Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Marketplace
|Author||Topic: Outrage 17|
posted 04-22-2008 10:21 PM ET (US)
I have an '83 Montauk and am considering a '92 Outrage 17. What is the difference? Specifically length, width, draft, weight, but most especially performance. My Montauk is a beautiful ride until the water gets choppy. Thanks for your help.
posted 04-23-2008 08:19 AM ET (US)
I moved up from a 1989 Newtauk to a 1991 17' Outrage and never looked back. Some of the pros for the Outrage are its a little wider, heavier and had the modified V hull so it rides smoother in the chop. It had a 32 gallon internal fuel tank, jump seats in the rear and a "storage unit" between the two rear seats. I call it a storage unit because there are many uses for that space. I've seen people plumb that area for a livewell while others use it for storage. I currently use mine for a fish box, throw in a bag of ice and pray for fish to come. You also have the larger console with the electronics/storage box on top, which also is a nice feature. Also, it's rated for 120hp while the Montauk is only at 100hp.
Some of the pros for the Montauk, it's a little lighter. There's no fuel tank to maintain or worry about leaking. It's a little more stable but with all smaller hulls, you have storage issues.
Both boats will be able to do the same things, the Outrage, with its higher gunnels and V-hull will keep you drier and pound less, but the Montauk would be able to go to the same places.
Good luck, I believe there's a forum member who has a picture of both boats side-by-side.
posted 04-23-2008 08:31 AM ET (US)
Here's that picture, it's from Phil's website.
posted 04-23-2008 10:09 AM ET (US)
Yes Dave's photo states allot. We own an Outrage I and are very happy. Even my best friend has one and it really performs like a much bigger boat the 17'. I feel the 13^ draft (same as the 22' Outrage's) and the internal fuel tank keeps the center of gravity low thus holding the water allot better in the chop.
With increasing fuel prices you want the best small boat possible....I we found it...
posted 04-23-2008 12:38 PM ET (US)
I too have a 17' outrage. It's a 1993 and I love it. I don't think you'll have any regrets buying one but make darn SURE the internal fuel tank does not leak. I would spend the money and have the tank pressure tested. I think a radiator shop could do that by plugging the hoses and without removing the tank. The pressure test won't guarantee you have a sound tank but it will tell you if you have an existing leaks.
Even if the tank has a leak I would consider buying the boat but negotiate the price accordingly. My tank cost about $600 to replace including the cost of the tank, fuel/water seperator, paint, foam, sealer, hoses, connector & clamps plus a lot of my labor.
To see pictures of the tank both in and out of the boat do a search on my user name "cindalyn".
|Casco Bay Outrage||
posted 04-23-2008 01:09 PM ET (US)
Dave posted the photo I have comparing the two hulls.
I moved up from a 1987 Montauk to the Outrage 17 I for:
-better handling in snotty conditions
For it's size, I think this model is the best you can get.
It has the near/offshore hull
Being that it was only produced from 1990-1995, it is slightly rare and has a bit of cashe.
Here are more photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/CascoBayOutrage/1991Outrage17I
C B O
posted 04-23-2008 08:36 PM ET (US)
I agree with the comments on the Outrage 17 being a better ride and more room than a Montauk. I have had both. I also would like to offer another option if you are really interested in moving up but want to stay in the 17 size - the 17 Outrage II. It is a great boat for rough water or shallows and has higher freeboard, deeper V hull and more storage than the earlier 17 Outrage I. It is without a doubt the best riding 17 I have ever been in and seems huge in comparrison to the other 17's. It will probably cost you more than the Outrage I. I believe they were made between 1996-2000. If you find one check it out! I was told by a Whaler dealer recently that they may be bringing them back into production as a lot of people have been requesting it. Good luck with whatever you decide on, you can't go wrong as long as it's a whaler ... Brian
posted 04-23-2008 09:32 PM ET (US)
I've owned a Montauk, Outrage 17-1, and currently an Outrage 17-2.
The Outrage 17-2 isn't even in the same class as the other 2. It has 8" more beam, nearly 700# more displacement, carries almost twice the fuel as the 17-1, and takes a 25" engine. The downside is that towing and operating the 17-2 costs (alot) more money and fuel.
