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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area Conquest 235 and 255 Dropped From Boston Whaler Website
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Author | Topic: Conquest 235 and 255 Dropped From Boston Whaler Website |
K Albus |
posted 10-13-2012 11:51 PM ET (US)
It appears that the Conquest 235 and 255 models have been dropped from the Boston Whaler line-up. |
lizard |
posted 10-14-2012 12:16 AM ET (US)
It may not be financially ad(Vantage)ous to have 3 lines in that length of boat-Outrage, Conquest and Vantage. |
K Albus |
posted 10-14-2012 12:20 AM ET (US)
Whaler's smallest cabin-boat is now the Conquest 285, which has a starting price north of $192,000. |
macfam |
posted 10-14-2012 07:21 AM ET (US)
Here in the Northeast, Grady-White owns that market segment. |
jimh |
posted 10-14-2012 08:35 AM ET (US)
The 235 CONQUEST was the last trailerable cabin boat in the Boston Whaler line that did not need an over-wide permit to get on the highway. |
Mambo Minnow |
posted 10-14-2012 09:09 AM ET (US)
Thanks for posting, as I noticed that too and did not believe my eyes. I speculate it is reflective of the fact that in bad economic times, the large offshore boats and the smaller skiffs sell best. I do not know why Whaler lacks commitment to this size, as I agree the trailerable 21 to 23-foot cuddy cabin or express is a popular model in the Northeast, Northwest and Great Lakes. The Grady White 208 Adventure was the boat my Dad and I lusted after when Whaler eliminated the Revenge series. Since the Revenge series, Whaler has introduced and removed after a few years three models: Conquest 21, Eastport or Conquest 205, and Conquest 235. The resale value of these three models just went up. I will keep my Conquest 21 and re-power it. |
Buckda |
posted 10-14-2012 09:27 AM ET (US)
Kevin--I wonder if dealerships were aware of that fact ahead of time, and that is why you could not find a 235 Conquest to see or sea trial when you were looking last year? It appears that they've simply surrendered that portion of the market to other builders at this time. I imagine in that size range, many buyers are price sensitive, but with Brunswick exiting the small cruiser market with their Bayliner brand as well, it seems to be a larger strategic shift. |
Buoy |
posted 10-14-2012 10:49 AM ET (US)
The 235 and 255 Conquests had respectable runs, eight and eleven years respectively. Boston Whaler has been investing in and rolling out new models consistently for the past few years, perhaps this is just the first step in designing a small cabin model in alignment with the 285 Conquest design. A dealer told me that it's extremely challenging for Boston Whaler to compete in this space due to the level flotation design, that much more mass of boat is needed to provide x amount of interior space. The more engineering minded folks on this site could weigh in as to the merit of this assertion. The 235 Conquests seem to be holding their value well. The 2006 235 Conquest nicely equipped (hardtop, electronics package, fishing package) was advertised at the NY boat show for $75k. Seven years later you'd be pressed to find a similarly equipped 235 Conquest for less than $45k. I know from experience, it took me a full year of shopping this site and many others to locate my current 235 Conquest. |
K Albus |
posted 10-14-2012 10:54 AM ET (US)
Pursuit has also stopped offering the 235 Offshore. Late model used Conquest 235s and Offshore 235s are hard to come by. I'm glad I got my boat when I did. |
martyn1075 |
posted 10-14-2012 02:46 PM ET (US)
So instead of competing with Grady they again are just giving the market up in the 20-23-25 cuddy. My feeling is Boston Whaler is getting beaten up a bit. Of course they have their bread and butter and those are and have always been the Montauk and Outrage models, but so many changes over the years imo is like trying too hard and far too drastic the changes we have seen. Look at Grady very few changes over the years little tweaks here and there but overall the same boat 25 years ago is still offered thats called identity branding. They also stole and made a whole image off of that beautiful desert tan color when it was once again given away by a company (Whaler) that was the innovator in its class. I think our classics are just that "classic" timeless and the more and more Boston Whaler changes the more I feel I have picked the best boat in the world at a fraction of the cost. Martyn |
David Pendleton |
posted 10-14-2012 06:04 PM ET (US)
Hmmm. So, did my 230 Conquest just double in value? :) |
pete r |
posted 10-14-2012 07:22 PM ET (US)
