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Author Topic:   montauk sump cover
simonmeridew posted 04-27-2001 04:02 PM ET (US)   Profile for simonmeridew   Send Email to simonmeridew  
Is there some kind of a cover that's supposed to be over the rectangular sump in the stern of my montauk? There are some screws on each corner like something used to be there, but isn't. Maybe a flat piece of fiberglass six inches by 10 inches.
simonmeridew
Tom W Clark posted 04-27-2001 05:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
On a Montauk it's usually a piece of 1/2" or 3/8" teak marine grade plywood held down with four screws. I went without and patched the holes on my two Montauks. The opening is not big and I used the plug to drain my boats instead of a bilge pump (I like to keet things simple) and the cover made it very difficult to reach in there. Also, some boats have steering cabbles that tend to ride towards the front of the opening making it very difficult to keep that piece of plywood in place. (The screws just keep stripping out as the cable pushes it up)
triblet posted 04-27-2001 05:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
On the more recent Montauks, it's black
Starboard.

Chuck

simonmeridew posted 04-27-2001 09:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for simonmeridew  Send Email to simonmeridew     
It looks like if I could get the right piece of fiberglass I could just screw it down and be done with it. But I see what you mean about all the steering cables and gas and oil lines and all maybe pushing it up. I kind of like the idea of a piece of teak or other wood covering about three quarters of the rectangle, leaving enough room to put the plug in etc.
simonmeridew
dfmcintyre posted 04-27-2001 11:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Simon -

I had the same piece of plywood, and know why Whaler went to Starboard. It takes alot of abuse, from waking around on it, water ski's hitting it, general scrapes and dings. And it always stays moist, if not wet and is one of the first pieces of wood on a Montauk that rots.

Check out the West catalog and order a small chunk of Starboard, cut to fit, route the edges and be done with it.

Don

(this from a guy who normally varnishes all his teak....blasphemy!)

simonmeridew posted 04-28-2001 07:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for simonmeridew  Send Email to simonmeridew     
Thanks for your help.
What thickness---3/8 inch?
simonmeridew
lhg posted 04-29-2001 12:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
All of Whaler's marine teak plywood floor sump covers were made from 7/16" thickness.

Don, on my 25 outrage, I had cleaned and sanded the covers so much, that I almost went through the surface veneer. So it was either make new ones from same material (would have had to buy a whole sheet of plywood), make them out of black starboard, or simply clean, sand and VARNISH them.

So I teak (color) stained, then varnished (10 coats), and they came out beautiful, and so far have held up to all the abuse you describe quite well.
(They get walked on ALL the time) Less maintenance work now than the cleaning/oiling was. When they get all scratched up, I'll sand and put on a new coat.

A little trick I have discovered when using BW's typical finishing washer detail over varnished parts, is to do it like they do the console windshields, and use a same size fender washer under the trim ring, so the sharp edges don't cut through the varnish and turn the wood black. Used this detail on my varnished cooler cleats and sump covers. Looks very nice.

Kim posted 04-29-2001 08:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Kim  Send Email to Kim     
what I did ;
got a cutting board ( white plastic) you can get any where . cut it to size , and at the back I left open to reach the drain plug also used a hole saw to cut a 1/2 hole for the cables coming out.
the white looks ok and this has worked very well for me . I'm not to thrilled about useing wood in such a wet place.
OT; in the console I got rid of the plywood and used ABS plastic, 1/4 inch sheets glue together withe ABS glue.one more thing cutting the plastic ? it cuts like wood , and you can use a router to round the edges.
kim.
Tom W Clark posted 04-29-2001 09:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
lhg,

The 7/16" teak plywood thickness you refer to is probably the actual thickness. Nominally the sheet of plywood these parts were made from was sold as 1/2". In the lumber industry, nominal size and actual size are rarely the same. In the case of imported plywood, these are often manufactured to a metric size and when imported to the USA the vendors simply call it the closest fractional size.

I have some teak ply scraps in the shop. It is what is left over from work on my Outrage. This plywood measures nearly the full 1/2". If anybody needs a small piece cut for a sump cover, contact me and if I have a big enough piece I'll cut one out and send it to you.

triblet posted 04-29-2001 10:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The starboard on my '98 is 1/2" thick,
and about 7 3/4" by 8 3/4". And BLACK.

