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Author Topic:   2001 Montauk Plug in Bilge Area

jtms posted 08-28-2012 04:45 PM ET (US)
I know this has been discussed at length and I've run the search function and read many of the threads.
My bilge failed recently and we got a ton or rain today because of the hurricane. My wife just called me and I went back to the house and found a couple feet of water in my 01' Montauk. I got the water out then pulled the plug by the bilge pump and a decent amount of water came into the boat. I had to go back to work and didn't have confidence to leave the plug out so I stuck it back in.
Can someone please explain to me how a drain below the waterline can be left open and will not continue to allow water to enter? I am not worried about the boat sinking, but I don't want saltwater to get into the console by all my electrical connections and batteries. This would be a mess!
jimh posted 08-28-2012 05:48 PM ET (US)
Read the owner's manual on this topic:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual9-17/operations. html#drainTubes
jtms posted 08-28-2012 06:02 PM ET (US)
I did read the owner's manual and this sentence didn't give me much reassurance, "the water level will not exceed the height of fuel tanks or battery boxes." My fuel tank and battery boxes are up pretty high and I don't want anywhere close to that much water in my boat. The boat is very unstable with that much water and I would think it would be ill-advised to go under power with 12-18 inches of water in your boat.
6992WHALER posted 08-28-2012 06:36 PM ET (US)
I would recommend pulling the plug and see for yourself how much water comes in. My 1966 Sakonnet will put a little pool of water around the stern. The water would not be considered significant. I do not leave the drain plug out just because I do not want to clean the deck after that lake water has sat on it. But if my bilge pump failed I would not hesitate to pull the plug to keep the boat from filling up with rain water.
The boat will stop filling with water because Boston Whaler boats are so buoyant that even with the plug out they will not float significantly lower in the water thus the water stops coming in.
My 1971 Boston Whaler Squall is so buoyant that you can fill it to the gunwales and the little boat in about 5 minutes will completely drain all the water out. In other words the boat is more buoyant then the weight of the water you can put inside it.
Basically with these little Boston Whaler Boats the only time you can "sink" them is when the drain plug is in.
jtms posted 08-28-2012 07:57 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the response, that makes perfect sense. Now I will be able to sleep tonight without worrying about the boat not having the plug in it.
jimh posted 08-28-2012 10:47 PM ET (US)
Glad you are going to follow the advice in the owner's manual.
jtms posted 08-29-2012 01:29 PM ET (US)
Actually, this advice was not in my owner's manual and that was part of the reason why I wanted to confirm. I imagine the owner's manual has changed over the years, but maybe not.
Ended up quite a bit of water came in once I removed the plug. I wouuld say 3-4 inches of water filled the entire boat. Certainly much more than what others have indicated, but maybe this has something to do with the load on my boat or current by the dock. No telling, but it will have to do until I have a chance to swap out the bilge pump this weekend because we are expecting another 4-8 inches or rain tonight.
You would think that Boston Whaler would have figured a way to make this boat self-bailing given the number of years they have been making it. I am sure someone will say that it is self-bailing, but having to flood your boat to allow it to stabilize isn't my idea of self-bailing.
jimh posted 08-29-2012 02:00 PM ET (US)
OK--I misunderstood you. I thought you were going to leave out the sump drain plug, let the water rise into the sump a bit, and leave the boat unattended. What are you going to do? Are you doing to leave the sump drain plugged?
L H G posted 08-29-2012 02:34 PM ET (US)
16/17' classic hulls are by no means self-bailing boats if you describe that as a dry floor with water only in the lower sumps.
Once they take on a couple of inches of water they are, but that is only a workable solution for a short period of time when excessive rain is anticipated. In almost all mooring/docking conditions, the boats need a functioning bilge pump.
