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Author Topic:   Calling all Alabama boat owners!!!

Tohsgib posted 08-11-2011 10:52 AM ET (US)
Looks like I am going to Orange Beach to buy a 22' Donzi. I hear they have NO titles for boats or trailers? in AL. What do I need to get from the seller and how can I prove this does not have a lien against it. Does something show on the registration(s)?
Mike Brantley posted 08-11-2011 12:38 PM ET (US)
In Alabama, the boats are registered but not titled as you've learned and -- at least for the recreational boat trailers -- the trailers are not even registered.
I'd get a bill of sale with the HIN and Alabama registraion noted on it, as well as a copy of the Alabama registration. Probably all you need. Not sure how to prove no liens against the boat.
skinnywater posted 08-11-2011 01:38 PM ET (US)
Curiosity question - if the untitled boat did have an undisclosed lien wouldn't that still be the seller's obligation to satisfy regardless and not the unsuspecting buyer's? Just wondering how that would impact the buyer - would it be caught when attempting to re-register or title the boat even in another State - and could the lien holder come after the new purchaser for the repossession of "their" item (or satisfaction of the lien)? Just curios as to how the legalities of that would/could play out - does the duped purchaser get left holding the bag for taking possession of the boat-?
Also - is it possible to put a lien on something physical that does not have a title or deed? I can see if the lien was against a business/corp or individual owner for their assets or something - but not maybe the specific non-titled/deeded assets themselves?
Don't mean to derail your thread - just got me wondering.
Stevebaz posted 08-11-2011 01:51 PM ET (US)
If you have AAA in Florida that may be a good place to get answers. Here in California thats who I go through to get stuff like this registered. You could also check AAA in Alabama. Tripple A is much easier to deal with than the DMV in California. In your state things may be different. I have done many transactions right at the Auto Club just meet the seller there. Depending on where you live this may or may not be possible.
Tohsgib posted 08-11-2011 02:23 PM ET (US)
I can't see how you can put a lien against something without a title. In Fl you need to go through a bunch of hoops to put a lien against the boat and the owner is notified(say you did not pay your repair bill). This would show up on the title. If the seller still owes BOA for the financing I think BOA would still go after him, not me. Lastly I doubt he has a loan on this boat, nobody would finance a 1994 boat in 2008 when he bought it. The guys seems straight up and he knows I carry a gun.
Sebash4 posted 08-11-2011 04:54 PM ET (US)
Hey Nick, I Googled your question and this is what I found....Not sure if it helps.
Lee
Ask to see the paperwork where they purchased the boat and a copy of the insurance policy. Both should list the lienholder if there is one. If they don't have that or won't let you see it I would be a little concerned.
outragesteve posted 08-11-2011 10:33 PM ET (US)
Hi Nick: What a great looking Donzi. A few years go, there was a black w/white stripe for sale here in Hawaii. 454 Magnum (365 HP) w/ Bravo III. Great boat: I was tempted to buy it. From your pics, it looks like you have a Bravo I: That's good. (OMC/Cobra, bad) Boats over here are only registered, not titled. When you register, you are "supposed" to list any lien holder(s). You can state "none" and probably it will not be caught. If, however, the bank/lien holder was smart, they would make sure the Boating Division is informed they have a registred lien on the boat. Good luck and have fun. I love my 22' Outrage, but my back would prefer a 22' Donzi!
Tohsgib posted 08-12-2011 07:15 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the replies....heading out at 10.
rcbrownjr posted 08-18-2011 08:57 AM ET (US)
Just saw from your other post that you made the trip. Congratulations on the new Donzi.
I wrote this around the time you left, but it didn't post for some reason. Hope this is still helpful and have fun out on the water.
You should get a bill of sale between you and the Seller signed by the Seller and a copy of his current registration. That will give you the HIN and other pertinent information that is on file with the State of Alabama. The Bill of Sale and Registration serve as proofof ownership in Alabama. If you are registering the boat in Alabama, that will be all you need to register the boat in your name. I would assume that this would work in Florida if that is where you are registering the boat. You certainly wouldn't have the first boat from Alabama sold to someone from Florida.
The best way to determine if there is a lien on the boat is to perform a UCC (lien) search with the Secretary of State. Anyone who wants to perfect a security interest in an asset will file a UCC, a public document that contains the amount of the lien, a general description of the asset and, in the case of equipment, typically serial numbers.
Here is the Alabama Secretary of State's UCC search website:
http://arc-sos.state.al.us/cgi/uccname.mbr/input
Here is the Baldwin County Probate Judge's website for a secondary search:
http://www.co.baldwin.al.us/Pageview.asp?edit_id=925
http://www.deltacomputersystems.com/al/al05/drlinkquerya.html
Best case is that the Seller's name and the boat do not show up in a search. If a record does appear, look for a second UCC releasing the lien. These are filed as soon as the obligation is satisfied.
The lien travels with the asset and does not reside with the previous owner. A good Bill of Sale includes a covenant, a statement proclaiming that there are no liens against the boat. It would then be the Seller's responsibility to get the lien released; however, someone could still come after the boat until the lien is released. You would have a claim against the previous owner, but then you have to chase them.
Hope that everything comes back clean and you can put your mind at ease.
contender posted 08-18-2011 09:35 AM ET (US)
Tohsgib: Pictures of the new toy?...I know its not a whaler but I have been thinking the same thing to fine a baby donzi for fun, email me Thanks
Tohsgib posted 08-18-2011 09:53 AM ET (US)
I posted a few pics on my other post "I might be sliding sideways for a while."
Jefecinco posted 08-18-2011 02:27 PM ET (US)
Darn,
I was there at the condo. If I'd known you were coming I would have at least bought you lunch. Got home today.
