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Author Topic:   25' Outrage Cuddy
Ephraimwhaler posted 06-06-2000 11:04 AM ET (US)   Profile for Ephraimwhaler   Send Email to Ephraimwhaler  
I've heard this particuliar Outrage is a real pig in the cross wind, difficult to dock,handles sloppy etc.etc.etc. Can any one comment on these statements. I currently own a 22'Outrage and love the boat.Whatsup?
dfmcintyre posted 06-06-2000 01:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
In a word....nonsense.

I owned a 25' Cuddy, Revenge model, (and a 22' like yours) and have driven the Outrage model, and it's no more or less difficult to dock than any other 25' vessel with the same flat plate area, i.e. amount of superstructure that can be affected by a wind.

Two things I did notice _between_ the two, was that in the Revenge, while turning, the roll of the hull felt more pronounced since the helm is not centerline mounted, and it felt a bit rougher ride, again due to the helm seating being mounted4' forward of where the seating was mounted in the Outrage.

If you trade up, you'll find that the ride is smoother, and it is less prone to crosswind problems then was complained about.

Best - Don

Ephraimwhaler posted 06-06-2000 04:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ephraimwhaler  Send Email to Ephraimwhaler     
Don,
Along the same line of questioning. On the 25 Outrage w/cuddy I was wondering is the Whaler Drive system for mounting the outboards something that I should look for in this class of boat. On my present 22 and past 19 Outrage we hung the outboard off the transom,that always worked good for me on this size of hull. Im a Wisconsin Lake Michigan boater my Whalers over the last 29 years have always gotten me home.
Thanks,
Russ Gilson
dfmcintyre posted 06-06-2000 10:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Russ -

If I was looking for that size and model, I'd buy the whalerdrive model over a standard. As you are probably well aware, the storage capacity can be limited, especially if your doing some cruising on it. The drive gives you ALOT of storage in the stern. Look in the photo section on page 2 (I think) and check out the 25 of LHG's. He used a bracket for his twins, but note in one photo the three teak hatches, that will give you room to almost put a couple of kids below.

Walt Steffens posted 06-07-2000 01:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Walt Steffens  Send Email to Walt Steffens     
Russ: On most things above I agree with Don. Handeling and ride are very good on the 25 platform. I however differ in opnion on the whaler drive.

My 22 and 25 both had cut out traditional transoms to which the engines were bolted. And I found that desirable for a couple of reasons. One is that I didn't want the extra weight, and cantilever load when towing or the extra length to pay for in storage as well in handeling on a trailer. Second I considered the full transome a dis-advantage in quick self bailing mode. My thought was if that I took a wave over the side I wouldn't be able to "Blast" the water out over the transome if It was full height. I have tested this in both my 22 & 25 by delibertly backing into a following sea to flood the cockpit. I would guess it took less than 5 seconds for all but a small amount to pour out over the motor well and transom cut out. Interestingly both the 22 & 25 exhibited such boyancy that unless I really tried hard to ship water by backing into a wave the engines would come out of the water for a second or two evidenced by hearing the exhaust out of water! Dourghety the designer of this design series seemed to pay particular attention to being able to keep the power head of the outboard out of the water even if the hull was flooded thus making it possible to use the boats power and forward motion to make the self bailing (over the transom) unequalled by any other type of craft with the exception of an infaltable. This design detail extends all the way down to the design of the BW battery box. I don't know if you ever noticed or not but it is designed with a very deep lid that keeps the battery top in a bubble if the boat is swamped temporaily.

For the "Whaler Drive" it is of very good design. It does add to the efficiency of the hull as it adds and moves wetted bottom of the hull farther aft under planing conditions. This also makes it ride more on the line of a 28' hull. Also it very evenly distributes the cantilevered engine load very evenly across the transom lowering stress on the hull. Above the added "dry" storage advantage I would think it would make the cockpit quieter underway as the engines are lower and behind the transom. Just my 2 cents worth. By the way Don & I are old friends and have had this discussion before. Hope this helps.
Best WLS

Ephraimwhaler posted 06-14-2000 06:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ephraimwhaler  Send Email to Ephraimwhaler     
Where have all the 25' Cuddy Outrages gone? I've been looking for 2 years and only found two and wasn't able to purchase either one. I would appreciate any help in locating a 25 with a freshwater history.Thank's
lhg posted 06-14-2000 09:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Russ: Whoever told you the 25' hull was a pig was an idiot, as this is probably Whaler's finest moment. (But all of us here would be interested in where you heard that) I'm highly prejudiced, I admit, but many others, including the Coast Guard and Navy, will agree. You are going to have a hard time finding a 25 Outrage Cuddy with Whaler Drive, since not many were sold because of the high initial price, especially with twins. And those that were sold don't often make it to the open market, getting traded among friends, and picked up by Dealer employees when traded in, etc. Try allaboutboats.com and don't rule out a saltwater model for your boating up in the Door peninsula, since no matter what you buy, new power is likely to be needed in the future anyway. Even bottom paint can be removed if necessary. It seems there are more Revenge models trading hands these days than the Outrages, so you should consider that also.