I got fantastic value buying my 21' Conquest a couple of years ago. The GFC and fuel prices scared a few people off. At the time I couldn't help thinking this sort of boat was going to be desirable again once technology improves their fuel economy in both SUV tow vehicles and outboard motors. |
jimh |
posted 10-14-2012 10:46 PM ET (US)
Buoy writes:
quote: The dealer is correct. A Boston Whaler Unibond hull is really a double-bottom hull. The space between the outer bottom and the inner bottom becomes unusable interior space. The reserve buoyancy in a double-bottom hull is created because the available useful interior volume is reduced to the point that even if all of that remaining useful interior volume were filled with water, the buoyancy of the hull will support the weight and the boat will still be afloat because water is kept out of the volume used for the double bottom. Boston Whaler also takes care that the distribution of the space is such that the boat still floats on a level trim, too. The space used for the double bottom could be filled with just air, but Boston Whaler fills it with foam to create strength in the hull construction--that has been their special technique since day-one of Boston Whaler boats. After they consume a considerable volume of the hull with the double-bottom construction and fill that space with foam, the available interior in the hull that remains has less volume available for useful space, such as berths, storage, galley, and so on. Boston Whaler also has to develop designs for their outer and inner hulls that permit them to become foam filled in the manner necessary to create the Unibond hull. They must design the space so that it can be filled with foam without creating voids or air pockets. This is another challenge facing Boston Whaler in the design of their larger boats with more complex interior molds |
jimh |
posted 10-14-2012 10:49 PM ET (US)
By the way, it is hard for me to believe the 235 CONQUEST has been in production for [seven] years. I visited the factory in 2005 at the time the boat was being introduced, and I had a chance to crawl around on the first hull in the series. I really liked the boat because it was a nice cabin boat, could be trailered without a $60,000 truck, and was not over-wide on the highway. If that was [seven] years ago it seems like only yesterday! |
martyn1075 |
posted 10-15-2012 12:35 AM ET (US)
I have often thought to myself if there was one newer Boston Whaler boat that I would downsize to it would be the 230. Now they will be harder to find if they have dropped them for good. There direction continues to puzzle me when they produce and drop models like a bad habit. Perhaps they will reintroduce a whole new line of smaller walkarounds and bring them back with the desert tan!! I know the Eastport was not a great seller but I still see a tremendous market for Whaler to bring a 21 foot Walkaround but keep it under 100k. |
Peter |
posted 10-15-2012 07:08 AM ET (US)
I think Whaler has always had a difficult time selling cabin boats 25 feet and below for at least a couple of reasons: 1. Very high price relative to the class 2. Small cabin space relative to the class I remember some years ago at a boat show taking a close look at the Conquest 21 and finding that the V berths were short (the berths seemed hardly more than 6 feet long) and the cabin itself felt very crampt. At the time I owned a Revenge 22 Walk-Thru and the Revenge cabin felt quite spacious in comparison. |
jimh |
posted 10-15-2012 09:02 AM ET (US)
Boston Whaler could have a new cabin boat if they took their 230 VANTAGE and covered the open foredeck with a cabin top and raised the helm location a few inches. |
jimh |
posted 10-15-2012 09:16 AM ET (US)
ASIDE to Kevin--That is most curious that Pursuit has also stopped making their 235 OFFSHORE, a boat very similar is size and price to the 235 CONQUEST. The correspondence is very odd. You have to wonder if both Whaler and Pursuit had the same motives. |
Peter |
posted 10-15-2012 10:05 AM ET (US)
A few years ago (probably around 2007) I looked at the Pursuit 235 Denali LS (later renamed 235 Offshore) at the local boat show. I really liked the layout of the boat (as a runabout/cruiser). Quality was top notch. The one I looked at had the hard top option which I considered essential. What I did not like about it was the price. The discounted boat show price at the time was about $95,000. I think that pricing, even back in the boom years, plus not having easy 360 degree fishing access was an obstacle to its long term success. |
hauptjm |
posted 10-15-2012 11:30 AM ET (US)
