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Author Topic:   Gasoline Outboard Prices should Be Down

egres posted 05-25-2013 07:48 AM ET (US)
Seems to me that the price of fuel has been documented to be on the rise..And this with no other logical cause others then to gouge the addicted fuel consumers.
Friends of mine have up to four quads as all family members do enjoy this kind of outings.They love to see him pulling at the pump.
Boating with the latest of outboard offerings have done actually absolutely nothing to diminish the"budgeted" cash spent on fuels.
To use less, to go slower, to skip the moorage fees have all being considered when you have a set number to be spent on fuel and this lifestyle.
Next will the sharing of expenses will be done with groups having the same issues and still managing to use the boat as it should be done.
Cars are getting more economical on fuel but will seems small and not as safe as their larger and heavier predecessors.
I would enjoy seeing the newest 2014 line of Outboard being able to basically cut their consumption by at least half from those known and latest that you and I have owned..
Not an unusual request since the the record has shown us that fuel will NOT be. taking a retrograde trend and to cost less unless massive cuts in consumption across the land and water does occur
A sustained effort globe wise in this direction would have a way to see gasoline finding a trickling but steadily downward trend.
Fat chance on that as it seems that human nature has proven to be rather unreasonable, undisciplined and rather mercenarial in it's ways of dealing with just about anything of Global importance these days.
The alternative to these ever increasing gas prices should be either to buy these favorite toys as in outboard, when they are able once again to give us GREAT FUEL EFFICIENCY as in MPG and still stay competitive in sale despite Ridiculously HFP(s)
The now likely alternative would logically be to see the price of those outboards fall by 60 to 75 percent as they clearly can't economically deliver and are obsoleted by design from the factories.
Could be grand time to wake up and look at the big picture.
Or..Be content in eventually have to only be washing and waxing the boat every week end without taking it out of the driveway.
And admiring of how darn good and well kept that Whaler looks week after week after week on these lovely sunny week ends...used to be spend on the water.
Is fuel outrageously overpriced? Only the Sheiks from the Emirates would say no.
The Outboards Manufacturers have failed to muzzle these vital factors threatening their industry and will have to adapt or perish.The question will remain for us that.
In regard to economy, fuel consumption, and global operational costs
Should be buy "this" obsolete and high price OBRD?
Or not?

Spuds posted 05-30-2013 02:22 PM ET (US)
Most current four strokes have more than 50% increase in fuel efficiency.
Global energy demand is predicted to rise 40% by 2025. I can tell you that the world economy will not stand by and let energy prices skyrocket as a result.
Not sure of your point.
Binkster posted 05-30-2013 04:29 PM ET (US)
Serge, after reading your rambling fairly senseless post, the only conclusion I can come to is you have been away somewhere for a long, long time.
Things have changed and so have outboard motors. I have a 1961 75hp Evinrude V4 outboard that I run at the AOMCI meets. It will run through a 6 gallon tank of gas in a heartbeat. An outboard like that is useless for normal boating. Modern outboards, 4 strokes have come a long way, and so has the modern automobile. I suggest you get an electric car and a row boat.
rich
egres posted 05-31-2013 05:03 PM ET (US)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dvLfuXUk8
egres posted 06-04-2013 07:31 AM ET (US)
Well I swear that hole Binky here did scare the Bejesus out of me with this near incredible report of six gallons burned in an heartbeat.
The point that may still somehow be eluding you Binky will reside in the fact that even the very latest of four strokes OBR s are still consuming large amounts of exorbitant fuels. It will be granted that they are a "Big" improvement fuel wise on the 2 strokes...
But then again the ETEC 2stroke direct fuel injection is a step in the right direction as a lighter and more compact O/B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuxinZMSetc
I personally like the words fuel injected,lighter and compact when put together describing an ideal outboard for my needs.
One of the first steps taken over a long road leading to normal and affordable carburant for our essential boating pleasures.
I will remain boyant about what the manufacturers will come up with next..as offerings to the latest demands of increasing fuel efficiency by another 30% over the very latest 4 strokes models.
