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Author Topic:   USCG Auxiliary
jimh posted 07-15-2012 11:39 PM ET (US)   Profile for jimh   Send Email to jimh  
A tip of the hat to the Wisconsin USCG Auxiliary. There was a volunteer from the USCG Auxiliary at the marina at Little Sand Bay last weekend, and he gave me a courtesy safety inspection. I got my 2012 decal. It is known to tend to stop random boardings by the Coast Guard.

After the inspection, we were chatting. The Auxiliarist suddenly said, "Excuse me," and stepped away. I looked up to see a 15-foot open aluminum boat with about seven or eight people aboard departing from the dock. In the bow a young woman was sitting holding an infant, there were several youngsters under 12-years-old aboard, and a few more adults. I don't think anyone was wearing a PFD.

The USCG Auxiliary volunteer moved over to the end of the dock and hailed the boat as it was about to head out into Lake Superior. He reminded the operator that Wisconsin law required wearing of a PFD for anyone under a certain age (I don't recall the precise figure, perhaps 14-years-old). The skipper nodded and continued heading out to the lake. It was a nice afternoon and the weather was fair, but I am not sure I would take my family into Lake Superior in that boat.

The volunteer came back and said, "I can't enforce the rules, but at least I can tell them what the rules are."

lizard posted 07-16-2012 12:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for lizard  Send Email to lizard     
My grandfather was a member of the CG Auxiliary in CT after his retirement. He took a sense of responsibility and pride in what he did. After his death, in 1988, my grandmother donated his boat to the auxiliary.

There is a gentleman at my marina, one dock finger down, who is also a CG Auxiliary member. Pleasant, knowledgeable, ready to help anyone.

I admire most volunteers, the CG Auxiliary, is no exception.

David Pendleton posted 07-16-2012 01:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton    
Kids should be wearing life jackets. No question about that.

Unfortunately, "enforcement" is usually at the hands of several USCG personnel carrying Sig p229's, aboard Safe boats armed with M249 SAW's or M-60 machine guns.

fno posted 07-16-2012 08:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for fno  Send Email to fno     
Here we go again.....Why did guns have to join the discussion about CG Auxiliary and life jackets, Dave? Totally uncool!!
Dave Sutton posted 07-16-2012 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Sutton  Send Email to Dave Sutton     
I think Dave's point is that the USCG Aux is doing what we old timers think that the USCG ought to be doing, which is boating safety outreach and SAR, rather than being an overtly adversarial police / military organization. Those of us who remember *sailors* and not *policemen* aboard USCG boats mourn those days.

It used to be that we greeted the 40 footers (and later the 41's) with a wave, a smile, an invite for a cold one tossed across the water, and had a friendly working relationship with our local 'Coasties. We helped them, and they helped us. No longer.

Kudu's to the Aux... as Jim said.


Dave


.

skinnywater posted 07-16-2012 09:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for skinnywater    
I hope that the CG Aux would be able to contact the servicing CG station and alert them to such a flagrant and dangerous violation - just so the duty watch can be on alert and, in a case like this if time and circumstance permits, maybe send a crew to visit the area to "counsel" the "Captain" and the passengers (even if only in a 13-15 foot run around themselves - a Whaler, preferably) and maybe escort them back to the docks with the threat of writing so many tickets for Multiple violations of stupidity and endangerment that they'll be hanging tickets off the adults' ears rather than maybe bringing them to the docks later with tags hanging off their multiple children's toes because of the magnitude of the adults' sheer stupidity!

I think it's Better to take the chance that someone will have to spend some time in court because they were spotted being extremely stupid and someone alerted the patrol rather than take the chance that someone will spend eternity as a corpse because other folks just shook their head in disbelief and looked away when they simply couldn't bear to watch anymore... but didn't want to say anything!

If only it were that simple - but seems to me, in a case like this, it could be.

David Pendleton posted 07-16-2012 09:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton    
Sorry fno. Dave Sutton is right, that's exactly what I meant.
jimp posted 07-16-2012 10:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimp  Send Email to jimp     
The USCGAux was doing what the USCGAux is supposed to do: educating.

I got my Vessel Safety Check (VSC) in April. Two weekends ago a 25' USCG SafeBoat with boarding team pulled alongside and stated, "When was the last time you were boarded by the Coast Guard?" I said, "Several years ago. But are you boarding boats with 2012 Vessel Safety Checks?" They looked at the decal and said, "Have a nice day and thank-you for supporting the program."