When the boat is nearby and can be tended to about once a week, I highly recommend the Rule 500 GPH auto sensing pump, since it's small and compact in the sump. It needs to be operated though an overriding on-off switch, so that when no bilge pump activity is needed, it can be turned off. The sensing function will not run down a good battery. For reference, here is my installation of that particular pump:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Montauk%2017/?action=view& current=Scan_Pic0008.jpg
If the boat is left for long periods of time, then a mechanical float switch installation can be a little better
solution to avoid the continuous sensing.
jtms posted 08-29-2012 04:39 PM ET (US)
Thanks LHG. That is actually the pump that I have but in the oval shape. It has performed well until recently and I plan on getting another one.
I keep my boat in the water all the time and haven't had the time to pull it out or to replace the bilge. I am just trying to figure out a temporary plan to get through the week so I can put a new pump in. Unfortunatley, we had 8 inches of rain yesterday and are expecting 4-8 inches tonight.
I pulled the plug as so many suggested and I have had 3 neighbors call me (one bailed the boat for me) to tell me my boat was sinking. Maybe others have better experiences, but I will likely drain the boat and put the plug back in. If it rains a lot I will plan on bailing her again in the morning.
Frankly, I find the manual (not my manual b/c it didn't state to remove the plug) not to be accurate and a bit comical. The fact that Boston Whaler would advise you to pull the plug and promise "that water will not exceed your batteries or fuel tank" as an acceptable solution is beyond me. Then they state that the water will quickly disperse once underway. The boat is so unstable that I would not consider running the boat to disperse the water and would think this would be quite dangerous.
prj posted 08-29-2012 05:28 PM ET (US)
Your description of the amount of water taken on with the plug pulled, in a 2001 Montauk sounds a bit higher than I would expect (3 - 4 inches over the entire boat). Do you have it heavily laden with gear or fuel or whatnot?
Someone else with that model (is this still the classic hull?) should be able to definitively advise regarding the amount of water taken on with the plug pulled.
gnr posted 08-29-2012 06:00 PM ET (US)
My 17 Guardian will take on water maybe an inch deep right in front of the splash well. Depending on conditions it may extend in ever shallowing fashion, four or five feet forward of the splash well. This with the 88 spl, a 5HP kicker, two downriggers, two batteries a couple coolers and often a fat fishing buddy near the transom.
A couple trips ago I trolled for a few hours without the plug in and didn't even notice it. It was a rough day and we were taking an occasional one over the bow which I occasionally cleared with the pump.
Didn't notice anything unusual until I was idling in the calm near the launch waiting for the tow vehicle to be brought over. No water when I dropped my buddy at the dock but a couple minutes later when I was stowing things there was water.
Sure enough the plug was dangling from the chain when I pulled the boat.
I wouldn't hesitate to leave my 17 in the water with the plug pulled.
jimh posted 08-29-2012 09:21 PM ET (US)
Your MONTAUK must be waterlogged or extremely heavily loaded. Your experience seems at odds with the factory instructions and other owners.
The neighbors who were bailing your MONTAUK must have become tired when the water level never changed due to the open hull drains.
jimh posted 08-29-2012 09:22 PM ET (US)
Also, if your neighbors stepped aboard to do the bailing, they just exacerbated the problem instead of helped it.
6992WHALER posted 08-30-2012 10:59 AM ET (US)
I agree something does not sound right.
Yesterday I spilled some gas on the deck in front of the pilot seat on my 1966 Sakonnet. I did not have a bucket with me so while I drifted in the middle of the lake as the kids swam, I pulled the drain plug. It took one kid my 60 pond dog and myself moving back and forth from starboard to port to get enough water to just rinse the deck in front of the pilot seat. If we just sat there the water stopped well behind the pilot seat.
I would not say that the 16/17 hull fills up with a couple inches of water. The water stops 3 feet from the stern.
The amount of weight in the boat will change this. I had 6 gallons of gas and a battery in the stern, with 9 more gallons midships, and I have a wood casting platform installed in the bow. Also on board one 13 year old girl, one 60 pound dog and one 180 pound guy.
When the rain stops and you get everything back to normal, take a picture of the boat in the water. It would be interesting to see the location of the waterline on your boat.
jtms posted 08-30-2012 11:15 AM ET (US)
Thanks for all of the responses. I pulled the boat out of the water this morning because I wasn't satisfied having 3-4 inches of water in my boat (saltwater). I'll definitely take a pic once I get her back at the slip.