Plenty of money to be made if they do deliver and I am positive that they will not let us down.
Tohsgib posted 06-04-2013 12:06 PM ET (US)
Serge you need to do some research and a study in physics as your "wishes" are not possible in theory...yet. An outboard is way different than a car. A car can get better mileage by aerodynamics, tire resistance, engine and injection technology, weight loss, etc. A small gain in efficiency in a car can amount to a considerable gain in mileage. This is why direct injection in cars is paying off due to higher costs but better efficiency. An outboard is under tremendous strain 85% of the time. Putting direct injection on an outboard might mean .5gph less at cruise which is not worth the extra thousands of dollars to manufacture it. There are no benefits(yet) to massaging an outboard to get slightly better economy when that economy won't be seen by the owner.
Ask yourself this: Why does a 450hp Diesel 18 Wheeler that weighs 65,000lbs loaded get 6-7mpg and a boat that weighs 15,000 with the same engine gets less than 2. You know the answer but now you know why your question is not obtainable.
egres posted 06-04-2013 06:39 PM ET (US)
Hey Nick,
My wish as you put it is already on the "Must Do" project and planning
from most combustion engine manufacturers.
As an example.
The Wankel is one of the interesting development in combustion engine that found an important role in some water crafts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
The future will be full of innovations and surprises in regard to the newest and most economical for outboard manufacturers.
Being unable to control fuel prices unless public demand sharply drops,the marine outboard manufacturers will strive to offer a most economical and affordable product.
The price tag will be more reasonable but longevity may suffer/
After all for the business sense of it
It will always be more profitable to sell billions of "cheaper"units instead of more expensive and much fewer examples of OBRs costing much more to run.
It will be seen as a do or die situation for the marine branches representing the stockholders.
Do not lose faith
Plenty of money to be made yet.
egres posted 06-06-2013 08:11 PM ET (US)
Let us not forget about what is the very cheapest power to generate..(so far)
Steam...
Here is the Parsons steam turbine that made a lot of waves when it came out way back then.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=Parson+steam+turbines&tbm=isch&tbo=u& source=univ&sa=X&ei=bSKxUYqmK6HViwKkpoHIAw&ved=0CFcQsAQ&biw=1004& bih=622#tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Parsons+steam+turbines+boat+photos&oq=Parsons+ steam+turbines+boat+photos&gs_l=img.3...269445.278275.0.279196.13.13.0. 0.0.0.214.948.12j0j1.13.0...0.0...1c.1.16.img.c2EFL5EHSL8&bav=on.2,or. r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.cGE&fp=755cb1f608395f79&biw=1004&bih=622
Modernization of the principle could easily be applied to today's boating needs.
http://www.houseofdavid.ca/parsons.htm#STEAM_TURBINE
Tohsgib posted 06-06-2013 10:09 PM ET (US)
Seriously???
A 80CID(or88) in a 1983 or so RX7 was horrible at 18mpg from a small displacement engine. A 305 Z28 got better. Sure it made great HP for the CID but considering it is smaller than my Harley in CIDS.....horrible.
Binkster posted 06-07-2013 07:36 AM ET (US)
Forgot about the RX7, I had a first generation car, a 1974. It had alot of power for a small rotary engine but got about 14mpg. Mazda replaced the engine free at about 40,000 miles when it blew. When the oil embargo hit in the late '70s gas was still cheap but hard to come by and didn't last long in that car. I sold it and bought a Pontiac V8 that got better gas mileage.
rich
egres posted 06-07-2013 04:54 PM ET (US)
The Wenkel is just another example of what can be done as innovation for internal combustion engines
If improvements on the principle would have been yearly done, the motors would still be widely seen today.
