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Author Topic:   27 offshore WTB

lagulfcoast posted 03-30-2009 11:28 AM ET (US)
Looking at a couple of BW 27 Offshore rigs. I missed out on pulling the trigger on a nice one on this site b/c I was too busy researching and still not done. What are some real world performance numbers with this boat with newer power( 4s or di motors) 250s. What are some deficiencies with this boat? Have talked with Don from BW commercial and have got alot of info on the 27 Vigilant, but then have to still rig for fishing. Is 35-50k realistic for a mint one with new power?
leon

27 Black Dog posted 03-30-2009 12:00 PM ET (US)
I have a 1991 27 Walkaround which is similar to the OffShore and when I got it it was in really good shape, not mint, with 2007 250 E-Tecs. You should expect to pay anywhere from $50K to $70K, depending on condition and age of outboards.
This is my rig:
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc359/jedgerly/profile.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc359/jedgerly/Stern_view.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc359/jedgerly/Engines.jpg
Brian7son posted 03-30-2009 02:15 PM ET (US)
Black Dog,
How fast do those 250 E-Tecs push your rig? They look nice.
Jeff posted 03-30-2009 02:50 PM ET (US)
No. I would expect to pay in the 40 - 50 for a good solid but, not mint 27 Offshore with old power. There is a 27 Walkaround Whaler Drive in the Keys on Craigslist that needs some work and it has no power for 6K. It would take some work and time but you could do it all and throw new power on it for you budget easily.
There are not a lot of draw backs to these 27 whalers that I personally know of. The only one I think of is mediocre fuel milage with older carb'd two strokes. They are the true last of the classics and are strong boats.
There are a couple people here with Offshore 27's. One who has one and is very knowledgeable is Contender25 (Jason). Here are some old images of his boat.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/199427whaleroffshore/index.html
Here is a good recent thread on the Model.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003906.html
27 Black Dog posted 03-30-2009 02:58 PM ET (US)
At 3/4 throttle I was pushing 50MPH.
Contender25 posted 03-30-2009 03:06 PM ET (US)
You sent me an email not long ago, I sent you my # not sure if you got it or not?
I have a 1994 Offshore 27 powered by (2) 1996 Evinrude 225 Ocean Pro 2 strokes (bear with me here as I know this is not the power choice you or anyone would desire ;-) ) I get 1 mpg at 30kts which is a sweet spot for my boat in comfort and fuel economy. The boat tops out at 40kts i have seen 43 but that must of been with the current and wind at my stern.
In comparison I recently spoke with the new owner of this boat: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003906.html and he is cruising along at 30 kts getting at least 2mpg and topping out at 50 kts, I asked him if he meant mph and he confirmed kts that is cooking in a 27!
You may find one for 30-50K with new power but I do not think it would last long, there was one in Miami with twin 225 Mercury 4 strokes (re-badged Yamahas) and I think it was for sale in the low 30's, and then there was one with twin 225 Hondas that sold on ebay for the high teens, but that was an ex tow boat and the Hondas had over 3000 hours.
TransAm posted 03-30-2009 04:21 PM ET (US)
There is NO WAY on Gods green earth that 27 foot behemoth does 50 kts (57.5 MPH) sporting only 500 HP-Period.
27 Black Dog posted 03-30-2009 05:05 PM ET (US)
TransAm,
All I can tell you is that my Raymarine C80 display was reading 50.4 MPH at 3/4 throttle. This was also on a dead flat section of the Potomac River with one person and 100 gal. of fuel. I'm sure that if I had gon to WOT, 100%, I would have topped out around 55-57MPH. I also noticed on my I-Command guages that I was burning somewhere around 40 GPH on each engine. But I will tell you all one thing, my boat at 50 MPH was rock solid and OH BOY what a thrill.
TransAm posted 03-30-2009 05:49 PM ET (US)
Well Black Dog, I'm not going to dispute what your instruments told you, nor that your boat was going fast. Rigged as you indicate your boat was, with a 10' wide beam, it must weigh somewhere around 8,500 lbs. In order to push an 8,500 moderate planing v-hull, you would need somewhere around 700 HP. There are other members of the forum that operate classic 27's; one in particular I recall is outfitted with twin 225's and has a top speed of 45 MPH (Peter). An extra 50 HP would add another 2-3 MPH. I myself run a 25' Whaler with twin 250's. My weight is between 6,000 and 6,400 depending on the day. The beam is 2' narrower and a much more aerodynamic structure. I have touched 60 MPH only a couple of times. So there is the basis for my skepticism. Perhaps some others familiar with the operation of the 27' outboard powered Whalers can contribute their experiences. I'm in your neck of the woods; do you boat in the bay at all?
P.S. what size/pitch prop are you running?