I have two batteries, around 15 gallons of gas, and the usual miscellaneous gear on board. I would not say the boat is heavily loaded by any stretch. To answer a poster's question, the boat is a 2001 which is still a classic hull.
How does a hull become water logged? This would imply that water is somehow seeping in through the boat while at the dock? I have had the boat for three years and it doesn't float any lower than it did when I got it. The boat it right in front of my house so I stare at her beautiful lines often and would have noticed the waterline changing. The gentleman that I purchased the boat from kept it in the garage and it was in pristine condition (10 out of 10). Maybe the initial flooding of the boat when the bilge failed and I still had the plug in somehow water logged the boat? The water did not enter the console, but it got very close.
prj posted 08-30-2012 11:22 AM ET (US)
Publish a photo of your boat floating static in the water as typically loaded. Try to include transom drain tubes or other known datum points in the image. We'll be able to provide some thoughts on how she's floating, high, low or as expected.
jcrwshw posted 08-30-2012 06:15 PM ET (US)
Pulling the plug on a 17' whaler should show an inch of water...maybe 2 inches if there's a heavy motor and battery. I've sunk my 15' to show my friends how easy things can be when you own a whaler... 20min later the boat was floating high and dry without a pump or a bailing bucket...amazing.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G2DesBpZqzw/R4R4Er-UQUI/AAAAAAAAA4Y/ B2k7-vGC-Z4/s1160/sinkingwhaler2.jpg
ScooterCO posted 08-31-2012 04:31 PM ET (US)
I have a 99 montauk with a yamaha 4 stroke and the factory rear seat. It always has water in the splash well of aprox 1 1/2 inches when looking at it from inside the boat. This is several inchs above the floor height, so if I were to pull the drain plug the boat would fill with several inches of water. What you are describing sounds right to me.
Fyi, the rule pump you have is known for clogging up and the float sticking. Take the base off and clean it. It might be just fine.

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Author	Topic: 2001 Montauk Plug in Bilge Area
jtms	posted 08-28-2012 04:45 PM ET (US) I know this has been discussed at length and I've run the search function and read many of the threads. My bilge failed recently and we got a ton or rain today because of the hurricane. My wife just called me and I went back to the house and found a couple feet of water in my 01' Montauk. I got the water out then pulled the plug by the bilge pump and a decent amount of water came into the boat. I had to go back to work and didn't have confidence to leave the plug out so I stuck it back in. Can someone please explain to me how a drain below the waterline can be left open and will not continue to allow water to enter? I am not worried about the boat sinking, but I don't want saltwater to get into the console by all my electrical connections and batteries. This would be a mess!
jimh	posted 08-28-2012 05:48 PM ET (US) Read the owner's manual on this topic: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual9-17/operations. html#drainTubes
jtms	posted 08-28-2012 06:02 PM ET (US) I did read the owner's manual and this sentence didn't give me much reassurance, "the water level will not exceed the height of fuel tanks or battery boxes." My fuel tank and battery boxes are up pretty high and I don't want anywhere close to that much water in my boat. The boat is very unstable with that much water and I would think it would be ill-advised to go under power with 12-18 inches of water in your boat.
6992WHALER	posted 08-28-2012 06:36 PM ET (US) I would recommend pulling the plug and see for yourself how much water comes in. My 1966 Sakonnet will put a little pool of water around the stern. The water would not be considered significant. I do not leave the drain plug out just because I do not want to clean the deck after that lake water has sat on it. But if my bilge pump failed I would not hesitate to pull the plug to keep the boat from filling up with rain water. The boat will stop filling with water because Boston Whaler boats are so buoyant that even with the plug out they will not float significantly lower in the water thus the water stops coming in. My 1971 Boston Whaler Squall is so buoyant that you can fill it to the gunwales and the little boat in about 5 minutes will completely drain all the water out. In other words the boat is more buoyant then the weight of the water you can put inside it. Basically with these little Boston Whaler Boats the only time you can "sink" them is when the drain plug is in.