In any event I came across this interesting bit of info that may be useful to a lot of us here on the road and possibly on the water also.
http://hypermiling.com/
Might as well give it a read as gas is only getting more expensive every day.
egres posted 06-08-2013 06:30 PM ET (US)
And for those that are a bit more inquisitive
I have added some interesting facts.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/09/oh-20120926.html
If cheap energy of this sort can be offered to buyers,some if not all of capitals invested in the oil may just be at a "loss"

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Author	Topic: Gasoline Outboard Prices should Be Down
egres	posted 05-25-2013 07:48 AM ET (US) Seems to me that the price of fuel has been documented to be on the rise..And this with no other logical cause others then to gouge the addicted fuel consumers. Friends of mine have up to four quads as all family members do enjoy this kind of outings.They love to see him pulling at the pump. Boating with the latest of outboard offerings have done actually absolutely nothing to diminish the"budgeted" cash spent on fuels. To use less, to go slower, to skip the moorage fees have all being considered when you have a set number to be spent on fuel and this lifestyle. Next will the sharing of expenses will be done with groups having the same issues and still managing to use the boat as it should be done. Cars are getting more economical on fuel but will seems small and not as safe as their larger and heavier predecessors. I would enjoy seeing the newest 2014 line of Outboard being able to basically cut their consumption by at least half from those known and latest that you and I have owned.. Not an unusual request since the the record has shown us that fuel will NOT be. taking a retrograde trend and to cost less unless massive cuts in consumption across the land and water does occur A sustained effort globe wise in this direction would have a way to see gasoline finding a trickling but steadily downward trend. Fat chance on that as it seems that human nature has proven to be rather unreasonable, undisciplined and rather mercenarial in it's ways of dealing with just about anything of Global importance these days. The alternative to these ever increasing gas prices should be either to buy these favorite toys as in outboard, when they are able once again to give us GREAT FUEL EFFICIENCY as in MPG and still stay competitive in sale despite Ridiculously HFP(s) The now likely alternative would logically be to see the price of those outboards fall by 60 to 75 percent as they clearly can't economically deliver and are obsoleted by design from the factories. Could be grand time to wake up and look at the big picture. Or..Be content in eventually have to only be washing and waxing the boat every week end without taking it out of the driveway. And admiring of how darn good and well kept that Whaler looks week after week after week on these lovely sunny week ends...used to be spend on the water. Is fuel outrageously overpriced? Only the Sheiks from the Emirates would say no. The Outboards Manufacturers have failed to muzzle these vital factors threatening their industry and will have to adapt or perish.The question will remain for us that. In regard to economy, fuel consumption, and global operational costs Should be buy "this" obsolete and high price OBRD? Or not?
Spuds	posted 05-30-2013 02:22 PM ET (US) Most current four strokes have more than 50% increase in fuel efficiency. Global energy demand is predicted to rise 40% by 2025. I can tell you that the world economy will not stand by and let energy prices skyrocket as a result. Not sure of your point.
Binkster	posted 05-30-2013 04:29 PM ET (US) Serge, after reading your rambling fairly senseless post, the only conclusion I can come to is you have been away somewhere for a long, long time. Things have changed and so have outboard motors. I have a 1961 75hp Evinrude V4 outboard that I run at the AOMCI meets. It will run through a 6 gallon tank of gas in a heartbeat. An outboard like that is useless for normal boating. Modern outboards, 4 strokes have come a long way, and so has the modern automobile. I suggest you get an electric car and a row boat. rich
egres	posted 05-31-2013 05:03 PM ET (US) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dvLfuXUk8
egres	posted 06-04-2013 07:31 AM ET (US) Well I swear that hole Binky here did scare the Bejesus out of me with this near incredible report of six gallons burned in an heartbeat. The point that may still somehow be eluding you Binky will reside in the fact that even the very latest of four strokes OBR s are still consuming large amounts of exorbitant fuels. It will be granted that they are a "Big" improvement fuel wise on the 2 strokes... But then again the ETEC 2stroke direct fuel injection is a step in the right direction as a lighter and more compact O/B http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuxinZMSetc I personally like the words fuel injected,lighter and compact when put together describing an ideal outboard for my needs. One of the first steps taken over a long road leading to normal and affordable carburant for our essential boating pleasures. I will remain boyant about what the manufacturers will come up with next..as offerings to the latest demands of increasing fuel efficiency by another 30% over the very latest 4 strokes models. Plenty of money to be made if they do deliver and I am positive that they will not let us down.
