posted 06-07-2012 05:48 PM ET (US)        

I wrote a letter to Yamaha to question this [representation of the warranty policy of Yamaha on wear parts]. Matt from Yamaha called me and stated the Yamaha policy is to advise owners to pull the lower unit and inspect or replace the water pump yearly. I never has this problem with our using Evinrude or Johnson motors since 1970. I told [Matt, the Yamaha representative] I had just bought another new Yamaha for one of the other boats, and, when I received the title, it stated the motor had been manufactured two years prior and yet to be in the water. Matt then stated I should pull the lower unit and probably should replace the water pump due to the age of motor. I again stated motor was new in box at time of purchase. He stated that Yamaha would not replace the pump as it was the dealer's responsibility--the dealer refused to do as they stated Yamaha never had a problem with water pumps. What a deal.

posted 06-09-2012 12:09 PM ET (US)            

I don't know what the official policy for replacement of a wear part like a water pump impeller was back in 1992, but it was clear that you could expect many years of service from them. The boat I mention was used in fresh water on a seasonal basis in the Northern USA, and it often sat for six months in the winter in storage. It may well be that the policy of Yamaha was always that a wear part like a water pump impeller was an annual maintenance item.

posted 06-10-2012 11:42 AM ET (US)            

I think they should have taken care of it for you its a minor part in cost compared to a tilt trim or replace lower unit repairs. I might go one step ahead and speak to a head Yamaha rep but it depends on how patient you are because it still may end up with nothing to show other than to let them know you will not be coming back. Sometimes thats all it takes.

Martyn

posted 06-12-2012 01:09 AM ET (US)            

So.. because the dealer gave you some sound advice and told you not to operate an outboard engine without first checking the condition of your water pump? Ok.

Matt from Yamaha sounds like a low paid customer service call back representative. Give his supervisor a call about the motor in the box... I believe you have a valid grievance for a new impeller - IF IT NEEDS IT. Remember, Matt just told you to unbolt it and check it, which I repeat is always good advice. Your dealer didn't want to change it because he probably has sold hundreds of the motors out of the box (over a year sitting in the box) with zero problems. Your whaler on the other hand was sitting in your possession and the dealer policy is to change it out - probably to avoid burning up motors and getting warranty claims. If you knew how to check your impeller and run it in the water as conch suggested, you may have learned it was perfectly fine - Or not.

I have a 2002 Yamaha 50 horse four stroke. I keep an extra impeller in my boat box, and I replace the part regularly. You appear to be stuck with 2 Yamahas - learn to deal with the impellers. Keep a couple of them in your boat box along with spark plugs, oil filters.

Many folks love their Johnson's ... and their Evinrudes, but Yamaha also has a fine reputation for well running motors. Talk to some owners at your local boating locations or on boating forums like this one and others. I think you will find Yamaha to be a solid product.

Good luck to you.

posted 06-12-2012 09:48 AM ET (US)            

GUSGUS says: "I agree with the [acronym for original poster, i.e. RENTER]."

posted 06-13-2012 10:31 AM ET (US)            

1. My first, a T50 ('High Thrust') carburetted four stroke on my first Whaler, a 16'7" Katama -- something like 700 flawless hours in a couple of years without changing the impeller. That boat/motor is now owned by my pal Steve/17 Bodega, and he has more than doubled the hours, without a problem. 90+% of the time on that motor was/is in salt water, BTW.

2. My second, an F115 EFI four stroke on 'Cetaceous', my beloved 1988 Outrage 18 (still my all time favorite Boston Whaler/motor combination for my uses) -- 760 flawless hours in just over two years, with one impeller change as part of preventative care...turned out to be unneeded; the impeller was in perfect shape.

3. My third, an F60 on a Sport 15 center console. What fun that little skiff was! Topped out at 43 mph and got around 12 mph at a comfortable 30 mph cruising speed. The rig wasn't too good for our lumpy near shore coastal waters, but great on the SF Bay, lakes & rivers. I think the motor had around 350 hours when I sold the boat; no problems whatsoever.

Again, maybe this anecdotal 'evidence' only 'proves' that I was lucky with three particularly well-made Yamaha motors, but take it for what it's worth. I'd buy another one in half an instant, and my experience seems to mirror that of most Yamaha four stroke owners I've talked with or read comments from online.

posted 06-13-2012 11:44 AM ET (US)            

However, one question, if you don't mind:

What if - when one day in the near future, you make the choise buy a new or very low hours Yamaha outboard from a dealer near where you live - they tell you that oh, by the way, on this one you'll need to have a new impeller installed for each year/season, no matter the type of use or the hours.