jtms	posted 08-28-2012 07:57 PM ET (US) Thanks for the response, that makes perfect sense. Now I will be able to sleep tonight without worrying about the boat not having the plug in it.
jimh	posted 08-28-2012 10:47 PM ET (US) Glad you are going to follow the advice in the owner's manual.
jtms	posted 08-29-2012 01:29 PM ET (US) Actually, this advice was not in my owner's manual and that was part of the reason why I wanted to confirm. I imagine the owner's manual has changed over the years, but maybe not. Ended up quite a bit of water came in once I removed the plug. I wouuld say 3-4 inches of water filled the entire boat. Certainly much more than what others have indicated, but maybe this has something to do with the load on my boat or current by the dock. No telling, but it will have to do until I have a chance to swap out the bilge pump this weekend because we are expecting another 4-8 inches or rain tonight. You would think that Boston Whaler would have figured a way to make this boat self-bailing given the number of years they have been making it. I am sure someone will say that it is self-bailing, but having to flood your boat to allow it to stabilize isn't my idea of self-bailing.
jimh	posted 08-29-2012 02:00 PM ET (US) OK--I misunderstood you. I thought you were going to leave out the sump drain plug, let the water rise into the sump a bit, and leave the boat unattended. What are you going to do? Are you doing to leave the sump drain plugged?
L H G	posted 08-29-2012 02:34 PM ET (US) 16/17' classic hulls are by no means self-bailing boats if you describe that as a dry floor with water only in the lower sumps. Once they take on a couple of inches of water they are, but that is only a workable solution for a short period of time when excessive rain is anticipated. In almost all mooring/docking conditions, the boats need a functioning bilge pump. When the boat is nearby and can be tended to about once a week, I highly recommend the Rule 500 GPH auto sensing pump, since it's small and compact in the sump. It needs to be operated though an overriding on-off switch, so that when no bilge pump activity is needed, it can be turned off. The sensing function will not run down a good battery. For reference, here is my installation of that particular pump: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Montauk%2017/?action=view& current=Scan_Pic0008.jpg If the boat is left for long periods of time, then a mechanical float switch installation can be a little better solution to avoid the continuous sensing.
jtms	posted 08-29-2012 04:39 PM ET (US) Thanks LHG. That is actually the pump that I have but in the oval shape. It has performed well until recently and I plan on getting another one. I keep my boat in the water all the time and haven't had the time to pull it out or to replace the bilge. I am just trying to figure out a temporary plan to get through the week so I can put a new pump in. Unfortunatley, we had 8 inches of rain yesterday and are expecting 4-8 inches tonight. I pulled the plug as so many suggested and I have had 3 neighbors call me (one bailed the boat for me) to tell me my boat was sinking. Maybe others have better experiences, but I will likely drain the boat and put the plug back in. If it rains a lot I will plan on bailing her again in the morning. Frankly, I find the manual (not my manual b/c it didn't state to remove the plug) not to be accurate and a bit comical. The fact that Boston Whaler would advise you to pull the plug and promise "that water will not exceed your batteries or fuel tank" as an acceptable solution is beyond me. Then they state that the water will quickly disperse once underway. The boat is so unstable that I would not consider running the boat to disperse the water and would think this would be quite dangerous.
prj	posted 08-29-2012 05:28 PM ET (US) Your description of the amount of water taken on with the plug pulled, in a 2001 Montauk sounds a bit higher than I would expect (3 - 4 inches over the entire boat). Do you have it heavily laden with gear or fuel or whatnot? Someone else with that model (is this still the classic hull?) should be able to definitively advise regarding the amount of water taken on with the plug pulled.