Tohsgib	posted 06-04-2013 12:06 PM ET (US) Serge you need to do some research and a study in physics as your "wishes" are not possible in theory...yet. An outboard is way different than a car. A car can get better mileage by aerodynamics, tire resistance, engine and injection technology, weight loss, etc. A small gain in efficiency in a car can amount to a considerable gain in mileage. This is why direct injection in cars is paying off due to higher costs but better efficiency. An outboard is under tremendous strain 85% of the time. Putting direct injection on an outboard might mean .5gph less at cruise which is not worth the extra thousands of dollars to manufacture it. There are no benefits(yet) to massaging an outboard to get slightly better economy when that economy won't be seen by the owner. Ask yourself this: Why does a 450hp Diesel 18 Wheeler that weighs 65,000lbs loaded get 6-7mpg and a boat that weighs 15,000 with the same engine gets less than 2. You know the answer but now you know why your question is not obtainable.
egres	posted 06-04-2013 06:39 PM ET (US) Hey Nick, My wish as you put it is already on the "Must Do" project and planning from most combustion engine manufacturers. As an example. The Wankel is one of the interesting development in combustion engine that found an important role in some water crafts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine The future will be full of innovations and surprises in regard to the newest and most economical for outboard manufacturers. Being unable to control fuel prices unless public demand sharply drops,the marine outboard manufacturers will strive to offer a most economical and affordable product. The price tag will be more reasonable but longevity may suffer/ After all for the business sense of it It will always be more profitable to sell billions of "cheaper"units instead of more expensive and much fewer examples of OBRs costing much more to run. It will be seen as a do or die situation for the marine branches representing the stockholders. Do not lose faith Plenty of money to be made yet.
egres	posted 06-06-2013 08:11 PM ET (US) Let us not forget about what is the very cheapest power to generate..(so far) Steam... Here is the Parsons steam turbine that made a lot of waves when it came out way back then. http://www.google.ca/search?q=Parson+steam+turbines&tbm=isch&tbo=u& source=univ&sa=X&ei=bSKxUYqmK6HViwKkpoHIAw&ved=0CFcQsAQ&biw=1004& bih=622#tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Parsons+steam+turbines+boat+photos&oq=Parsons+ steam+turbines+boat+photos&gs_l=img.3...269445.278275.0.279196.13.13.0. 0.0.0.214.948.12j0j1.13.0...0.0...1c.1.16.img.c2EFL5EHSL8&bav=on.2,or. r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.cGE&fp=755cb1f608395f79&biw=1004&bih=622 Modernization of the principle could easily be applied to today's boating needs. http://www.houseofdavid.ca/parsons.htm#STEAM_TURBINE
Tohsgib	posted 06-06-2013 10:09 PM ET (US) Seriously??? A 80CID(or88) in a 1983 or so RX7 was horrible at 18mpg from a small displacement engine. A 305 Z28 got better. Sure it made great HP for the CID but considering it is smaller than my Harley in CIDS.....horrible.
Binkster	posted 06-07-2013 07:36 AM ET (US) Forgot about the RX7, I had a first generation car, a 1974. It had alot of power for a small rotary engine but got about 14mpg. Mazda replaced the engine free at about 40,000 miles when it blew. When the oil embargo hit in the late '70s gas was still cheap but hard to come by and didn't last long in that car. I sold it and bought a Pontiac V8 that got better gas mileage. rich
egres	posted 06-07-2013 04:54 PM ET (US) The Wenkel is just another example of what can be done as innovation for internal combustion engines If improvements on the principle would have been yearly done, the motors would still be widely seen today. In any event I came across this interesting bit of info that may be useful to a lot of us here on the road and possibly on the water also. http://hypermiling.com/ Might as well give it a read as gas is only getting more expensive every day.
egres	posted 06-08-2013 06:30 PM ET (US) And for those that are a bit more inquisitive I have added some interesting facts. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/09/oh-20120926.html If cheap energy of this sort can be offered to buyers,some if not all of capitals invested in the oil may just be at a "loss"