Would you feel like that's the Yamaha outboards you know?

posted 06-13-2012 12:47 PM ET (US)            

I think the speculation is getting out of hand here. Let's not forget that the dealer RECOMMENDS you CHECK your impeller annually! If you are a prudent owner of a boat and care about safety, this is a no brainer!

I work at an ocean access boat ramp... have for about 10 years. Guess what most tow-ins for boaters is?? Yes sir. Water pumps that fail!

This is basic boating 101 folks, Johnson, Evinrude, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc!

posted 06-13-2012 01:00 PM ET (US)            

When a marine engine takes in water from the outside environment, you can get mud, silt, debris, and other particulate matter in your cooling system. That is why we flush our engines after use.

It's just like checking the air in your tires, checking the oil, and tune ups. When you buy a boat and engine you assume some adult responsibility to know some basic maintenance, or you have no business taking people out to sea.

posted 06-13-2012 01:22 PM ET (US)            

Now I boat in relatively clean water, and like many of us out here I religiously flush my motor after every salt water use, but tell the truth...I don't even bother to check my impeller every year, let alone change it out. No problems so far, thank Poseidon ;-)

One other little anecdote, this time about our partnership Suzuki DF140. This motor has powered a series of "Strike3" banana-hulled Revenges, all of which have spent their sweet lives in a salt water slip nine months per year. After the first two hundred hours or so, we (for the first and last time) had a dealership wrench check out the motor...do a mis-named "tune-up" including an impeller change. The impeller was in perfect shape. Since that time (we now have something like 1200 hours on that motor) we've done all the maintenance ourselves (thanks to Matt/placerville's expertise). Last year, at about one thousand hours, we decided to replace the water pump as part of preventative maintenance. The impeller seemed to be good as new. Go figure.

I'm convinced that the very best thing for modern outboard motors, especially four strokes, is lots of use, frequent oil changes at factory intervals (~100 hours top end, 200 hours bottom), and flush, flush, flush after every use in salt water or muddy fresh water conditions). So far so good.

posted 06-14-2012 03:57 AM ET (US)            

Having to check you impeller once a year if you boat in salt water, don’t do the freshwater flushing and have other factors that together form a challenging mode of operation for the water pump, then fine, do check it or have someone check it for you. Good to keep the safety aspect in mind.

However, to say this (removing the lower unit to check or replace the impeller of the water pump) is basic boating 101 while letting the reader understand that this should be true no matter the hours of use or the kind of use is being considered, that’s just not a point of view I’m prepared to support.

I’ve been trying to teach my wife and kids what I consider to be “basic boating 101”. Looking at both the safety and the maintenance aspects of the type of boating we do (and most other people we know who also have boats), the impeller of the water pump is currently not on the agenda, and I very much hope I stays that way.

I do agree that if it is your business to provide the service of taking people out to sea, then it is best to do more proactive maintenance than what should be required for normal recreational boating.

Talking stern drives, I have little personal experience. From what I know, a lot of the stern drive units only have direct sea water cooling and use the water pump of the OEM motor to circulate the cooling water. (This would be a choice made to keep the price low.)
If this is the solution, I’m not at all surprised if the failure rate in ocean salt water is high.
Anyhow, we were referring to outboards here.

When you buy a boat and engine you should use you best judgment to evaluate what should be considered basic maintenance (which you will later be responsible for), and challenge the sales organization to offer you products that meet your expectations, or you have little reason to later feel sorry for the time and money you need to spend to support your boating hobby.

I’m sure that people who see maintenance work as a positive part of their hobby don’t mind if there’s a few extra things on the task list. I, however, would rather spend more time actually boating. To each is own, etc.

...

Tony, thanks for the reply, I very much agree with your views on the benefits of high usage and flushing with fresh water.

posted 06-14-2012 11:37 AM ET (US)            

If [yearly failure of the water pump is likely] is on these Yamahas--which I'm not quite convinced it is--it would be one of the few knocks on a very solid engine. Every engine on the planet has something, whether it is a premature tilt-trim malfunction or over-sensitive sensor. Perhaps maybe a case is to be made for the Yamaha--they're not bulletproof.

This is interesting and important information that when making a purchase is something to look into at the very least. Very important to take average rather than just one or two cases which this may be.

posted 06-14-2012 09:50 PM ET (US)            

I make the assumption here that we on CW are hardcore boating enthusiasts and have more savvy than the average weekend warrior. We have inquiring minds, we are renaissance men and women who are not satisfied with peripheral knowledge on this subject of boating.