Pursuit is a boat line I've followed for quite some time. I have found them to be very high quality, very knowledgable from a sales support system and well designed, useful boats. With that said, if they (Pursuit) and Whaler (another company I admire) have made the exit from this market segment, something must be "up." Or, "down" as it were: like sales. I find it interesting that the price of some boat lines do not "seem" to go up commensurately with the next or succeedingly larger sized vessel(s) in that line. The 25ft. or 28ft. vessel in the same line of the 23ft. may "only" be a slight premium that justifies a larger format. For the most part, I think we all want the most boat for our money. If a 23ft. Offshore cost $95,000 and the 25ft. Offshore cost $115,000, as a buyer in this market segment, I may just move up in size. If enough buyers do this, the 23ft. Offshore model is eliminated. Conversely, at what point does the equation entail the thought of "that may be too much boat for me?" That may exist between the 25ft. and 28ft. purchase points. A 28ft. power boat, is a very large powerboat for most folks. Generally, when someone buys a boat this size, they're looking for a larger boat. In fact, it may be the lead-in to an even larger boat down-the-line. In that vein, what would be "too big" a boat for you? |
jimh |
posted 10-15-2012 11:41 AM ET (US)
For me, right now, a "too-big" boat is one that I cannot tow with my current truck (rated for 7,000-lbs towing). I think a 235 CONQUEST would have been right on the limit for me. The next step larger in boat size also usually means going to twin engines, and that usually adds substantially to the cost of acquisition and ownership. |
martyn1075 |
posted 10-15-2012 02:03 PM ET (US)
Maybe Boston Whaler is accurate that the market for small cabin cuddies are at an all time low. However they would need to do their due diligence with their competitors for example Grady White and see how their boats in the same range are doing. IMO the Whaler cuddies minus a few like the 230 have been a disappointment. They have to take some of the blame you cannot put out a boat that is missing key features only to be found on the next two models up as well offer less curb appeal then their competitors all at the same time ask TOP dollar for it. I think that is where they have failed over the years in this specific area and others have picked up the slack. Again I go back buyers aren't that dumb Whalers stamp of identification in this case has been missing for too long. The 230 is a nice one but you just can't win everyone back with one change and then just take it away like they seem to have done again! Martyn |
Buoy |
posted 10-15-2012 02:10 PM ET (US)
"Too Big" for me usually comes down to the draft. Like many other intercoastal communities, Long Island has plently of skinny water which potentially limits access to activities such as clamming or pulling up to the beach. It still amazes me that the 235 Conquest only draws 15" of water, compared to most 23' cabin models which draw closer to 20". To my knowledge, Boston Whaler has never marketed this competitive differentiator, that 5" difference can be very significant if you find yourself distracted on an outgoing tide. "Too Small" for me is all about the cockpit space, not so much the cabin size. I find the 205 Conquest a very attractive boat, I opted for the 235 Conquest because the deck space is significantly larger. For those of us in the North, enough cannot be said for the weather protection of a cabin boat. The enclosed structure with a windshield height that measures above your shoulders is a must have thru Memorial Day and post Labor day. Heck, even on those cool summer days it's a bonus to have that weather protection while cruising in wet bathing suits and towels. |
martyn1075 |
posted 10-15-2012 02:53 PM ET (US)
I also like the in deck fish or storage lockers, extremely useful. The 205 left way too much out imo that the 230 nicely made up for but it did force the hand of the buyer to move up and pay out way more money. Martyn |
tom976 |
posted 10-16-2012 03:36 PM ET (US)
I have been considering selling my 230 conquest. Good news for me. Just have to think about trying to sell her now or in the spring. I have the boat in Oceanside, NY. No problems with taking her to the beach and throwing a few anchors out. Kids loved it. |
WhalerAce |
posted 10-17-2012 02:49 PM ET (US)
jimh says, "Boston Whaler could have a new cabin boat if they took their 230 VANTAGE and covered the open foredeck with a cabin top and raised the helm location a few inches." I think that would be called a Temptation II. Just kidding, --- WhalerAce |
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