Chuck

Macman posted 04-29-2001 12:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Macman  Send Email to Macman     
I have a question on the drain plug while we are on this topic. I bought my Montauk last year; the plug was located externally. I gather from some of these posts that some folks put the plug inside the bilge sump. Is there a preferred way? Does it matter? The boat is a 95 if that makes any difference.
Thanks!
Bullbay posted 04-29-2001 09:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bullbay  Send Email to Bullbay     
A wood working friend of mine made a new teak piece for my 89 Montauk and charged me $2 for the wood. He is now making the wood side pieces for my new helm seat as I sold my old one to Maria and the new one did not have the side pieces for the brackets. I have not decided yet to oil, varnish or put Cetol on the new seat.
whalertim posted 04-29-2001 09:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalertim  Send Email to whalertim     
Macman, On my Montauk, the plug is located outside the boat. It works just fine. I do have a small rope connected to it and the motor bracket just incase it comes out. By having it on the outside, I think that there may be some force pulling on it when running. Where on the inside you bypass this force. Maybe some of the others can shed somemore light on this subject.
Tim Heath NC
triblet posted 04-29-2001 09:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I can put my plug either externally or in the
bilge sump. I usually put it externally
(easier). The couple of times I've forgotten
it, I've put it in the bilge sump cuz it's
quicker with the boat in the water.

I don't have it on a lanyard, but I carry
two spares, and could steal the one from the
bow locker if need be. I've got about 300
hours on the boat and haven't lost one yet.

I'd really like to have some sort of check
valve in the bow locker, but I haven't been
able to find anything suitable.

Chuck

Tom W Clark posted 04-30-2001 11:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Macman,

I strongly recommend you put the plug on the inside! I think putting the plug on the outside presents several problems.

If the plug falls out, what happens? A cord to retain it? I would be concerned with it being torn off at speed. How do you reach it easily while in the water? A very poor choice.

If the plug is in the bilge you can pull it while on plane and drain the water from the boat. You may want to do this even if you have a bilge pump. Sometimes pumps fail. I never used bilge pumps on my Montauks because it was just too simple to pull the plug and it saved a lot of wiring and complication.

As Chuck points out, it is a good idea to have a spare plug at any rate.

Chesapeake posted 04-30-2001 03:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Regarding the sump covers made from starboard... someone mentioned 1/2 inch material. On the classics, however, the distance or dpeth between the lip of the sump and the deck is only 1/4 inch.

Question: Does whaler leave the 1/2 material as is? In other words, after installation is the cover then proud of the deck by 1/4 inch (a tripping hazard?)or are the underside edges routed such that the top fits flush with the deck?

where2 posted 05-03-2001 02:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for where2  Send Email to where2     
Speaking of plugs on the inside or the outside... Having just had my brass thru the transom drain tube corrode in two, I would suggest keeping the plug on the outside. When the boat is on plane, there is NO drag on the plug. As a for instance, my 10' Zodiac was capable of running 22mph and only had a tapered rubber plug that mated into a plastic socket. It didn't have the compression style design that most larger boats use. It was tethered to the clamp plate on the transom, and rarely (if ever) fell out by itself.
Back to my reasoning, with the plug on the outside, you are subjecting far less of the brass tube to corrosion (presuming your BW has a brass thru-transom drain tube). Mine corroded in two approximately 2" into the transom, which it could only have done if there was enough electrolytic solvent present in the vicinity of two dissimilar metals. With the plug on the outside, you keep your boat in water that is constantly nastier than what you use to wash down your boat, so you have less potential for corrosion in the middle of the tube than if you kept the plug on the inside.
When the tube corrodes through, if the seal at the transom stays tight and the plug is on the outside, you're only allowing what water is in the bilge to seep into the hull. If the plug in on the inside, you're allowing the entire lake/ocean the potential to seep into the hull, or atleast more water than you usually have in the drain-well.
My next thru-transom drain tube will be plastic and PVC... Instead of brass...
"Where2"?
hooter posted 05-03-2001 06:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for hooter    
Where2, not ta dis ya idear, but wid dat plug on da outside o' ya hull, hows ya gonna pull it inna hurry an git goin to drain ya'sef after ya jus took on a big breaker ova da bow? I means, ya plannin on jumpin ova board right then wid ya rig full to da gunnels wid salt watta jus to pull dat plug? Man, mah wife would jus LUVS ta see me abandonnin ship at da foist sign a trouble lak dat wid her in her lil rubba houseshoes an all jus wantin to catch fish! We evva git home she be chasin me roun and roun da trailer wid one o'dem rubba house-shoes jus a wakkin da dickins outta mah hahd! Bout da moment you gits in da water behine dat boat, ya gonna figure out ya gots bigger problems than a lil corrosion in dat brass tube. Ah highly recommend ya jus plan on replacin dat lil tube ever 20 years or so, an keep da plug INside da hull. Could make a big diffrence, makin a lil excitin' incident (in which you play da hero) outta an otherwise potentially very bad day (in which yous is da goat). Whateva ya do, be safe in an' on da watta, ya heah?
Jolly J posted 05-30-2001 11:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jolly J  Send Email to Jolly J     
Re transom drain plugs. I would also prefer to have the plug on the inside so that its easier to get to in an emergency. The problem is that I can't put the plug in from the inside on my 1988 17 footer. there is a rib on the inside flange of the brass transom tube. (Looks like the tube was distorted when it was installed). If I force the plug in from the inside (needs to be greased) I have to knock it out from the transom side with a long bar. Its so tight, that I can't pull it out.
Has anyone else ever run into this problem?
Any info on how to repair or replace this tube?
Thanks
Tom W Clark posted 05-31-2001 12:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Jolly J,

