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WT posted 05-21-2011 01:25 AM ET (US)
There are a bunch of us that fish for salmon off our Whalers. I got this link from a member here and thought it may be of interest to some of you.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/salmon-running-the-gauntlet/ video-full-episode/6620/
To keep it Whaler related, I think there are two Boston Whaler Alerts at 23:10 into the clip.
Warren
pcrussell50 posted 05-24-2011 04:06 AM ET (US)
That was a good watch, Warren. Thanks.
-Peter
lizard posted 05-24-2011 12:12 PM ET (US)
WT- great documentary, thanks for sharing.
I encourage anyone who enjoyed this film to read Paul Greenberg's "Four Fish", which goes into much greater detail about the flaws of fish farming, including poisonous PCB's from the holding tanks, gross pollution of waterways with fish farm run-off and finally farmed fish creating die-off in naturally spawned salmon. It takes 3 pounds of sea based feed to generate one pound of farmed salmon.
Four Fish covers salmon, tuna, cod and bass. A very good read. Ultimately, the common cod may be the only sustainable farmed fish.
elaelap posted 05-25-2011 09:19 AM ET (US)
Watched it last night on public television. Fine documentary. For a slightly more radical view regarding the removal of dams from Western rivers, read Edward Abbey's prescient novel, "The Monkey Wrench Gang."
Tony
frontier posted 05-25-2011 10:50 AM ET (US)
Read "Environmental Overkill - What Ever happened to Common Sense?" by Dixy Lee Ray.
Former governor of Washington State, Marine biologist (PHD Stanford), former chair of US Atomic Energy Commission.
lizard posted 05-25-2011 12:10 PM ET (US)
I think I pick up a copy of Environmental Overkill, just to find out if it is what it advertises itself to be: "A logical antidote to environmentalist demagogery".
towboater posted 05-25-2011 01:21 PM ET (US)
Im patiently waiting for a documentary on the effects INCIDENTAL CATCH AND OUTRIGHT PIRACY have on Salmon.
pcrussell50 posted 05-25-2011 03:45 PM ET (US)
Liz, it sounds like you are at least open to the possibility that not every "environmental issue" is exactly what it purports to be, once you dig beneath the veneer. Just like anything else, some are legit, some aren't. And some are probably partially legit. The man whose heart is pure on matters of the environment does well to know this, that he may expend his sweat and his treasue treasure in the name of the environment, wisely and effectively.
-Peter
elaelap posted 05-25-2011 05:09 PM ET (US)
You don't have to waste your money on that nonsense, Liz. Check out Dixy's whorish relationship with the multi-nationals via the net, and don't miss the online blog of her loco ghost writer and electoral advisor, Lou Guzzo. He's still goin' strong in the PNW, sorta an even-lower-browed-if-possible Redwood Rush Limbaugh. He and Dixy never met an environmental cause they didn't call Commie. As for the charming Dixy...she's in the process of being recycled...no great loss to the rational amongst us.
Tony
pcrussell50 posted 05-25-2011 05:13 PM ET (US)
For the record, lest it appear otherwise, I have not read Dixy's book, and frankly, had never even heard of her until today. The rest of my statements about caveat emptor when it comes to your environmental efforts still stands.
-Peter
elaelap posted 05-25-2011 05:19 PM ET (US)
Simple words of wisdom, Peter. Caveat emptor and check your sources! No one at this website, I'm sure, would want to be intellectually identified with Lou Guzzo. Oh, maybe one or two...
Tony
JMARTIN posted 05-25-2011 05:44 PM ET (US)
"Redwood Rush Limbaugh", like the tree?
John
frontier posted 05-25-2011 09:23 PM ET (US)
When Dixy Lee Ray's book "Environmental Overkill" came out, it pulled the 'Wizard of OZ' curtain away and exposed the fraud, half truths and agenda of the radical environmentalists.
Not only was she a Governor, Marine Biologist and scientist, she was a pioneer in finding the truth and the facts about this subject.
Americans found out the radicals were not interested in engaging in the arena of ideas and facts. So the personal attacks and insults followed.
A pattern that continues to this day.
pcrussell50 posted 05-25-2011 10:13 PM ET (US)
It's certainly very true that with the advent of entities that have unilateral ability to make law outside of legislative due-process, those entities are VERY appealing places to infiltrate, for people with ulterior motives that would never survive due process in a democracy. Examples of such places are amongst others are, the EPA, and the CARB. The power to make laws, without accountability or due process. Further, both are so huge, it's preposterous to claim they have not been infiltrated by folk with ulterior motives, whose intent is not pure as relates to the environment. The question is, how deeply have they been penetrated? The answer, at least in part is, very deeply. All the way up to, and including the enactment of law whose benefit to the environment is slim to none, and whose damage to the poor and middle classes is significant.