gnr	posted 08-29-2012 06:00 PM ET (US) My 17 Guardian will take on water maybe an inch deep right in front of the splash well. Depending on conditions it may extend in ever shallowing fashion, four or five feet forward of the splash well. This with the 88 spl, a 5HP kicker, two downriggers, two batteries a couple coolers and often a fat fishing buddy near the transom. A couple trips ago I trolled for a few hours without the plug in and didn't even notice it. It was a rough day and we were taking an occasional one over the bow which I occasionally cleared with the pump. Didn't notice anything unusual until I was idling in the calm near the launch waiting for the tow vehicle to be brought over. No water when I dropped my buddy at the dock but a couple minutes later when I was stowing things there was water. Sure enough the plug was dangling from the chain when I pulled the boat. I wouldn't hesitate to leave my 17 in the water with the plug pulled.
jimh	posted 08-29-2012 09:21 PM ET (US) Your MONTAUK must be waterlogged or extremely heavily loaded. Your experience seems at odds with the factory instructions and other owners. The neighbors who were bailing your MONTAUK must have become tired when the water level never changed due to the open hull drains.
jimh	posted 08-29-2012 09:22 PM ET (US) Also, if your neighbors stepped aboard to do the bailing, they just exacerbated the problem instead of helped it.
6992WHALER	posted 08-30-2012 10:59 AM ET (US) I agree something does not sound right. Yesterday I spilled some gas on the deck in front of the pilot seat on my 1966 Sakonnet. I did not have a bucket with me so while I drifted in the middle of the lake as the kids swam, I pulled the drain plug. It took one kid my 60 pond dog and myself moving back and forth from starboard to port to get enough water to just rinse the deck in front of the pilot seat. If we just sat there the water stopped well behind the pilot seat. I would not say that the 16/17 hull fills up with a couple inches of water. The water stops 3 feet from the stern. The amount of weight in the boat will change this. I had 6 gallons of gas and a battery in the stern, with 9 more gallons midships, and I have a wood casting platform installed in the bow. Also on board one 13 year old girl, one 60 pound dog and one 180 pound guy. When the rain stops and you get everything back to normal, take a picture of the boat in the water. It would be interesting to see the location of the waterline on your boat.
jtms	posted 08-30-2012 11:15 AM ET (US) Thanks for all of the responses. I pulled the boat out of the water this morning because I wasn't satisfied having 3-4 inches of water in my boat (saltwater). I'll definitely take a pic once I get her back at the slip. I have two batteries, around 15 gallons of gas, and the usual miscellaneous gear on board. I would not say the boat is heavily loaded by any stretch. To answer a poster's question, the boat is a 2001 which is still a classic hull. How does a hull become water logged? This would imply that water is somehow seeping in through the boat while at the dock? I have had the boat for three years and it doesn't float any lower than it did when I got it. The boat it right in front of my house so I stare at her beautiful lines often and would have noticed the waterline changing. The gentleman that I purchased the boat from kept it in the garage and it was in pristine condition (10 out of 10). Maybe the initial flooding of the boat when the bilge failed and I still had the plug in somehow water logged the boat? The water did not enter the console, but it got very close.
prj	posted 08-30-2012 11:22 AM ET (US) Publish a photo of your boat floating static in the water as typically loaded. Try to include transom drain tubes or other known datum points in the image. We'll be able to provide some thoughts on how she's floating, high, low or as expected.
jcrwshw	posted 08-30-2012 06:15 PM ET (US) Pulling the plug on a 17' whaler should show an inch of water...maybe 2 inches if there's a heavy motor and battery. I've sunk my 15' to show my friends how easy things can be when you own a whaler... 20min later the boat was floating high and dry without a pump or a bailing bucket...amazing. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G2DesBpZqzw/R4R4Er-UQUI/AAAAAAAAA4Y/ B2k7-vGC-Z4/s1160/sinkingwhaler2.jpg
ScooterCO	posted 08-31-2012 04:31 PM ET (US) I have a 99 montauk with a yamaha 4 stroke and the factory rear seat. It always has water in the splash well of aprox 1 1/2 inches when looking at it from inside the boat. This is several inchs above the floor height, so if I were to pull the drain plug the boat would fill with several inches of water. What you are describing sounds right to me. Fyi, the rule pump you have is known for clogging up and the float sticking. Take the base off and clean it. It might be just fine.