes hard over and ejects passengers.
Nothing else makes sense to me but Im certainly not going to argue about it...lots of other possibilities.

posted 04-14-2011 12:51 PM ET (US)            

Obviously there is a gap in her memory like one might suffer if they hit their head and lost consciousness momentarily.

Yes, the damage might have happened when they got the run away boat under control...except that it is visible while the boat is still turning doughnuts.

Furthermore, the damage is in the bow as we might expect if the boat ran into something, and at a good speed.

posted 04-14-2011 01:03 PM ET (US)            

Unless this motor is a counter rotation model, propeller torque would cause the motor would slam to STARBOARD if the steering were suddenly disconnected.

posted 04-14-2011 01:26 PM ET (US)            

I look at my early and late season fishing alone down at Lake Powell and I almost never wear a vest or attach a lanyard.

Something like this or striking a submerged rock or a number of things could happen to any of us. Whalers dont' make us invincible.

I have ordered a new lanyard and a Mustang PDF inflatable and I am going to use them from now on.

posted 04-15-2011 08:52 AM ET (US)            

http://www.publichealthlaw.net/Reader/docs/MercuryMarine.pdf

posted 04-15-2011 10:49 AM ET (US)            

The technical cause of the accident is relevant to Whaler owners and boaters in general. Let's take what lessons we can from this tragedy.

If the operator has a hand on the throttle and the boat hit something, as I suspect it did, the operator's body would be thrown forward and this includes the arm holding the throttle. It does not take much imagination to see that the throttle would be "firewalled" in an instant.

The passenger's description of her last pre-accident memory is of holding the console and the operator's arm. Photos of the boat show there was no windscreen on the console nor the normal grab rail, though there were some custom made very low-profile grab bars on the top of the console.

If he boat were to hit something and suddenly decelerate and/or change course, there is damn little to keep both parties from going overboard. The gunwales are low, the gunwale grab bars are behind the helm position and neither one of them probably had a good grip on the boat.

I've very nearly had this happen to myself. Years ago, in my second Montauk I was cruising along with two passengers, all three of us standing at the console. The motor's gearcase snagged a large sponge or piece of foam rubber floating just below the surface and wrapped it self around the gearcase causing instantaneous and massive ventilation.

I made the mistake of removing my hand from the wheel to chop the throttle and in an instant the boat tuned to starboard and we were all thrown to port.

posted 04-15-2011 08:39 PM ET (US)            

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSxK9bhMNj8

posted 04-17-2011 12:50 PM ET (US)            

Im back to mechanical malfunction, possibly the steering arm let go. If you havent read my first ramble, I think the nut on the elbow dropped out, nothing else makes sense to me.

The damage shown on the bow does not convince me they collided with something...but, lets assume they did.

If it was another boat, where is the other boat?

If it was the bridge pier, where is a mark on the pier or a reference to it? Damage is slightly to stbd bow and the boat was circling to port. How could you hit a bridge pier on the stbd bow, eject and end up circling to port wot?

Push against a dock, bow first, idle.
Quickly turn hard to stbd if you have rh wheel, or port if you have lh wheel, sit back and watch. Your stern will come around and slap the shit out of the dock and try to pry itself away as you slide along scratching the stern quarter as you go. And if you start to clear the dock you will become very aware your engine is going to get real close to the dock...just before it clears. And now you will start to cut cookies hoping you will miss the dock next time around.

THat is a wide angle video and photo, no bridge in sight.
Two rescue boats trying to coral it right in the middle of the channel. IMO, the odds the whaler was damaged during rescue are pretty good. They lasso'd the boat, still, how do you get aboard and shut it down? Im betting one of the rescue boats has a dent about the same height as the whaler.

posted 04-20-2011 10:47 PM ET (US)            

I am almost certain the boat was driven into a piling, and at a good clip at that. The passenger was rescued and the rescuers said they found her clinging to "one of the pilings."

Broader photographs of the bridge show a line of sign-bearing pilings before it.

TowBoatUS captain Woody Woodruf, who helped with the rescue, said he thought the passenger had hit her head on the boat.

One news account had her initially unable to recollect the name of the boat's operator.

This video shows both the counter-rotating propeller and the steering arm of the motor, which does not appear to be connected to anything. Sea-Tow captain Ryan Pratt said the "steering arm was clearly broken" yet the video shows this is not the case. It is merely disconnected.

Pay close attention (in full screen) starting at at 1:13

http://www.cbs12.com/video/v/901583696001/wpec-localnews

posted 04-21-2011 02:06 AM ET (US)            

http://www.wpbf.com/video/27511820/detail.html

There is a bridge and a couple of blind pilings in the area. Also sounds like there is some current in the St Lucie river, along with a bit of wind the boat would slowly spiral downstream after a collision with a piling that ejected passengers and broke the steering arm.

Also appears the yellow ridgid Seatow was the primary rescue boat and wouldnt crack the whaler in the bow that bad.

Thing that gets me, I know you know wheels like I know pilings, pretty damn smart for a Married guy in Puget Sound to figure out that was a counter rotating engine so quickly.

I owe you a beer.

mike

posted 04-21-2011 05:09 PM ET (US)            

Dave was my best friend, and I knew Mike as well. I was working that day. Otherwise I would have been with him.

Dave's boat, which I acquired afterwards, was found hard to port. He/we had the older Teleflex steering before the NFB, and the boat would turn port when let go. We used a bungie to keep a steady course. Replaced steering immediately afterwards.

A very tragic story.

As for lassoing the boat. If you lay enough rope in its path, you would eventually wrap the prop and kill the motor.