Please forgive me for asking the obvious, but is the plug loosened to its narrowest state? By this I mean have you backed off the brass nut on the end of the plug to where the is no compression of the rubber plug? Indeed, have you tried a different plug? I've never seen a drain tube so distorted that a plug could not easily be inserted.

Jolly J posted 05-31-2001 10:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jolly J  Send Email to Jolly J     
Tom W Clark
The nut is backed off as far as it will go. There is enough free play in the rubber plug to let it slide back and forth on the stud about 1/8th inch. I also tried the plug from the bow locker. Still won't go any better.
The bottom 1/3rd of the tube has about a 1/8th inch high lip right where it is flanged over, on the inside of the transom well. Do you think that it might be possible to somehow pound down (flatten) the lip, without damaging it or the boat?
Tom W Clark posted 05-31-2001 11:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Jolly J, you might be able to "pound it down" but I have no experience doing so. I would think a better method might be to use some sort of tapered "tool" and pound that into the drain hole. This would have the benefit of maintaining a nice round shape. I'm trying to think of some common household or shop item that could be used but the only things that comes to mind are a very large metal punch or, perhaps, a sawed off garden tool handle. I would think a tapered piece of hickory like this would work just fine.
jward posted 05-31-2001 12:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for jward  Send Email to jward     
I had a similar problem with a distorted drain tube. I loosened the the nut on the plug and held the rubber portion to a bench grinder (it spins the rubber portion and grinds off some material). Afterwards the plug fit and worked fine (I only ground off the ribbed portion on the plug).
Jolly J posted 05-31-2001 02:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jolly J  Send Email to Jolly J     
Thanks for the tips guys. I think I'll try the grinder route first. That sounds easier than enlargeing the tube. Would have to remove the gas tank, the well cover and the bilge pump to get enough room, although I think that it would be a better fix in the long run. I'll probably try that next time I have the cover off.
Thanks again. Happy Whaling
Jolly J
hauptjm posted 05-31-2001 02:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Regarding Sump Covers (1985 18OR): I took the half-rotted plywood one that was original and created a pattern. From the pattern, I made a new one out of solid teak. Mine was and is hinged right in the middle. Getting to the plug has never been a problem.
Tom W Clark posted 05-31-2001 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Jolly J,

Now you got me thinking....I'm sure jward's idea will work and may even be the best solution but, I did have one other thought:

Expanding on the tapered hardwood plug idea, what if you got a replacement handle from the local hardware store that had the appropriate taper on it somewhere. Cut off a length of it, oh, say 3 inches.

Take a length of 3/8" all-tread (from the hardware store as well) that's long enough to pass through the drain tube. Drill the "plug" the length of it to accept the all-thread. Get a block of plywood or short length of 2x lumber and drill the same sized hole in the middle of it.

Thread the all-thread through the block through the drain tube through to "plug" and spin on a washer and nut on each end of the all-thread. Take a wrench and tighten up the nut that is now just outside you transom and this should draw the tapered plug into the distorted drain tube opening in the sump with considerable force, perhaps enough to true up the drain tube.

Jolly J posted 05-31-2001 08:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jolly J  Send Email to Jolly J     
Tom W Clark,
I like that last idea very much Tom. I'm going to try that first. If it doesn't work, I can always resort to the grinder.

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