Examples abound of course. Some have been talked about here on CWW.
Note Tony, that I have still not given my specific validation of Dixy. I still know no more about her than I did, four hours ago. :)
-Peter
pcrussell50 posted 05-25-2011 10:43 PM ET (US)
Ok, I just looked at the top of Dixy Lee Ray's wikipedia entry. One of the first things I felt I should look for in discrediting her would be her credentials as "marine biologist". But...? No. That one passes muster. In a BIG way:

quote:
She attended Tacoma's Stadium High School, graduated as valedictorian from Mills College in Oakland, California in 1937, and with a master's degree in 1938 with her thesis entitled "A Comparative Study of the Life Habits of Some Species of Burrowing Eumalacostraca". She earned her PhD from Stanford University in Palo Alto. Her doctoral dissertation was "The peripheral nervous system of Lampanyctus leucopsarus," completed in 1945 at the Hopkins Marine Station, Pacific Grove, California.
Take a look at what her theses were in, for both her master's and her PhD. Pretty serious academic cred, I'd have to say.
Further, I have yet to meet a marine biologist who did not have a deep and profound love of the sea. Especially one who follows all the way through to a Doctorate in the field. And given my geographical circumstances, (San Diego and Santa Barbara), I have met more than my share of them.
A further observation is that the places she studied are not known to be bastions of conservatism, for whatever that is worth.
So far, having done nothing more than a couple of minutes of research on a left-leaning research outlet, (Wikipedia), she has sailed right on through the first-stage filter of my BS'o'meter.
gnr posted 05-26-2011 09:48 AM ET (US)

quote:
As for the charming Dixy...she's in the process of being recycled...no great loss to the rational amongst us.
Wow! Just Wow!
What a piece of work you are.

Might's well round up all of them that don't think like you and recycle them, eh?
pcrussell50 posted 05-26-2011 02:13 PM ET (US)
gnr, let's not be hasty...
Of course, in societies where left-wing ideology reigns unchecked, with no viable countervailing opposition, they have learned that even their gulags and secret police are not enough to suppress diversity of thought. People with, ahem, "bothersome" beliefs and the charisma to spread them, are still dangerous as long as they are not "recycled", even in the gulag.
As for Tony's comment, when people are wordsmiths by vocation, it often spreads to their avocation. I suspect he was just trying, (maybe a little too hard), to be prosaic. I wouldn't read too much into it.
-Peter

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Author	Topic: Salmon documentary
WT	posted 05-21-2011 01:25 AM ET (US) There are a bunch of us that fish for salmon off our Whalers. I got this link from a member here and thought it may be of interest to some of you. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/salmon-running-the-gauntlet/ video-full-episode/6620/ To keep it Whaler related, I think there are two Boston Whaler Alerts at 23:10 into the clip. Warren
pcrussell50	posted 05-24-2011 04:06 AM ET (US) That was a good watch, Warren. Thanks. -Peter
lizard	posted 05-24-2011 12:12 PM ET (US) WT- great documentary, thanks for sharing. I encourage anyone who enjoyed this film to read Paul Greenberg's "Four Fish", which goes into much greater detail about the flaws of fish farming, including poisonous PCB's from the holding tanks, gross pollution of waterways with fish farm run-off and finally farmed fish creating die-off in naturally spawned salmon. It takes 3 pounds of sea based feed to generate one pound of farmed salmon. Four Fish covers salmon, tuna, cod and bass. A very good read. Ultimately, the common cod may be the only sustainable farmed fish.
elaelap	posted 05-25-2011 09:19 AM ET (US) Watched it last night on public television. Fine documentary. For a slightly more radical view regarding the removal of dams from Western rivers, read Edward Abbey's prescient novel, "The Monkey Wrench Gang." Tony
frontier	posted 05-25-2011 10:50 AM ET (US) Read "Environmental Overkill - What Ever happened to Common Sense?" by Dixy Lee Ray. Former governor of Washington State, Marine biologist (PHD Stanford), former chair of US Atomic Energy Commission.
lizard	posted 05-25-2011 12:10 PM ET (US) I think I pick up a copy of Environmental Overkill, just to find out if it is what it advertises itself to be: "A logical antidote to environmentalist demagogery".
towboater	posted 05-25-2011 01:21 PM ET (US) Im patiently waiting for a documentary on the effects INCIDENTAL CATCH AND OUTRIGHT PIRACY have on Salmon.