Boating 101 was perhaps too casual a term, describing how to lower your boat from a trailer, basic navigation, safety, and an acceptable level of intuition.

Boating 101 for us, or at least for me in the Pacific Ocean in Northern California raises the bar of boating 101, as does many locations that members here frequent, all with their own dangers. A disabled motor in even docile ocean conditions can be a potentially life-threatening situation. I will say that my YAMAHA outboard built in 2002 went 5 or more years without an impeller change under heavy use. In retrospect that was irresponsible of me.. and in time my powerful vigorous telltale stream became a feeble dribble...(sadly)

Now...my 50 horse is a one person job and a couple of bolts to drop the lower unit and get to the entire water pump assembly. Bigger outboards are more involved and may need a jack or more tools.

Anyway, as a guy who uses his boat constantly and in the ocean, with my particular motor I advise everyone to be hyper diligent about their motors.

Steve

posted 07-09-2012 01:46 AM ET (US)            

My buddy put over 7000 hours on his Yamaha 70 two stroke engine! Years and years of use many miles offshore in the Pacific...

posted 07-09-2012 09:33 AM ET (US)            

I expressed my complete agreement with mister RENTER's objection to having to make a repair to a new engine because it had been sitting on the shelf for a few years prior to being sold. I don't know how you can construe that as "an attack."

As for the basic premise of mister RENTER, that Yamaha outboard engines are inferior based on his experience with Yamaha's refusal to replace a wear part, I do disagree. A wear part is not covered under the same warranty as other components, and in this case the recommended maintenance interval for the wear part was exceeded. It seems to me that RENTER is asking Yamaha for two substantive changes in their policies:

First, RENTER wants Yamaha to offer coverage of wear parts in their warranty. Next, RENTER wants the period of coverage to be lengthened in order that the wear part he needs to replace will be included. Since Yamaha apparently has declined to comply with RENTER, RENTER now wants to condemn all Yamaha outboards as being inferior and to be avoided.

Neither you or RENTER should consider my extreme reluctance to adopt this position or to endorse this logic as being a personal attack. You should not infer that just because I do not agree with you that I am therefore launching a personal attack. You and RENTER are free to conclude whatever you like regarding Yamaha outboard engines based on the narrative given by RENTER. All other readers, including me, are similarly free to decline to agree or to withhold our endorsement of you position.

posted 07-10-2012 03:27 AM ET (US)            

My money is my vote and as silly as it may sound, I will avoid Yamaha, no matter how good they are. They could be the best, but it is MY MONEY! It is MY BOAT, and it is my vote. It is not an incorrect question to ask any manufacturer to correct a stupid policy, which Yamaha has seemingly refused.

Lastly, the dolt that suggested I am somehow deficient because i use craigslist, made a personal attack about facts stated, how is grouping Renter and I as one, not jumping on the slam those anti yamaha guys, Jim? Jim that was an attack because of the rest of the thread.

It was bad form and frankly crappy treatment because of a real issue that some could maybe grow a thicker skin and try to help the situation? Rather than become ford and chevy styled haters.

posted 07-10-2012 08:57 AM ET (US)            

For some customers, in some situations, with some dealers, all that will be provided is the support under the terms and conditions of the written warranty. For other customers, in other situations, with other dealers, there may be more support provided.

Many factor influence these results. If the customer is a valued customer, perhaps one that has a long relationship with the dealer, and if the customer bought the engine from the dealer, the dealer may be inclined to go beyond the terms and condition of the written warranty. If the dealer is a strong dealer for the outboard engine manufacturer, with a long history with that brand, and if the dealer has a well-trained and expert maintenance and service department, and if the dealer is a high ranking dealer in the manufacturer's service rankings, then perhaps the manufacturer will give that dealer more discretion regarding coverage of repairs under the extended warranty.

I am confident that there have been a few water pump impellers replaced at no charge for a few customers by a few dealers for a few manufacturers. But the notion that one customer went to one dealer with one problem and did not get support that exceed the terms and conditions of the manufacturer's warranty does not compel me to condemn that manufacturer as being sub-standard in their customer support.

posted 07-10-2012 09:18 AM ET (US)            

With only one side of this saga on which to base any discussion, this one seems like a slow news day headline. "Mayor Clips Toe Nails."

We know nothing about the contract, written and verbal.
Or any discussions at the time.
Or attitude of either party.
Or as usual, the intent of either.

Craigs list says thar 68 percent of Internet forum space is taken by strings like this.

A friend also reminded that 55 percent of quoted statistics are made up on the spot.

posted 07-10-2012 09:48 AM ET (US)            

Steve