posted 08-03-2012 09:50 PM ET (US)        

On this bill is the replacement of my trim-tab actuators and I'm okay with the charges. Long story short, it was discovered shortly thereafter that my bilge pump was bad. I replaced this pump once myself (it's a Flowjet, bulkhead-mounted pump, not a Rule or something like that). I remember it taking about 10 minutes to remove the old pump, cut the wires, install the new pump and then reconnect the wires and heat-shrink them.

My marina is billing me for two hours labor to do this same thing ($200+ dollars).

One part of me (the larger part) wants to call them on this. Another part (a smaller, perhaps more practical part) says pay it and never again.

Unlike coastal areas, I live in an area with few trailer-boat friendly marinas where I can both store my boat and launch when I want free of charge (I pay a yearly fee).

In other words, If I tell them to piss off, or piss them off, I don't have a lot of alternatives. I've been at this marina for 15 years, and I have a great relationship with all the staff.

posted 08-03-2012 10:26 PM ET (US)            

We "accept" too much in this country sometimes without providing feedback.

Be polite. Their response should be, "Thank you for your comments."

posted 08-03-2012 10:29 PM ET (US)            

I just think this particular charge is excessive.

posted 08-04-2012 12:20 AM ET (US)            

There are great shops who are incredible to deal with. For example, I was stunned a week or so ago when I asked a local boat shop how much they'd charge to do the thermostats. They called back and told me "the book says it's a 2 hour job but we'll charge you an hour and a half..." RIght then I said that's fantastic, blew me away and they got an instant loyal customer and positive referrals. SO between them and Lockeman's I have two great options.

These experiences are one major reason I have always done most of my own mechanical work on cars, bikes and now boats. My #1 nephew was here when I was digging into my thermostats and impeller and told me when he is finished with school (he wants to be rich ) he will simply pay someone to do "all that crap" for me. My answer to him as to why I prefer to do my own work was 1) it will be done right and 2) I will learn something from doing it myself so the chance of BSing me about changing muffler bearings is minimal.

posted 08-04-2012 01:03 AM ET (US)            

Even long time customers do not like to be overcharged, and if a shop does that too much they will lose customers.

posted 08-04-2012 09:43 AM ET (US)            

To keep a 21' on the hardstand here is around 3k.
Keep it in a pen on the water and you can almost double that.
That's nothing compared to the larger boats.
Just think. A small problem with the electricals on those larger boats and you could kiss 5k goodbye...

I try to avoid using the marina's mechanics because I know they have to charge premium rates to absorb the high rents to have their workshops at the marina and then there is the on going cost of maintaining specialist staff.
For example, to service my 225 Merc at the Marina it is $450(Labour) and elsewhere it's around $360.

Imagine be forced to buy your fuel at the marina's bowser as the non trailer boats must. Think of all the fuel the bigger boats suck too.

I think if you have the use of good facilities as we have then you occasionally have to cop it and say nothing to keep the peace and not draw attention.

posted 08-04-2012 04:36 PM ET (US)            

The service manager wanted to charge her 4 hours of labor to change the filter and clean the duct siting the fact that to clean the duct it proved necessary to dismantle the dashboard to get at the duct to be able to clean it. My wife, knowing this was a lie, called me. When I arrived, I asked the service manager to explain for me at the car what work was completed. He proceeded to explain how the entire dash was removed to gain access to the ductwork and then reassembled.

Not having any previous specific knowledge of this car's ventilation system, I opened the hood, and in less than 20 seconds had found an access port to the ductwork with a snap off lid. Moving a couple hoses and then the lid took less than 1 minute. I looked down the port hatch and saw a few straws that had not been removed resting atop the supposedly just replaced cabin air filter and pulled them out and handed them to the service manager. Looking further into the hatch I could see that the filter slid into a bracket that extended towards the glove compartment.

I opened the glove compartment, squeezed its tabs so it would drop down out of the way, opened the cabin air filter access door and pulled out the dirty unchanged air filter. Total time start to finish approximately 2 minutes.

My wife took some photos of the dirty filter and dried grass with her cell phone and I demanded to see the general manager. After an assurance the service manager would be disciplined for what had transpired we left without having to pay for any of the service bill. Needless to say, my wife changed dealerships for her service. The first time she went to the new dealership she discovered the exact same 4-hour cabin air filter charge had happened to someone else sitting there for service.

I would not stand for a 2 hour charge to replace a bilge pump. I would talk to the manager and ask what is a worst case scenario to replace a pump? If the answer seems unreasonable ask them to break down each step and how long each step should take. Even with travel time to a boat, clock to clock, it should be completely unreasonable to justify more than 30 minutes work at the boat for the job you described.

posted 08-04-2012 05:41 PM ET (US)            

Don't complain, inform.

