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Author Topic:   Hole in the hull
70_Whaler posted 11-02-2000 03:16 PM ET (US)   Profile for 70_Whaler   Send Email to 70_Whaler  
I found a nice 1970 whaler that is in great shape topside, but I found a hole (4" long) on the center line on the hull. It goes through to the core and I'm not sure the extent of the damage to the inside. It's dry and I'm temped to have it repaired without any further examination. Good or bad idea?
Thanks
Arch Autenreith posted 11-02-2000 08:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Arch Autenreith  Send Email to Arch Autenreith     
70-Whaler.
I poked a 12" X 5" hole in my Montauk this Spring. About 12" port of center. Actually not a hole but the crack(s) were that long. I spent a lot of time talking to people and someone on this forum (sorry. I forgot who) faxed me the Whaler-recommeded method of repairing which entailed cutting out the affected area and using a 'mash' of very thick epoxy mixed with chopped fiberglass, jamming it under the newly exposed lip, fairing then glassing over. (I scanned the instructions and will email if you want) I ended up cutting out the area, used liquid foam to replace a VERY little amount of foam then re-glassed it. Turned out perfect. (I didn't bother trying to match the color of the gelcoat however as a friend of mine said to me "you don't notice it when you're on deck." lol)

In 20/20 talking to West Systems (after I had already made the cut) they suggested, as per their repair manuals, grinding off the gelcoat, fill drilled holes with epoxy and re-glass over that. If I had to do it over again that absolutely would be the method I'd use. Cutting and laying 4 pieces if fiberglass and getting it to match the hull shape was time consuming to say the least. I did take pictures at each and every step of the way and would post them but they're boring to look at. By the way, I don't know what Whaler you have but I just dragged the Montauk off the trailer and pulled it up on it's side. Much easier for me than laying on my back all the time. Also patched up the keel in need of a little repair. No need to take off the engine, consol or railings if you do it this way as I didn't turn it all the way over.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Arch

kingfish posted 11-02-2000 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Arch:
I'm not sure I completely followed the method you used to repair your Montauk; did you wind up using the "mash"? Reason for my question is, BW has recommended to me I use what I am sure is the same "mash" to do some work I want to get into over the winter, and it is not completely clear to me just how much of what to mix together to come up with the stuff.

Any pointers on preparing the mix? (If you used it)

thanx-

jcf

Arch Autenreith posted 11-03-2000 10:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for Arch Autenreith  Send Email to Arch Autenreith     
Kingfish.
Explaining how I do things is definitely one of my weaker points.
I did not use the 'mash' method. I had already cut out the affected area and faired the edge 1-to-12 then dug out the foam (as per BW instructions) under the newly exposed lip in preparation to jam the mash under it. (I'll email you the instructions and you can see for yourself what they're talking about.) So instead of mashing stuff under there to replace the removed foam I just used foam to replace what I had taken out already. Finally, I used 3 pieces of glass (smallest to largest) to cover the hole.
Again, I would definitely not do it again this way. I would do what Gougeoun (sp?) Bros. suggested in drilling small-ish closely-spaced holes and using the plastic syringes, available from West Systems, inject the epoxy into the holes and tape shut till it cures. Then just put a layer of glass over it. I certainly am not positive which way is better as I guess either way is ok but I gave more creedence to West System.
Hope this clarifies my previous but knowing my style of writing I may have confused the issue more.
kingfish posted 11-03-2000 02:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Thanks, Arch-

I'll look for the e-mail.

jcf

lhg posted 11-03-2000 04:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
John: I'm the one that sent Arch the hull repair information from BW. These were the instructions that came with BW's pint can gelcoat repair kit. I have also sent JimH a copy. Maybe it can be posted it in the reference section.
70_Katama posted 11-03-2000 04:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for 70_Katama  Send Email to 70_Katama     
That would be great to see posted.

While I'm at it, and have the winter to play in the Garage I was thinking about removing the bottom blue paint down to the original while gel coat. Not sure if I'm opening up a can of worms? Thanks again for the previous reply's. Great site!

kingfish posted 11-03-2000 07:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Larry:
Is that BW gelcoat as in you got it from BW? Presuming from your post it is - how would one come across some of that from BW?
dfmcintyre posted 11-04-2000 05:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
70-kat -

Only problem with removing the bottom paint is how the hull was prepped prior to the bottom paint application. Some just put on the paint. Removing it will be no problem. Some will "scuff" the bottom with anywhere from 300 to 600 grit, then apply the paint.

If it's the latter type of application, keep in mind that you will have to sand, with progressively finer paper and finally buff out. Will look great, but how do you like looking like a big smurf (I got a friend who bought a 30' Tiara with multiple coats of blue bottom paint. He pulled it into his shop, worked for about a week with a DA on the hull, removing the paint. I stopped for a visit, and he came out from under the boat (which had a plastic "skirt" for containment) dressed in a respirator and tyfik white overalls. He looked like a mutant blue smurf. Couldn't see why all the employees thought it was a stitch. I still giggle on the image) for a while, on your back?