I considered the 25 Cuddy when I ordered mine, but after a careful look at all around flexibility, decided the open 25, with the full Mills canvas instead, was more useable, and more functional, especially for colder Great Lakes boating.
The canvas cost about the same as the hard shell configuration, but gives much more interior space and weather protection. So consider that also. It will also be easier to find a "pure" Outrage over the Cuddy model. And finally, you can, if you want to spring for it, still get a desert beige Guardian 25 brand new, in full transom version. But don't wait too long, as I hear this option is also about to end as Sea Ray brings their own new designs, at lower selling prices, into the Commercial Products division.

I'm often up around Sister Bay, Gills Rock, Washington and Rock Islands. Keep an eye out for my 25!

Ephraimwhaler posted 06-15-2000 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ephraimwhaler  Send Email to Ephraimwhaler     
Thanks for the response lhg. Whats your take on the WHaler Drive versus the traditional hang on the stern mount. Your input on the Mills Canvas verses the hardshell cuddy is interesting. I currently have a 22 Outrage with the Mills Full canvas I thought I would like the cuddy for lockable storage and bunk area to do camping. Maybe your thought makes more sense, the canvas when down certainly provides more open deck space. Ive had WHalers for 30 years. Thanks
lhg posted 06-15-2000 08:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Because I have one, I have to agree with Don's above comments on the full transom version of the boat. If you look at the stern configuration, you will see the full transom model has more floor space than the notched transom model. There an additional storage well in the transom, the engine controls, filters, etc are concealed, and the boat seems more enclosed and secure, and with better stern seating possibilities. In addition, the Whaler drive/bracketed engine configuration increases the HP rating from 300 to 450, and uses twin 25" counter-rotating engines. The conventional model uses twin 20" engines, and they are not available in counter-rotation.
The higher engines also keep drier, and are mounted higher in the water, increasing performance and reducing lower unit drag.
There are two 3" water evacuation pipes fitted through the raised splash well, and also two 3" pipes through the transom, above water line, (covered with Salisbury exhaust flappers) to get rid of a flooded floor should it happen. As Walt has said, this is not as good in getting rid of water as the notched transom under these conditions, but I do think it's still satisfactory and worth the trade off. Mine have never been needed in 11 years. So go with the Whaler Drive, if you can find one. The boat will have to be 1987-1993 to have Whaler Drive. A converted OMC Sea Drive model is also a possibility, but it would have an aftermarket bracket (like I do), rather than the Whaler part.

Funny story: I was at a launching ramp with my 25 (full transom model) still on the trailer, and this guy keeps walking around the boat, looking at it with some confusion. (Doesn't this happen all the time with a Whaler?) Finally he says:"Gee, this is the first boat I've ever seen with twin outboards plus an inboard. It must be pretty fast!" He thought the factory installed Salisbury exhaust flaps, over the water evacuation pipes, was an engine, never bothering to notice there was no inboard prop or drive shaft! When I explained he felt pretty stupid and walked away.

dfmcintyre posted 06-16-2000 12:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
RE: CANVAS vs FIBERGLASS over your head....

I'd go along with Larrys comments about more floor space in the true Outrage version of the 25'.

However....

After an extremely wet trip to the North Channel with our 22' Outrage with full canvas, I made the comment (after drying out for the _third_ time in four days) that I was gonna look for something that allowed for at least fiberglass over my head when sleeping. Thats how we ended up with the 25 Cuddy. Even with model, we ended up with custom canvas that gave us a top, then a year later, camper canvas with screens that extended to the back of the quarter seats on both sides of the engine (it was an I/O)cover. Great boat for cruising. The floor area was 7 x 13 or so.

Good hunting!

Don

JoeO posted 06-16-2000 02:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for JoeO  Send Email to JoeO     
About a month ago, I saw one in RI that was used in salt water. It was in great shape, had twin Yamahas with low hours. I don't know if its still for sale, but if your interested, send me an e-mail and I can give you the owners name and phone number. (I won't post it on a forum, sorry)
lhg posted 06-17-2000 01:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Don: The key to cruising with the Mills canvas is to keep it silicone waterproofed.
If you do, it's totally waterproof. I have slept through some major rain storms and never had a drop in the boat, except for an occasional zipper leak, but not enough to worry about. The sleeping cabin under the Mills forward shelter is twice the size of the Cuddy Cabin. I like the idea of having a convertible.

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