Remember, the USCGAux is made up of volunteers. No pay, long hours, and sometimes great risks to themselves. Many years ago, when I was CO of a the 95-ft USCGC Cape Jellison in Seward, Alaska, two of my Auxilary friends received an award for a great rescue:

"1979 - James Clement and Robin Smith, 17th District. On May 28, 1979, Mr. Clement was skipper and Smith was serving as crew of the Auxiliary Facility "Lively Lady". (The other crew members were their wives, Jennine Clement and Linda Smith.) They were returning to Seward, Alaska after a 6-hour SAR mission when they got a radio message that three men had been seen clinging to an overturned, half-submerged skiff in Resurrection Bay. "Lively Lady" went to the rescue, and Mr. Clement and Mr. Smith took a 10-foot rubber raft into the shallows. They had to make two trips to rescue all three men and get them to a hospital, where all three were treated for advanced hypothermia. Mrs. Clement and Mrs. Smith were presented with the Auxiliary B Award."

The narrative doesn't say a lot. Both Jim and Robin were in their 40's. Both spent a lot of time in the water (temp mid 50s). The first two people were taken back to the "Lively Lady", up wind. "Lively Lady" was a nice 42' Chris Craft Commander Sportfisherman operated by Jennine as both Jim and Robin were in the water. The last person, who was overweight, had to be taken ashore as the winds had picked up and Rob & Jim couldn't make headway against it out to the "Lively Lady". The raft was full of water and Rob & Jim ended up pushing/pulling through 500-yards of shallows to reach the beach. Jennine & Linda took "Lively Lady" back to her moorings.

JimP

PeteB88 posted 07-16-2012 11:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
Good reminder - I will get with Station Grand Haven AUX this week for the sticker.
fno posted 07-16-2012 06:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for fno  Send Email to fno     
David, Dave, you are both correct in your statements and I agree with your observations of both the old Coast Guard and the new Homeland Security Guard. However David, I do not think you made your point very clear with the mention of the Coasties arsenal. And given the last long winded thread about guns and boats and guns and idiots and guns and left leaning do-gooders, all I could see was another diatribe of worthless pontification brewing. During boating season no less. I apologize for my misinterpretation as well.
elaelap posted 07-16-2012 08:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
I was in his boat (a very, very sweet classic Revenge 22 walkthru) with Jim (jimp) when the coasties came by. Smiles all around, and Jim didn't tell you that he had me wrapped up in his USCG float jacket, and, more importantly, Jim's a retired Coast Guard commander.

A great visit to SW Alaska...much more in a couple of days, with lots of photos. The king salmon bite's on down here out of Bodega Bay, and I've been out the last three days since I've returned from Alaska, so no time for a long post. Out again tomorrow, but stand by for some amazing pix from the not-frozen Northland ;-)

Tony

David Pendleton posted 07-16-2012 09:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton    
No worries, fno.

The last time I was boarded was in Bayfield, WI (2mi offshore at that) two years ago.

The crew was polite and friendly, the SafeBoat operator was incredibly skilled at keeping our boats gunwale-to-gunwale in spite of the conditions.

What struck me that was the boarding party was four people, all armed. Only myself and my wife were aboard my boat. One guy looked around and asked questions while the other three just stood there.

Satisfied that I had all the required safety equipment, he made a positive remark about my EPIRB, and after writing me up, they were on their way.

This would have been a more positive experience save for the four people on my 23' boat.

I just don't see why that's necessary.

Dave Sutton posted 07-16-2012 11:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Sutton  Send Email to Dave Sutton     
"I do not think you made your point very clear with the mention of the Coasties arsenal"

The point is very clear: Dave P stated what many of us think, to whit:

There is absolutely no reason to send armed men aboard a small boat to check for safety equipment. None. Not under any circumstance. The USCG will always be the adversary until this nonsense ends. Until then... they stand on the other side of the fence.


Dave

fno posted 07-17-2012 12:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for fno  Send Email to fno     
David, what did they write you up for? Was it a contact report for them to justify their time on the water protecting us from Canadian based terrorists??? I say that in jest!! Did they write a contact report? If so I can only imagine how many there are floating in filing cabinets waiting for some ambitious person(s) took delve through for terorrists....