If you really want to move up from the Montauk, either the Outrage 17-1 or Outrage17-2 is a good candidate, but you need to decide how much of a step up you want to make.
posted 04-23-2008 11:16 PM ET (US)
I've been very happy with my '95 Outrage 17. Just a great boat for it's size and I think it looks good too with it's classic Whaler lines and tan gel coat. As with any Whaler (or any other boat for that matter), be aware of it's condition. I work in a boat shop and have done a LOT of work to a '91 Outrage 17 this winter ranging from a new fuel tank to new wood in the gunwale cap. Right now it's in the shop sitting next to my '95 and it's easy to tell which one has lead a hard life. If it's in good shape and you buy it, I highly recommend grabbing a tube of caulk and some screw drivers and removing and re sealing ANY screw you can get to on the boat. Many were poorly sealed or not sealed at all at the factory in that '91 possibly allowing water into the hull. Also seriously consider replacing your thru hull drains. I have yet to remove one from a Whaler that *didn't* come out wet :( One was the bilge drain in an '03 Montauk! I currently have the bilge drain out of my '95 and I'm working on drying the hole so I can install the new drain properly... Anyway, the Outrage 17-I is a fabulous boat for it's size. 3 years now and hundreds of hours and I still can't wait to get out on the water in it :)
posted 04-24-2008 02:03 AM ET (US)
CBO - Nice pics. How do you keep that engine so pristine?
posted 04-24-2008 01:58 PM ET (US)
I agree with Whalersailer, and in my opinion, the Outrage II (made in years 1996 to 1999) is a far superior boat to a Montauk or an Outrage I if you are most concerned with a better ride, higher gunnels for safety, more room, better comfort and keeping drier. Of course this makes the Outrage II a heavier boat that is less fuel efficient and not as easy to tow (although I think there is no difference in towing). If that bothers you than maybe the Outrage I is a better choice for you. they are both good boats but it depends on what you like/need.
Personally, I would take and Outrage II (1996-1999) over an Outrage I every time, but thats my opinion. I know many people who have previously owned an Outrage I and now own Outrage II. Perhaps one of them can provide a more comprehensive lists of the differences. I think DaveS is/was trying to sell his Outrage I to buy an Outrage II, so perhaps he provide some insight as well.
As far as price is concerned, you can buy a good condition 1996-1999 Outrage II in the $9,000 to $12,000 range and a good condition Outrage I in the $5,000 to $8,000 range.
posted 04-24-2008 04:06 PM ET (US)
Where exactly are these "good condition" Outrage 17-1's for 5,000 - 8,000? Where are the Outrage 17-2's for $9,000 - $12,000 to which you refer above?
When I was looking for my 17-1, I saw nothing but junk in your stated 17-1 price range. When looking for my 17-2, I saw a couple of prospects at the 12K point, but upon further digging, they all had potential issues. I drove 1,500 miles to get my 17-1 and 1,700 miles to get the 17-2, so I was not geographically limited in either case.
If you have a source or sources for these particular boats in "good condition" for the prices you stated, please share them with the group, as I'm sure there are many here who would be very interested in obtaining these boats in good condition at these prices.
posted 04-27-2008 09:59 AM ET (US)
Whalersailer.....I use to post many of these fair deal Outrage II's and Outrage I's for sale here in CW (mostly the ones that were too far for me to buy and flip). Unfortunately, JimH does not allow third party boat for sale postings anymore. Now, when I hear someone is looking for a particular boat I back channel them if I know of one or have one of my own for sale. Actually, it works pretty well that way because many jealous people were trying to sabotage my boat for sale listings here on CW.
posted 04-27-2008 10:06 AM ET (US)
There's no jealousy here, just a few honest folks identifying a shady, greasy, back door salesman who doesn't have the seeds to identify himself. He has to use "back-channel" so he doesn't give himself away. If you look at his responses to old for-sale threads, he shows his true colors very well. Not to be trusted. He even puts himself out there as knowing something about Whalers, which isn't true either.
posted 04-27-2008 01:05 PM ET (US)
So if they were too far away for you to buy and flip, that means you must not have been able to inspect any of these "good condition" boats personally. That's my point. While there may be a few of these that are advertised in the price ranges you describe, they are either "steals" which dissapear almost immediately (thus are priced below market), or they are not boats in "good condition."
Thanks for shedding some light on this.
posted 04-28-2008 11:45 AM ET (US)
The fact that I have inspected and bought many of these "good condition" boats in the NE and SE proves my point.
If it makes you feel better to assume that every boat I did not inspect was either in poor condition, or a once in a lifetime "steal", thats your perogative. Personally, I think your assumption is absurd, but thats my opinion.
posted 04-28-2008 01:45 PM ET (US)
OK, You win.
I'll just assume that you have been sending the original poster all of these good deals you are able to find.
Hopefully that's not absurd.
posted 04-28-2008 04:55 PM ET (US)
It is not my mission in life to find a boat for every person that is looking for one. People should take responsibility to look and find one on their own. If they look hard enough, they will get a fair deal and not overpay like so many of the Whaler enthusiasts do.