Butch

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Author	Topic: Calling all Alabama boat owners!!!
Tohsgib	posted 08-11-2011 10:52 AM ET (US) Looks like I am going to Orange Beach to buy a 22' Donzi. I hear they have NO titles for boats or trailers? in AL. What do I need to get from the seller and how can I prove this does not have a lien against it. Does something show on the registration(s)?
Mike Brantley	posted 08-11-2011 12:38 PM ET (US) In Alabama, the boats are registered but not titled as you've learned and -- at least for the recreational boat trailers -- the trailers are not even registered. I'd get a bill of sale with the HIN and Alabama registraion noted on it, as well as a copy of the Alabama registration. Probably all you need. Not sure how to prove no liens against the boat.
skinnywater	posted 08-11-2011 01:38 PM ET (US) Curiosity question - if the untitled boat did have an undisclosed lien wouldn't that still be the seller's obligation to satisfy regardless and not the unsuspecting buyer's? Just wondering how that would impact the buyer - would it be caught when attempting to re-register or title the boat even in another State - and could the lien holder come after the new purchaser for the repossession of "their" item (or satisfaction of the lien)? Just curios as to how the legalities of that would/could play out - does the duped purchaser get left holding the bag for taking possession of the boat-? Also - is it possible to put a lien on something physical that does not have a title or deed? I can see if the lien was against a business/corp or individual owner for their assets or something - but not maybe the specific non-titled/deeded assets themselves? Don't mean to derail your thread - just got me wondering.
Stevebaz	posted 08-11-2011 01:51 PM ET (US) If you have AAA in Florida that may be a good place to get answers. Here in California thats who I go through to get stuff like this registered. You could also check AAA in Alabama. Tripple A is much easier to deal with than the DMV in California. In your state things may be different. I have done many transactions right at the Auto Club just meet the seller there. Depending on where you live this may or may not be possible.
Tohsgib	posted 08-11-2011 02:23 PM ET (US) I can't see how you can put a lien against something without a title. In Fl you need to go through a bunch of hoops to put a lien against the boat and the owner is notified(say you did not pay your repair bill). This would show up on the title. If the seller still owes BOA for the financing I think BOA would still go after him, not me. Lastly I doubt he has a loan on this boat, nobody would finance a 1994 boat in 2008 when he bought it. The guys seems straight up and he knows I carry a gun.
Sebash4	posted 08-11-2011 04:54 PM ET (US) Hey Nick, I Googled your question and this is what I found....Not sure if it helps. Lee Ask to see the paperwork where they purchased the boat and a copy of the insurance policy. Both should list the lienholder if there is one. If they don't have that or won't let you see it I would be a little concerned.
outragesteve	posted 08-11-2011 10:33 PM ET (US) Hi Nick: What a great looking Donzi. A few years go, there was a black w/white stripe for sale here in Hawaii. 454 Magnum (365 HP) w/ Bravo III. Great boat: I was tempted to buy it. From your pics, it looks like you have a Bravo I: That's good. (OMC/Cobra, bad) Boats over here are only registered, not titled. When you register, you are "supposed" to list any lien holder(s). You can state "none" and probably it will not be caught. If, however, the bank/lien holder was smart, they would make sure the Boating Division is informed they have a registred lien on the boat. Good luck and have fun. I love my 22' Outrage, but my back would prefer a 22' Donzi!
Tohsgib	posted 08-12-2011 07:15 AM ET (US) Thanks for the replies....heading out at 10.
rcbrownjr	posted 08-18-2011 08:57 AM ET (US) Just saw from your other post that you made the trip. Congratulations on the new Donzi. I wrote this around the time you left, but it didn't post for some reason. Hope this is still helpful and have fun out on the water. You should get a bill of sale between you and the Seller signed by the Seller and a copy of his current registration. That will give you the HIN and other pertinent information that is on file with the State of Alabama. The Bill of Sale and Registration serve as proofof ownership in Alabama. If you are registering the boat in Alabama, that will be all you need to register the boat in your name. I would assume that this would work in Florida if that is where you are registering the boat. You certainly wouldn't have the first boat from Alabama sold to someone from Florida. The best way to determine if there is a lien on the boat is to perform a UCC (lien) search with the Secretary of State. Anyone who wants to perfect a security interest in an asset will file a UCC, a public document that contains the amount of the lien, a general description of the asset and, in the case of equipment, typically serial numbers. Here is the Alabama Secretary of State's UCC search website: http://arc-sos.state.al.us/cgi/uccname.mbr/input Here is the Baldwin County Probate Judge's website for a secondary search: http://www.co.baldwin.al.us/Pageview.asp?edit_id=925 http://www.deltacomputersystems.com/al/al05/drlinkquerya.html Best case is that the Seller's name and the boat do not show up in a search. If a record does appear, look for a second UCC releasing the lien. These are filed as soon as the obligation is satisfied. The lien travels with the asset and does not reside with the previous owner. A good Bill of Sale includes a covenant, a statement proclaiming that there are no liens against the boat. It would then be the Seller's responsibility to get the lien released; however, someone could still come after the boat until the lien is released. You would have a claim against the previous owner, but then you have to chase them. Hope that everything comes back clean and you can put your mind at ease.
contender	posted 08-18-2011 09:35 AM ET (US) Tohsgib: Pictures of the new toy?...I know its not a whaler but I have been thinking the same thing to fine a baby donzi for fun, email me Thanks
Tohsgib	posted 08-18-2011 09:53 AM ET (US) I posted a few pics on my other post "I might be sliding sideways for a while."
Jefecinco	posted 08-18-2011 02:27 PM ET (US) Darn, I was there at the condo. If I'd known you were coming I would have at least bought you lunch. Got home today. Butch