Don

lhg posted 11-04-2000 04:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
John: For years, the only way one could get BW gelcoat was directly from the factory or through a Dealer. It came in a pint paint can, and the Dealers used to keep it in a refrigerator. Catalyst and instructions were included. Had a recommended shelf life of about 6 months. I haven't bought any from Lauderdale Marina in about 3 years, so I don't know if it's still available. But if I had to guess, I'd say no. Desert tan is not real popular in Edgewater these days!
sport15er posted 11-04-2000 08:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for sport15er  Send Email to sport15er     
fyi.. just received my gel coat repair kit from West Marine (Desert Tan btw.....) It's readily available, just tell them your model, year, etc, and within a week or so, it's in your hands! (@$20)
In a nutshell.... it works like a solid surface Corian type adhesive, or a wood putty. The beauty of it is, that the more you sand it, the better it gets!
After proper curing, start with 220 grit wet paper, working your way down to 400, 600, for a higher gloss I use 1000 grit.
Any BW dealer can get it for you, or West Marine, BoatUS, etc.
Good Luck!
kingfish posted 11-04-2000 10:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Thanks, Sport15er - I've worked my way through a handful of those kits, and for small stuff, they are really handy. I'm in the middle of my first quart of the real thing (not paste) redoing the color on the fiberglass parts of a custom leaning post, and was wondering if there was another source even more "Whaler" than Spectrum - just idle curiosity.

And thanks, Larry - I'll bet Desert Tan is not a hot seller in Edgewater.

lhg posted 11-05-2000 11:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
John: I was wondering why you needed all that gelcoat on your mint condition hull!
I was beginning to think you'd hit one of those North Channel shoals.
For what you are doing, it sounds like you should be spraying the gelcoat. I have an article on how-to if you're interested.
kingfish posted 11-06-2000 08:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Larry:

I'd appreciate it. I've pretty well finished the smaller piece that the rod holders sit in, situated along the upper aft side of the leaning post and still have the larger though less visible "tub" that is under the seat to do.

I started out by thinning the gelcoat with acetone (I understand styrene will also work) and using one of those little "throw-away" sprayers with replaceable pressure cartridges - can't remember the name - but the gelcoat went on so thin and dry that I removed about 60% of it sanding it back flat. Went to unthinned mode and a paint brush and three coats later with full dry and sanding with 600 and 1000 grit between coats, it looks pretty good - outside corners, even though rounded, were a b$@#!.

Little throw-aways work really well for the PVA cure sealer.

While I'm on your nickle, how about a good reference for a radar arch? (Actually, that request is open to anyone who is still reading.)

TIA

DIVE 1 posted 11-06-2000 02:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Contact Keith Joy at Lakeside Marina Ph.#(419)-798-4406.
lhg posted 11-06-2000 02:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
John: The article is in the mail to you, although it sounds like you were on the right track. Whenever I work with gelcoat, I work all the way up through 1500 grit wet paper before going to rubbing compound, etc.

As for a radar arch, mine was made by the people in Jacksonville who BW was using for the 1991 Walkarounds. Although I think mine is very nice, I think Steve (backlash) has one that is higher quality, and better designed, than mine, and it was done around Port Clinton OH. Much closer for you. Get in touch with Steve for info. His is a real high quality beauty. Plan on spending about $2500.

Items of importance on an arch, at least to me are:

1. Proper rear slope. Front leg should be about 45 degrees, with rear leg about 30 degrees. Distance between legs at top should be about 12", while at base about 24". Be sure it's designed to not interfere with the Mills canvas at all. Some people attach canvas items to the arch, but I would not do this.

2. There should be three top plates. Center one for flush mounted GPS receiver, plus the short Perko international light/anchor light combo. (Running light faces FORWARD, with your standard Whaler stern light still being used.) Side top plates for radio and DGPS/Loran antenna.

3. Cockpit flood lights. At least one facing each direction, maybe two to rear, for a total of three.

4. Rod holders across top - I like one in the middle that I use for a flag, then 2 on each side.

5. Outriggers, if you might use them, should be the Lee side mounted type. There are nice flat sided tubing sections that can be used to mount these. Even if you're not initially planning to install outriggers, I would still have the supports put in for them when the arch is being built.

So there you have it. Next week, the New York Times crossword puzzle will have the following clue for #36 across (5 letters) "A superbly rigged 22' Boston Whaler residing somewhere in Central Michigan"

kingfish posted 11-06-2000 10:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Larry:
Thanks for the input, and for the compliments. I'll give Steve a holler, and I'll look for the gelcoat stuff in the mail.

And thank you, DIVE 1 - I will also call Keith.

jcf

lhg posted 11-06-2000 10:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Could be talking about the same shop here. I think Steve's guy was also in Lakeside OH.

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