Yiddil posted 03-30-2009 06:14 PM ET (US)
I have to say although I have not been on one, I have heard of people doing in the 50s all day long with newer power.
Black Dog has fairly new ETEC and that could make a difference on how fast it can go...I question if the 27 off shore and 27 aft cabin are the same boats, hulls, weight, and do the same speed, have the same tanks, same whaler drive etc and if that would make a difference...
One thing that really suprized me is the amount of gas your using to go 3/4 throttle...40 gal. per hour per each engine!!! Holy Cow! Thats something I could never wrap my wallet around, not ever, but that tell you the shape and size of my wallet...
Guess thats why I have smaller whalers...
I guess if it goes 5 mph slower and saves you upteen gas thats pretty okay too!
But they are very gorgeous boats, and I look forward to getting on one soon:) Henry

Contender25 posted 03-30-2009 07:16 PM ET (US)
"There is NO WAY on Gods green earth that 27 foot behemoth does 50 kts (57.5 MPH) sporting only 500 HP-Period."
I would of agreed with this statement if not for the (2) people that have said differently both with twin 250 etec's. I was shocked at the #'s.
There is a bit of a weight and LOA difference between the 27 Walkaround and the Offshore 27 as the 27 Walkaround has the Saltshaker built whaler drive and a bit more cabin structure so the #'s make even more sense with what Blackdog is stating There is another CW member with a 27 Walkaround powered by twin Yamaha 300HPDI's does anyone know those perf. #'s
TransAm posted 03-30-2009 08:30 PM ET (US)
An anecdotal, second hand dock-talk report of speed, and another observation of speed at "3/4 throttle" provides little hard evidence of a 57 MPH actual, accurate speed recording. A had a guy I see boating sometimes, with an off-shore 28' center console, powered with the same HP (500) as my 25' Whaler, using the identical prop (Mercury Mirage), and weighing 500 lbs more told me he recently hit 70. I asked him where he was trailering his boat to at the time, and it was dangerous to drive a tow vehicle that fast.
Your numbers jive Contender-about 45-46 MPH with 450 HP. Adding another 50 HP will not produce another 11-12 MPH. These boats are rated for up to 600 HP. If we increase the HP to 600, this would suggest a top end of over 63 MPH. Whaler has never produced a hull capable of 63 MPH operating with factory spec'd power. You're gonna need another 250 strapped on the back to see 63 and twin 300's may get you to 55. Sorry, I'm not buying.
TransAm posted 03-30-2009 09:07 PM ET (US)
Moving this discussion to Performance would be more appropriate and solicit more first hand responses.
Tom W Clark posted 03-30-2009 11:08 PM ET (US)
BIG difference between 50 MPH and 50 knots.
27 Black Dog posted 03-31-2009 06:21 AM ET (US)
Thank you Tom for bringing that up. I believe that TransAm was not quite putting that together. There is quite a big difference between 50 MPH and 50 Knots.
TransAm posted 03-31-2009 06:47 AM ET (US)
Ah Black Dog, it's precisely because I "put it together" in my first post comparing 50 kts and 50 MPH that I have significant doubt of the claims of a 57 MPH (50 kts) top end for a 500 HP, 8,500 lb, 27' Whaler. Please share where you think I am statistically wrong.
27 Black Dog posted 03-31-2009 09:07 AM ET (US)
TransAm,
I am not the great statistician that most of you all appear to be but if you would like to come out on a ride with me I would be more than happy to have you aboard and see what it is like when I open her up.
TransAm posted 03-31-2009 10:37 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the invite Black Dog. If you venture into the Bay, I'd be happy to catch up with you. You're rig looks nice and I have never been on a 27. Are you doing the Potomac River Swim for the Environment?
27 Black Dog posted 03-31-2009 12:25 PM ET (US)
Yes I am going down for that event. I will be meeting up with Yiddil at his house then we are all going down from there.
TransAm posted 03-31-2009 01:51 PM ET (US)
Awesome, I'm trying to carve out some time that weekend; I have not christened my whaler in the Potomac except around point look-out. The forecast will dictate my travel plans; I have 2 younger kids and although they love the boat/bay, they are not tolerant of 3' bay slop for more than an hour or so. It's about a 70 mile run for me, but if I can cruise at 45, I could make it in under 2 hours. We'll see.
Peter posted 03-31-2009 02:13 PM ET (US)
I believe 50 MPH. My 27 Whaler WD with twin 225s has seen 45 MPH. Based on my experience, 50 MPH is plenty fast for that boat.
27 Black Dog posted 03-31-2009 02:21 PM ET (US)
TransAm,
You should contact Yiddil about the specifics. I would not recommend you bringing your small children because if it gets sloppy, as you know it can, the kids will not have a good time.
TransAm posted 03-31-2009 02:34 PM ET (US)
BD,
I've been following the thread in rendezvous.
Peter, how bout 50 kts?