Let me show you how easy it is by posting a boat thats I know is for sale in Marco Island and is listed in Boattrader.com. Here is the sales ad:
"1994 BOSTON WHALER 17 OUTRAGE. Includes a 2002 Aluminum trailer but has been lift kept . Looks and runs great. 90 hp Evinrude with stainless steel prop. Includes: bimini top, console cover, full storage cover, fishfinder, vhf radio, flip helm seat, aft seats, lots of rod storage, circulating livewell, two coolers. A complete fishing package for only $6,595 including trailer".
This boat is for sale my a reputable marine sales company (Lowes Marine Sales) and I'm sure it is in "great" condition as advertised. Give Henry Lowe a call (239-642-3439) and tell him a "friend" referred you.
Now, there is a real life example of a very good condition Outrage 17-1 for $6,500...right in the middle of the range I told you they can be bought for. I know of a number of Outrage 17-2's in the $9,000 to $12,000 range too.
Just because you see advertised good condition Outrage 17-1's for over $8,000 and Outrage 17-2's for ridiculous amounts over $12,000 does not mean people are buying them and if they are.....they are overpaying (IMHO).
posted 04-28-2008 06:43 PM ET (US)
I do not see that ad on boat trader. Did it sell?
posted 04-29-2008 11:10 AM ET (US)
Give Henry Lowe a call at 239-642-3439. It was for sale for awhile, so it could have finally sold.
posted 04-29-2008 11:25 AM ET (US)
The ad was on trader yesterday, I saw it myself.
posted 04-29-2008 02:18 PM ET (US)
I thought that awhile ago jimh asked everyone that was not interested in buying a boat listed for sale to refrain from commenting on said boat,,the disrespect your showing to jimh is,,,,disrespectful,,
posted 04-29-2008 07:19 PM ET (US)
Back to our original question maybe?
The OR 17 is a somewhat rare and beautiful hull, really midway between the Montauk and OR 18 in several ways.
The older 17 and 18 Outrages are maybe the best ever, IMO.
With the smaller hull, I like the fact that you don't have to agonize about whether to power with a V-4 or go for advantages of 150-175 HP V-6. With todays fuel prices, this is even more critical, so with the slightly smaller and lighter 17 you can just use the V-4 and be satisfied.
Another difference that impressed me when I was seriously looking at this range is that the forward cockpit is smaller on the 17 and so I couldn't see creating a double-bunk setup there for camping onboard. On the 18 that's do-able. Don't think about these decisions too much, you can use one for now and then trade to another for later--that's what a lot of us do! Cheers, Bill
posted 04-29-2008 08:58 PM ET (US)
Deep, your absolutly correct....they were posted very clearly ..... disrespectful of the board and JImH.
Participants who have no real interest in buying an item offered for sale should avoid appending comments to notices of For-Sale which offer advice to the seller, criticism of the seller, or criticism of his merchandise, or in any way initiate discussions on these topics.
Please contact me by email if any further clarification is needed on this policy.
Further stated by JIm...
jimh posted 01-23-2008 10:18 PM ET (US)
posted 04-30-2008 12:27 AM ET (US)
thank you ,, i wasn't sure but i thought i had read it in here that jimh wanted like that,, the exact words escaped me ,^@^,,max
posted 04-30-2008 11:05 AM ET (US)
How about some cheese with that "wine"? Some people remain silent and are thought to be fools....others speak up and remove all doubt! LOL
To get back on topic, BillVT makes some very good points and I know both models are desirable and you will not have a problem selling to change boats if your selling price is within a reasonable range (see ablove)
posted 04-30-2008 11:44 AM ET (US)
I am confused
Wasn't the point of this thread to "discuss" the differences between the 17' outrage and montauk?
posted 04-30-2008 11:58 AM ET (US)
Yep, it was (at least the way I read it).
Looking back on this thread now, it probably shouldn't even be in the Marketplace, as nobody is offering an item for sale, nor is an individual asking if anyone has a specific item to purchase.
Interesting that the original poster hasn't come back to post again. Hopefully his questions about the relative differences in the models he asked about have been sufficiently answered.
posted 05-01-2008 09:46 PM ET (US)
He is looking for a Outrage II.
posted 05-01-2008 11:08 PM ET (US)
He didn't say he was looking for an Outrage II. He is considering a 92 Outrage 17. Of course, maybe you know more than us since you communicate through the back door.
posted 05-03-2008 08:48 PM ET (US)
The question weather posted in the wrong area of the forum or not is not in debate ,, all the extra effort to steer or lead someone to a boat or away from a boat is ,,jimh asked that it stop and several people have disregarded his request,,so we should all call Mr Lowe and say were all friends here and want a good deal,, ^@^,,is that about right
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