1) You believe you may have been overcharged
2) you're paying attention
3) you're a long-time customer and want to keep a strong relationship, however, you need to feel like they're not taking advantage of you
4) You would like them to review the invoice and explain why it cost $200 to accomplish this task

If they're offended at that approach, just pay the bill, but start looking for other options.

Best,

posted 08-05-2012 09:49 AM ET (US)            

Even for small jobs it's not out of line to ask for an approximation of the cost before authorizing work to proceed.

posted 08-05-2012 05:36 PM ET (US)            

Rather than be silent, have a very quiet talk with the service manager some time after the service was done. Let the time go by so that there is no fresh emotion involved. Be cool. See what happens. If they are progressive in their customer relations worldview, you might make a better friend and service provider than if you stayed quiet. At the worst, you are not a customer for their service department any longer and go about your business with a smile.

Clipped out the following, so enjoy.

Dave

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ARTICLE - SILENT BUT DEADLY

When your customers encounter a mediocre or poor service experience the vast majority will not complain but rather, they will simply take their business elsewhere.

Here is what research from several reliable sources tells us:

•If you receive one complaint about poor service it is likely that 24 other people also received poor service but did not make a complaint. Why? Because they don’t think it will do any good, or they can’t be bothered, or they don’t want the hassle.
•Out of these 24 people, research indicates that approximately 22 will simply take their business elsewhere.
According to the latest American Express Global Customer Service Barometer survey, there is one possible exception. If your customers are reasonably satisfied with the overall service experience with you but they encounter a poor service experience, they may return one more time. However, if the service they experience on their second visit is also poor, they are gone for good. Quoting from the survey results, “Two Strikes and You’re Out!”

Your customers’ silence is deadly for your business not only because you have lost the lifetime value these customers bring to your business but because of the impact these customers have on your potential prospects. Forum, TARP and other respected research groups suggest that each unhappy customer will tell 8 to 10 friends, colleagues, and/or family about their bad experience. Human nature being what it is, they will embellish their bad service stories as well. The upshot is that for every bad service complaint you do receive, there are 198 bad service stories circulating about your business. To make matters worse, this does not even factor in the internet and the proliferation of bad service experience stories which have the potential to go viral. Maybe you have seen the Airline Lost My Guitar song that went viral on You Tube and was viewed by millions, or the Comcast service technician who fell asleep while waiting on hold with his service department.

More and more customers are also using online postings of others’ opinions about their service experience when making buying decisions. The Amex research suggests that consumers in some countries rely on this resource more than others, but there is a clear trend occurring. The survey indicates that customers in India (80%), Italy (68%), Japan (61%), Mexico (60%), Spain (58%) and USA (48%) are the most likely to always or often use a consumer review, blog or online posting to get other consumers’ opinions about a company’s reputation for customer service. If the markets you serve are global in nature, this information should not be ignored.

The survey also indicated that a posting that describes a poor experience is significantly more influential in customers’ decisions to do business with a company than a posting describing a good experience. This rating averages out at approximately 60%. Customers in Australia, the Netherlands (40% each), Canada and France (38% each) are the least likely to (always/often) use online postings as a resource. This offers little comfort because you still have to contend with the bad stories being told to friends, family and colleagues. These bad stories are even more powerful than online postings because the stories are being recounted by people who your potential new customers know and trust. These stories will negatively impact the perceptions of these potential customers and reduce the possibiity of them patronizing your business.

++++++++++++++++++++++

- 68% of customer defection takes place because customers feel poorly treated. Source: TARP

- It can cost five times more to buy new customers than retain existing ones. Source: TARP

- Why customers quit:

1% die
3% move away
68% quit because of an attitude of indifference towards the customer by the staff.
14 % are dissatisfied with the product.
9% leave because of competitive reasons.

Source: How to win customers and keep them for life (2000) – Michael Leboeuf

- For every customer who bothers to complain, 26 other customers remain silent. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- It takes 12 positive service incidents to make up for 1 negative incident. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- The average "wronged customer" will tell 8-l6 people about it. Over 20% will tell more than 20. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- 91% of unhappy customers will not willingly do business with you again. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- 70% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favour. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- 95% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint instantly. Source: Lee Resource Inc

- Reducing customer defections can boost profits by 25-85%. In 73% of cases, the organization made no attempt to persuade dissatisfied customers to stay; even though 35% said that a simple apology would have prevented them from moving to the competition. Source: NOP

- 56%-70% of the customers who complain to you will do business with you again if you resolve their problem. If they feel you acted quickly and to their satisfaction, up to 96% will do business with you again, and they will probably refer other people to you. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