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Author	Topic: 27 offshore WTB
lagulfcoast	posted 03-30-2009 11:28 AM ET (US) Looking at a couple of BW 27 Offshore rigs. I missed out on pulling the trigger on a nice one on this site b/c I was too busy researching and still not done. What are some real world performance numbers with this boat with newer power( 4s or di motors) 250s. What are some deficiencies with this boat? Have talked with Don from BW commercial and have got alot of info on the 27 Vigilant, but then have to still rig for fishing. Is 35-50k realistic for a mint one with new power? leon
27 Black Dog	posted 03-30-2009 12:00 PM ET (US) I have a 1991 27 Walkaround which is similar to the OffShore and when I got it it was in really good shape, not mint, with 2007 250 E-Tecs. You should expect to pay anywhere from $50K to $70K, depending on condition and age of outboards. This is my rig: http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc359/jedgerly/profile.jpg http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc359/jedgerly/Stern_view.jpg http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc359/jedgerly/Engines.jpg
Brian7son	posted 03-30-2009 02:15 PM ET (US) Black Dog, How fast do those 250 E-Tecs push your rig? They look nice.
Jeff	posted 03-30-2009 02:50 PM ET (US) No. I would expect to pay in the 40 - 50 for a good solid but, not mint 27 Offshore with old power. There is a 27 Walkaround Whaler Drive in the Keys on Craigslist that needs some work and it has no power for 6K. It would take some work and time but you could do it all and throw new power on it for you budget easily. There are not a lot of draw backs to these 27 whalers that I personally know of. The only one I think of is mediocre fuel milage with older carb'd two strokes. They are the true last of the classics and are strong boats. There are a couple people here with Offshore 27's. One who has one and is very knowledgeable is Contender25 (Jason). Here are some old images of his boat. http://www.classicseacraft.com/199427whaleroffshore/index.html Here is a good recent thread on the Model. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003906.html
27 Black Dog	posted 03-30-2009 02:58 PM ET (US) At 3/4 throttle I was pushing 50MPH.
Contender25	posted 03-30-2009 03:06 PM ET (US) You sent me an email not long ago, I sent you my # not sure if you got it or not? I have a 1994 Offshore 27 powered by (2) 1996 Evinrude 225 Ocean Pro 2 strokes (bear with me here as I know this is not the power choice you or anyone would desire ;-) ) I get 1 mpg at 30kts which is a sweet spot for my boat in comfort and fuel economy. The boat tops out at 40kts i have seen 43 but that must of been with the current and wind at my stern. In comparison I recently spoke with the new owner of this boat: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003906.html and he is cruising along at 30 kts getting at least 2mpg and topping out at 50 kts, I asked him if he meant mph and he confirmed kts that is cooking in a 27! You may find one for 30-50K with new power but I do not think it would last long, there was one in Miami with twin 225 Mercury 4 strokes (re-badged Yamahas) and I think it was for sale in the low 30's, and then there was one with twin 225 Hondas that sold on ebay for the high teens, but that was an ex tow boat and the Hondas had over 3000 hours.
TransAm	posted 03-30-2009 04:21 PM ET (US) There is NO WAY on Gods green earth that 27 foot behemoth does 50 kts (57.5 MPH) sporting only 500 HP-Period.
27 Black Dog	posted 03-30-2009 05:05 PM ET (US) TransAm, All I can tell you is that my Raymarine C80 display was reading 50.4 MPH at 3/4 throttle. This was also on a dead flat section of the Potomac River with one person and 100 gal. of fuel. I'm sure that if I had gon to WOT, 100%, I would have topped out around 55-57MPH. I also noticed on my I-Command guages that I was burning somewhere around 40 GPH on each engine. But I will tell you all one thing, my boat at 50 MPH was rock solid and OH BOY what a thrill.
TransAm	posted 03-30-2009 05:49 PM ET (US) Well Black Dog, I'm not going to dispute what your instruments told you, nor that your boat was going fast. Rigged as you indicate your boat was, with a 10' wide beam, it must weigh somewhere around 8,500 lbs. In order to push an 8,500 moderate planing v-hull, you would need somewhere around 700 HP. There are other members of the forum that operate classic 27's; one in particular I recall is outfitted with twin 225's and has a top speed of 45 MPH (Peter). An extra 50 HP would add another 2-3 MPH. I myself run a 25' Whaler with twin 250's. My weight is between 6,000 and 6,400 depending on the day. The beam is 2' narrower and a much more aerodynamic structure. I have touched 60 MPH only a couple of times. So there is the basis for my skepticism. Perhaps some others familiar with the operation of the 27' outboard powered Whalers can contribute their experiences. I'm in your neck of the woods; do you boat in the bay at all? P.S. what size/pitch prop are you running?
