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  WTB - Flaring Tool or die for drain tubes

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Author Topic:   WTB - Flaring Tool or die for drain tubes
scostagl posted 07-23-2009 04:33 PM ET (US)   Profile for scostagl   Send Email to scostagl  
Hi, I'm restoring my '66 Nauset and looking to avoid paying the $40 for the flaring tool. Does anyone have a tool they are looking to sell? Actually, all I need is one of the dies as I'm going to hook it up to an air hammer to do the job.

If someone has a flaring tool or die that they would sell pls contact me at scosta99@gmail.com

Thanks in advance!

MyOutrage posted 07-23-2009 07:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for MyOutrage  Send Email to MyOutrage     
Don't have one for sale but I'd be willing to loan it to you. I've got both the 1" or 1 1/4". Send me an eMail with your address. Only thing I ask is that you return when your done and drop a $5 bill in the box when you send it back to cover my shipping.
mojack posted 07-23-2009 07:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for mojack  Send Email to mojack     
Very nice gesture! Kudos
scostagl posted 07-23-2009 10:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for scostagl  Send Email to scostagl     
Awesome, thanks. I just sent you an email.

RM NY posted 07-24-2009 08:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for RM NY  Send Email to RM NY     
I would caution against using a air hammer, the drains are soft and hand tools is all that is required.
If you are air hammering the drains they are not cut properly.
scostagl posted 07-24-2009 11:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for scostagl  Send Email to scostagl     
Thanks for the tip. I'll take my time and just use hand tools as you suggested.
RM NY posted 07-25-2009 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for RM NY  Send Email to RM NY     
what happens is if you leave it too long and try to force it the lip cracks
Tom W Clark posted 07-25-2009 02:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
There is nothing violent or damaging about using the air hammer technique.

Using the air hammer allows you to pre-form the flare on one end or a piece of tubing in seconds.

It also allows you to do it to an odd angle, which is mostly Whatr Whaler hulls require to do. You can't do that with the regular draw bolt flaring tool.

You can make the flares with hammers too, but it is much more tedious and does not come out as cleanly as this:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/rolled_drain_tube.jpg

Tom W Clark posted 07-25-2009 02:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
quote:
what happens is if you leave it too long and try to force it the lip cracks

That is not true.

RM NY posted 07-25-2009 05:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for RM NY  Send Email to RM NY     
everytime I have not cut the tubes to the right length they cracked, whats the secret I am missing, and if its possible to get a larger lip why is it not the standard procedure? Figure a little more lip would be better then the small lip they come with.

I just see no need for the air hammer when dealing with soft metals and tubes that have a flare already on one end.

home Aside posted 07-25-2009 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for home Aside  Send Email to home Aside     
Do a search there are a lot of threads on the subject here's one

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/009805.html

Pat

Tom W Clark posted 07-26-2009 12:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
The "lip" or flare should wrap around the O-ring more than 90 degrees and less than 180 degrees. The correct length for a tube is to be 5/16" beyond the surface of the hull before the flare, and matching the angle of the hull at that point.

I don't see what length has to do with the brass tubing splitting. That is a function of whether you have annealed the brass or not. If you do not anneal the brass, you will split the brass by flaring it beyond 90 degrees.

Tubes that you buy with a pre-flare are not usually flared enough to use with an O-ring. If the tube is not flared enough and you use an O-ring, the O-ring will squish out. Pre-formed tubes you buy are for boats that do not use O-rings and are of consistent, relatively thin, thickness. Whaler hulls are not like that.

If you buy a pre-flared tube, it will be flared perpendicular to the length of the tube which will not work if the tube exits the hull and anything other than 90 degrees. Most drain tubes in Whaler hulls do not exit the hull at 90 degrees, thus you need to alter the shape of the tube to match the hull.

By creating your own pre-flares, you can match the angle of the hull. This is easily accomplished with the air hammer/flaring-die technique.

Most pre-flared tubes are 3-4 inches long. Many tubes in Whaler hull are much longer than that, up to 14 inches, so you are going to be buying brass tubing to making your own anyway. Why fool around?