By the bye, all good with the discussion, let's move on to boats and beer....

fno posted 07-17-2012 12:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for fno  Send Email to fno     
David, what did they write you up for? Was it a contact report for them to justify their time on the water protecting us from Canadian based terrorists??? I say that in jest!! Did they write a contact report? If so I can only imagine how many there are floating in filing cabinets waiting for some ambitious person(s) took delve through for terorrists....

By the bye, all good with the discussion, let's move on to boats and beer....

David Pendleton posted 07-17-2012 12:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton    
No, no, it wasn't a violation report. It was just a "we were here" kind of thing. They told me to hang on to it in case I was stopped again. Apparently I could avoid subsequent boarding inspections by showing this document.

Incidentally, I had a current USCGA courtesy inspection sticker on my windshield. So the the sticker-as-a-pass claim is a myth, in my opinion.

fno posted 07-17-2012 12:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for fno  Send Email to fno     
Dave, not David Pendleton. I am not afraid of an encounter with a 31' or 34' boat full of young Americans with the best firepower on my particular part of the sea. It is very unlikely that they will blast me out of the water. Is it a pleasant encounter??? No, not in the least, but it is what it is.....

And bye and bye, if you are in the South of Florida, the Coasties are assisting with Customs and Immigration not to mention DEA and ATF, so guns on their boats are almost mandatory for their missions. Piss and moan all you want, but for the most part, these young people are courtious and respectful of most Whaler operators.... Unless of course your find a way to agitate them....

PeteB88 posted 07-17-2012 12:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
Fun or nothing.
Chuck Tribolet posted 07-17-2012 12:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I think the effect of the USCGA sticker is a function of the
circumstances. Parameters of the circumstances include how
many other boats are around and what is their impression of
your boat. The coasties have good cop instincts. They can
take a look at a boat, and know at a glance whether they are
going to find violations. If there are other boats, they
are going to maybe do a quick PFD count and say "have a nice
day". If there's nobody else around, you may get a boarding
so the CO (or worse, the Chief) doesn't think they were
goofing off.

I've had two formal boardings. Both while tied up at the
courtesy dock at the Monterey Breakwater. In both cases,
there were no other boats around. We were between dives,
tied up to use the head and change tanks. We passed both
times, no problem. The Coasties were polite and professional.
It was clear that one was an old hand and the other a newb
in training. That's OK, didn't cost us any time.

NorCal folks: next rendezvous (unless it's the America's Cup,
when things are nuts) we really need to see if we can get
the local USCG Aux or US Power Squadron to do their thing.

Chuck

lizard posted 07-17-2012 12:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for lizard  Send Email to lizard     
From Dave Sutton:

"There is absolutely no reason to send armed men aboard a small boat to check for safety equipment. None. Not under any circumstance. The USCG will always be the adversary until this nonsense ends. Until then... they stand on the other side of the fence"

Well, that is one way (and a very myopic one) to look at your relationship with the CG. Everything evolves and it is not the era of your grandfather's Chevy any longer. Get with it. Post 9/11-whether you agree or not, THINGS HAVE CHANGED. Not that all change is logical, appealing, warranted, etc. but this is the way of the world now.

If you were to consider history, the USS Cole was bombed (and people died) by a small boat, considered a private vessel at the time. The last administration made sure that American Civil Liberties were a thing of the past. Don't blame it on the current administration.

I don't drive a car on public streets and expect to be exempt from LEOs (police, etc.), I don't enter a foreign country without a passport and the required visas, I don't go to the airport without an ID, and I don't bring anything considered a weapon aboard a plane. I can no longer enter my bank with a head covering, helmet or sunglasses. WHY SHOULD BOATING BE DIFFERENT?

Finally, who beat the fear factor into Americans, that lead to many of these laws and changes? A small man, with a small mind, who could not pronounce the word "nuclear".

It is a changed world. Buck up or shut up.


David Pendleton posted 07-17-2012 01:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton    
Here's why I think this kind of thing is dangerous. This was several years ago.

I keep my boat on the trailer in a designated parking spot in my Marina.

After using my boat and returning home one day, I found that I had left my wallet aboard, so I drove back to the Marina.