Yiddil	posted 03-30-2009 06:14 PM ET (US) I have to say although I have not been on one, I have heard of people doing in the 50s all day long with newer power. Black Dog has fairly new ETEC and that could make a difference on how fast it can go...I question if the 27 off shore and 27 aft cabin are the same boats, hulls, weight, and do the same speed, have the same tanks, same whaler drive etc and if that would make a difference... One thing that really suprized me is the amount of gas your using to go 3/4 throttle...40 gal. per hour per each engine!!! Holy Cow! Thats something I could never wrap my wallet around, not ever, but that tell you the shape and size of my wallet... Guess thats why I have smaller whalers... I guess if it goes 5 mph slower and saves you upteen gas thats pretty okay too! But they are very gorgeous boats, and I look forward to getting on one soon:) Henry
Contender25	posted 03-30-2009 07:16 PM ET (US) "There is NO WAY on Gods green earth that 27 foot behemoth does 50 kts (57.5 MPH) sporting only 500 HP-Period." I would of agreed with this statement if not for the (2) people that have said differently both with twin 250 etec's. I was shocked at the #'s. There is a bit of a weight and LOA difference between the 27 Walkaround and the Offshore 27 as the 27 Walkaround has the Saltshaker built whaler drive and a bit more cabin structure so the #'s make even more sense with what Blackdog is stating There is another CW member with a 27 Walkaround powered by twin Yamaha 300HPDI's does anyone know those perf. #'s
TransAm	posted 03-30-2009 08:30 PM ET (US) An anecdotal, second hand dock-talk report of speed, and another observation of speed at "3/4 throttle" provides little hard evidence of a 57 MPH actual, accurate speed recording. A had a guy I see boating sometimes, with an off-shore 28' center console, powered with the same HP (500) as my 25' Whaler, using the identical prop (Mercury Mirage), and weighing 500 lbs more told me he recently hit 70. I asked him where he was trailering his boat to at the time, and it was dangerous to drive a tow vehicle that fast. Your numbers jive Contender-about 45-46 MPH with 450 HP. Adding another 50 HP will not produce another 11-12 MPH. These boats are rated for up to 600 HP. If we increase the HP to 600, this would suggest a top end of over 63 MPH. Whaler has never produced a hull capable of 63 MPH operating with factory spec'd power. You're gonna need another 250 strapped on the back to see 63 and twin 300's may get you to 55. Sorry, I'm not buying.
TransAm	posted 03-30-2009 09:07 PM ET (US) Moving this discussion to Performance would be more appropriate and solicit more first hand responses.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-30-2009 11:08 PM ET (US) BIG difference between 50 MPH and 50 knots.
27 Black Dog	posted 03-31-2009 06:21 AM ET (US) Thank you Tom for bringing that up. I believe that TransAm was not quite putting that together. There is quite a big difference between 50 MPH and 50 Knots.
TransAm	posted 03-31-2009 06:47 AM ET (US) Ah Black Dog, it's precisely because I "put it together" in my first post comparing 50 kts and 50 MPH that I have significant doubt of the claims of a 57 MPH (50 kts) top end for a 500 HP, 8,500 lb, 27' Whaler. Please share where you think I am statistically wrong.
27 Black Dog	posted 03-31-2009 09:07 AM ET (US) TransAm, I am not the great statistician that most of you all appear to be but if you would like to come out on a ride with me I would be more than happy to have you aboard and see what it is like when I open her up.
TransAm	posted 03-31-2009 10:37 AM ET (US) Thanks for the invite Black Dog. If you venture into the Bay, I'd be happy to catch up with you. You're rig looks nice and I have never been on a 27. Are you doing the Potomac River Swim for the Environment?
27 Black Dog	posted 03-31-2009 12:25 PM ET (US) Yes I am going down for that event. I will be meeting up with Yiddil at his house then we are all going down from there.
TransAm	posted 03-31-2009 01:51 PM ET (US) Awesome, I'm trying to carve out some time that weekend; I have not christened my whaler in the Potomac except around point look-out. The forecast will dictate my travel plans; I have 2 younger kids and although they love the boat/bay, they are not tolerant of 3' bay slop for more than an hour or so. It's about a 70 mile run for me, but if I can cruise at 45, I could make it in under 2 hours. We'll see.
Peter	posted 03-31-2009 02:13 PM ET (US) I believe 50 MPH. My 27 Whaler WD with twin 225s has seen 45 MPH. Based on my experience, 50 MPH is plenty fast for that boat.
27 Black Dog	posted 03-31-2009 02:21 PM ET (US) TransAm, You should contact Yiddil about the specifics. I would not recommend you bringing your small children because if it gets sloppy, as you know it can, the kids will not have a good time.
TransAm	posted 03-31-2009 02:34 PM ET (US) BD, I've been following the thread in rendezvous. Peter, how bout 50 kts?