- A dissatisfied customer will tell 9-15 people about it. And approximately 13% of your dissatisfied customers will tell more than 20 people about their problem. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

- Happy customers who have their problems resolved will tell 4-6 people about their positive experience. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

- It costs five to six times as much to get a new (first time) customer as it does to keep a current one. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

- Customer loyalty can be worth up to 10 times as much as a single purchase. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

- It costs 6 times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an old one. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- Customer loyalty is, in most cases worth 10 times the price of a single purchase. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- A typical business hears from only about 4% of its dissatisfied customers. 96% just go away and 91% will never come back. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- 13% of the people who have service problems tell 20 others. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- It takes 12 positive service incidents to make up for one negative incident. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

- 7 out of 10 customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favor. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

posted 08-06-2012 12:28 AM ET (US)            

Sounds painfull! but crapping gold bricks would be nice these days.

posted 08-06-2012 02:13 AM ET (US)            

If I could get a repair, without pulling my boat onto my trailer and towing it somewhere, I would consider paying what might be considered a premium price to avoid that. Your time=money.

posted 08-07-2012 12:17 PM ET (US)            

When I purchased my Revenge last spring, I asked the Whaler dealership to replace one of the thru hull tubes that was in poor shape. I figured that they have the tools & the experience, so I had them do it.

I was shocked when they wacked me with a 3 hour charge for the replacement. I politely questioned it and they dropped the labor in half.

posted 08-07-2012 01:48 PM ET (US)            

The one part I needed was about $50.00 including the parts which I had to wait because nobody had them in stock. Hour rate was a $100.00, plus I was stupid busy with work. I thought I would eat the difference I had already bought the thermostats at a good price anyways. I expected and hour tops turned out to be 2 hours. They seem to like to add that extra hour in there. Its crazy but like I said if you can do it yourself always do it because if you don't you are at the mercy of the shop. We always expect to be treated fairly but sometimes its just hard to come by.

The other thing is sometimes its not the mechanic so much but the office manager who puts the bill together.

posted 08-07-2012 02:05 PM ET (US)            

Thats not going to work! no so I question it. They wanted me to pay 100.00 to get there and another $100 for him to return back to the office. Twice!! They couldn't really understand where I was coming from can you believe it? I was told its their time away from the shop and gas charges etc. I just said one way thats it Im not paying to send him home or get the mechanic to the next job that the dealer will probably get the next client to pay another 100.00 anyways.

Thats what is out there, and stuff like that Im not silent about but an hour over is a bit nasty yes but I will just remember that next time and like you said just purchase the part myself and do it no matter what. This is the time of year where some shops get a bit greedy its summer lots of jobs and people just want their boats like now!!

posted 08-07-2012 02:46 PM ET (US)            

To value their expertise all you have to do is pull the cover off and dig into your motor, invest in the tools, manuals etc and it's clear. When I can, I like to do my own wrenching to gain skills, save money, use all the tools I keep buying, stay busy AND establish more and more BS Prevention for myself so the a-hole ripoff artists can't bullshit me.

I think the best ones are worth their hourly rate especially if the result is as or more than expected and I do not feel like I am being BSd or used.

posted 08-07-2012 07:09 PM ET (US)            

Apparently, the tech tried to salvage the pump since they do not stock it. He spent time removing, disassembling, cleaning and re-assembling the pump. He also spent time testing it.

posted 08-07-2012 08:25 PM ET (US)            

Sounds painfull! but crapping gold bricks would be nice these days.

posted 08-07-2012 08:42 PM ET (US)            

My 13-year old Mercruiser is relatively low-tech. The only thing I wouldn't mess with on my own is the fuel injection, or the Mercathode.

Luckily, and perhaps amazingly, the only thing I have had to fix on my engine in 13 years is the thermostat. That took me about 45 minutes and about $26.00 in parts.

posted 08-08-2012 03:20 AM ET (US)            

There was a lot I could service on my old 1985 Johnson V-4 90 hp motor, and it ran like a bat out of hell and drank like a prom date. My 2001 Evinrude Ficht 115 hp still has some self-serviceable components, but once you have to get into the EMM to understand and repair your motor, it is beyond me.

While I didn't foot the bill, I'd sum this up as well intended, poorly communicated by them and they tried to make it right. Not sure that they would lose my business over it.

posted 08-09-2012 04:09 AM ET (US)            

I remember getting my boat back from the shop and I recall being very disappointed with the quality of parts and service. I have since gone to doing all repairs myself. The only repair I will farm out on my boat is the valve clearances because I don't know that procedure.. and I'm tempted to learn it.