pcrussell50	posted 05-25-2011 03:45 PM ET (US) Liz, it sounds like you are at least open to the possibility that not every "environmental issue" is exactly what it purports to be, once you dig beneath the veneer. Just like anything else, some are legit, some aren't. And some are probably partially legit. The man whose heart is pure on matters of the environment does well to know this, that he may expend his sweat and his treasue treasure in the name of the environment, wisely and effectively. -Peter
elaelap	posted 05-25-2011 05:09 PM ET (US) You don't have to waste your money on that nonsense, Liz. Check out Dixy's whorish relationship with the multi-nationals via the net, and don't miss the online blog of her loco ghost writer and electoral advisor, Lou Guzzo. He's still goin' strong in the PNW, sorta an even-lower-browed-if-possible Redwood Rush Limbaugh. He and Dixy never met an environmental cause they didn't call Commie. As for the charming Dixy...she's in the process of being recycled...no great loss to the rational amongst us. Tony
pcrussell50	posted 05-25-2011 05:13 PM ET (US) For the record, lest it appear otherwise, I have not read Dixy's book, and frankly, had never even heard of her until today. The rest of my statements about caveat emptor when it comes to your environmental efforts still stands. -Peter
elaelap	posted 05-25-2011 05:19 PM ET (US) Simple words of wisdom, Peter. Caveat emptor and check your sources! No one at this website, I'm sure, would want to be intellectually identified with Lou Guzzo. Oh, maybe one or two... Tony
JMARTIN	posted 05-25-2011 05:44 PM ET (US) "Redwood Rush Limbaugh", like the tree? John
frontier	posted 05-25-2011 09:23 PM ET (US) When Dixy Lee Ray's book "Environmental Overkill" came out, it pulled the 'Wizard of OZ' curtain away and exposed the fraud, half truths and agenda of the radical environmentalists. Not only was she a Governor, Marine Biologist and scientist, she was a pioneer in finding the truth and the facts about this subject. Americans found out the radicals were not interested in engaging in the arena of ideas and facts. So the personal attacks and insults followed. A pattern that continues to this day.
pcrussell50	posted 05-25-2011 10:13 PM ET (US) It's certainly very true that with the advent of entities that have unilateral ability to make law outside of legislative due-process, those entities are VERY appealing places to infiltrate, for people with ulterior motives that would never survive due process in a democracy. Examples of such places are amongst others are, the EPA, and the CARB. The power to make laws, without accountability or due process. Further, both are so huge, it's preposterous to claim they have not been infiltrated by folk with ulterior motives, whose intent is not pure as relates to the environment. The question is, how deeply have they been penetrated? The answer, at least in part is, very deeply. All the way up to, and including the enactment of law whose benefit to the environment is slim to none, and whose damage to the poor and middle classes is significant. Examples abound of course. Some have been talked about here on CWW. Note Tony, that I have still not given my specific validation of Dixy. I still know no more about her than I did, four hours ago. :) -Peter
pcrussell50	posted 05-25-2011 10:43 PM ET (US) Ok, I just looked at the top of Dixy Lee Ray's wikipedia entry. One of the first things I felt I should look for in discrediting her would be her credentials as "marine biologist". But...? No. That one passes muster. In a BIG way: quote: She attended Tacoma's Stadium High School, graduated as valedictorian from Mills College in Oakland, California in 1937, and with a master's degree in 1938 with her thesis entitled "A Comparative Study of the Life Habits of Some Species of Burrowing Eumalacostraca". She earned her PhD from Stanford University in Palo Alto. Her doctoral dissertation was "The peripheral nervous system of Lampanyctus leucopsarus," completed in 1945 at the Hopkins Marine Station, Pacific Grove, California. Take a look at what her theses were in, for both her master's and her PhD. Pretty serious academic cred, I'd have to say. Further, I have yet to meet a marine biologist who did not have a deep and profound love of the sea. Especially one who follows all the way through to a Doctorate in the field. And given my geographical circumstances, (San Diego and Santa Barbara), I have met more than my share of them. A further observation is that the places she studied are not known to be bastions of conservatism, for whatever that is worth. So far, having done nothing more than a couple of minutes of research on a left-leaning research outlet, (Wikipedia), she has sailed right on through the first-stage filter of my BS'o'meter.
gnr	posted 05-26-2011 09:48 AM ET (US) quote: As for the charming Dixy...she's in the process of being recycled...no great loss to the rational amongst us. Wow! Just Wow! What a piece of work you are. Might's well round up all of them that don't think like you and recycle them, eh?
pcrussell50	posted 05-26-2011 02:13 PM ET (US) gnr, let's not be hasty... Of course, in societies where left-wing ideology reigns unchecked, with no viable countervailing opposition, they have learned that even their gulags and secret police are not enough to suppress diversity of thought. People with, ahem, "bothersome" beliefs and the charisma to spread them, are still dangerous as long as they are not "recycled", even in the gulag. As for Tony's comment, when people are wordsmiths by vocation, it often spreads to their avocation. I suspect he was just trying, (maybe a little too hard), to be prosaic. I wouldn't read too much into it. -Peter