RM NY posted 07-26-2009 11:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for RM NY  Send Email to RM NY     
we were talking about 2 different things, the length of the tube is not what I was talking about, I was talking about leaving it too long for the application.

If you leave it too long, and force it to flange, it will crack and not do its job. The tube could be 2" long or 8" long, but cut it too long for that application and its no good.

Phil T posted 07-26-2009 12:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Phil T  Send Email to Phil T     
RM -

Are you annealing the tube prior to flaring.

Tom W Clark posted 07-26-2009 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
The length of the tube beyond the hull is critical, I agree with that, but it has nothing to do with splitting the brass. As I said, the tube must extend 5/16" beyond the hull to get the correct flare.

If the tube it too long, and you try to flare it, one of two things will happen. It will flare and curl back to the hull and not cinch up tight on the O-ring, or the tube will buckle inside the hull.

If you are splitting the brass, you have not annealed it properly before flaring. If that is the case, the length of the tube (beyond the hull) has nothing to do with it.

superdave_gv posted 07-26-2009 10:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for superdave_gv  Send Email to superdave_gv     

Tom-- Twin Cities does sell a pre-flared tube for Whalers. I agree with you that it needs more that the 90 to best hold the o-ring.

This is all still speculative for me and based on researching the threads. I bought the stuff from Twin Cities but waiting until after the season-- they need replaced but manageable for now. If anyone in Atlanta needs their boat done as well, maybe we can team up.

FWIW-- from reading all the threads, Tom's air hammer and modified flaring tool for angles is pretty impressive. You oughtta sell those as kits instead of the ones that just do 90 degree exits.

Tom W Clark posted 07-28-2009 10:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
There would not be much to a "kit." If you already have the flaring tool, you need only modify one of the dies. You can buy an air hammer for less than $20 and away you go.
Tom W Clark posted 07-28-2009 06:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Here's an air hammer that would work great for only $6.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92037

bmo32 posted 07-29-2009 01:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for bmo32  Send Email to bmo32     
Here's a picture of what Tom's technique can accomplish: http://app.onehub.com/d/abon

Two tubes, from prepped empty holes to ready-for-cover-reinstall, in just about one hour.


superdave_gv posted 07-30-2009 07:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for superdave_gv  Send Email to superdave_gv     

Hey, to anyone that has replaced the transom drain tubes (upper and lower) on a classic 16'7"-- can you do this job with the motor on or should the motor come off?

What stalled me on my upper replacement recently was that the flared ends corroded and fell off quickly. I didn't have a really good angle to attack the rest. I tried to put in a t-plug cranked tight and pull the tube out but it didn't budge. So I did a temporary PVC and caulk approach until I could get at it this offseason.

Not trying to take over the thread -- thought the question might help the original poster who also has a classic 16'7".

Tom W Clark posted 07-30-2009 09:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
I suppose it depends on what motor and how high it is mounted on the transom.

I replaced all the drain tubes in my Montauk last summer with its 90 HP Mercury mounted on it one hole up. It was not in the way at all.

4whaler posted 07-30-2009 05:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for 4whaler  Send Email to 4whaler     
The chinese tube and O'rings you get from Twin Cities are crap (sorry Sue, I know you didn't order them in, you just ship) Get the correct US made tube and O'rings from McMaster Carr. The Chicom stuff rots and falls off or corrodes in less that a year. I put in plastic for some of my new installs. Others got the brass tube. Annealing and cutting to correct length is critical. I have two big washers that I put on tube end and cut it flush on the ones with a pre flared end. The straight tube requires 4 washers, two on each end to get the 5/16 length right. I remove the washers and then use the flaring tool I got from Sue. Had to buy some longer bolts or all thread rod to do the Mischief, it has a damn long tube and its passage is slightly bent in the hull. The anchor/fish locker is the hard one due to the angle of the cut, the air tool with short flare neck insert is the only way to do it right I think, maybe with a ball peen hammer too? I gave up after three attempts and put in plastic.

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