A (new) security guy watched me climb aboard my boat, and then climb down and drive away. The regular security guys know me, since I've been around for 15 years. This new guy didn't and called the county sheriff. I'm glad he did this, because it's what he's supposed to do.

When I left the marina I was pulled-over about 5 miles away by county sheriff's deputy.

The deputy approached my window and we talked for a minute or two. The he asked me if I had any weapons in the car. I informed him (per MN law) that I was carrying a handgun on my right hip.

I then went to hand him my MN permit to carry a pistol, but by that time he was ordering me out of the car and down on the ground--this was at gunpoint, by the way.

Had I made any move this deputy found threatening during this encounter, I'm certain I would have been killed.

He examined my permit whilst I was prone on the ground, and after deciding I wasn't the the threat he thought I was, sent me on my way.

Bottom line: when you're confronted by armed law-enforcement, you'd better be afraid--and careful.

lizard posted 07-17-2012 01:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for lizard  Send Email to lizard     
David- The way I see this is that you should be honest (as you were) and cooperative. We don't walk in the shoes of LEOs who are shot in routine traffic stops. You have the legal right to carry? Good. Be prepared for that LEO to ensure their safety and those around them. Do you realize how often a routine traffic stop leads to death for that officer? Very common. That is why many law enforcement agencies now have video cam in their vehicles.
Dave Sutton posted 07-17-2012 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Sutton  Send Email to Dave Sutton     
"Finally, who beat the fear factor into Americans, that lead to many of these laws and changes? A small man, with a small mind, who could not pronounce the word "nuclear"."


I said it before, and I say it again;

Piss Off, Lizzie.


.

Tom W Clark posted 07-17-2012 08:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Great comeback Sutton. And nice work dragging Jim's thread dans la merde.
gnr posted 07-17-2012 11:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for gnr    
Come on Clark. It's a changed forum.

Buck up or shut up!


LOL

jimh posted 07-17-2012 01:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I'll take the last word in this discussion.

One of the reasons I like to go boating is to get away from the land, away from the cities, away from the troubles of the shore. I like the open water. I like being able to drive my boat where I want--more or less--without stop signs, traffic lights, speed limits, and other limitations of automobile travel. Being out in the boat on open water gives me a sense of freedom from all that limits us on land.

There is a lot of irony in the current situation with being in a small boat on open water. You give up almost all of your constitutional rights protecting you against unreasonable search and seizure. On land, in your automobile, you cannot be stopped by a law enforcement officer just on a whim or pretense and subjected to a safety inspection or to produce "your papers". There must be some probable cause for the stop. Yet, on the water, you can be hauled over by any number of law enforcement agencies, stopped, boarded, have your boat tossed for an inspection at any time for no reason and without any probable cause. As a boater you do not have the same rights as you do as a motorist. They're gone. It is not something that George Bush did. These rules are very old rules. What has changed is the number of agencies on the water who think they should conduct these boardings, and the mandate they have been given to actually conduct them. I am sure the Coasties would rather cruise around in Khaki shorts and wave at boaters, instead of dressing like an assault rifle team and scaring women and children of the boats they stop.

Recently we were staying at a marina near the Straits of Mackinaw. While out for an early morning walk at sunrise, I ran into a fellow mariner who kept his boat moored there. We chatted about many topics. He told me about the somewhat capricious policy of Homeland Security or USCG patrols interdicting small boats approaching the Mackinaw Bridge--a huge suspension bridge that joins Michigan's two peninsulas. The next day we were out for a boat ride, and we approached the bridge. When about a mile away I spotted a 25-foot S.A.F.E. boat idling around on the lee side of the base of the North Tower foundation of the bridge. I don't know what they would have done if I had approached the bridge at closer range. We altered course and came no closer.

One reason why we often travel 300-miles to go boating is to get away from the nonsense and BS of boating in our local area. There are too many law enforcement agencies on the water, too many orders to conduct boardings, and too much hassle. We like to go to Canada and to remote areas.

In Canada there is a fundamental difference with their Coast Guard: it is not a military service. It is a civil service. They don't think of themselves as commandos on an assault rifle team. At least not the ones we see in the Northern Great Lakes.

I think it is absurd for the USCG to conduct boardings with rifles and handguns. If they need that sort of protection, then station people at every port and inspect every vessel before it leaves port. Leave us alone when we get out on the water. We have gone out there to enjoy the water, not to be harassed by an assault team.

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