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Author Topic:   More bottom paint questions
andygere posted 08-08-2001 12:38 PM ET (US)   Profile for andygere   Send Email to andygere  
Is it worth the money to have a yard bottom paint my Montauk for the first time, or is this a reasonable project to do at home? If the answer is "have a yard do it", what's a fair price to pay assuming about $30 per quart for high quality ablative paint?

If the answer is "do it yourself", is there a clever way to get the boat off the trailer in the driveway, or alternatively, paint the bottom with the boat on the trailer without making it and the driveway blue?

Last question: The Interlux painting guide indicates a "no-sand" method of applying bottom paint, where a primer is used instead of roughing up the gel-coat with sandpaper. I like this idea because in theory, I could restore the hull to an unpainted condition if I later decide to sell it (or just buy a bigger Whaler for the water and use the Montauk off the trailer). Has anyone used this method, and how well did it work?

Again, thanks in advance for the great advice. --Andy

Bigshot posted 08-08-2001 12:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Can easily be done by you. Easier to get it off the trailer. Tie it to a tree and slide it on to blocks or whatever. How long do you plan on keeping it? Reason being you can paint it w/o primer or etching, the paint will come off fairly easy. You may have to touch up a few spots before season ends but if/when you sell it it will strip real easy. Primer can be stripped too but is not easy, nasty stuff too. My whaler has had bottom paint w/o anything and it has held up well. The waterlines are coming off but I am thinking of striping it and am glad it has NO primer or etching and that was originally done by the DEALER.
daverdla posted 08-08-2001 01:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
I did my montauk last june. Used tom clark's advice (its posted somewhere around here). I marked some water lines with a pencil. Then after leveling the boat, I used a water level to mark all the places I had missed. I did sand the hull lightly with 80 grit paper. BTW, I used almost two quarts of Interlux. I used the skinny paint rollers from home despot for most of the painting. They're about 4" wide and 1" diameter.

Bigshot, I was wondering about not priming or sanding. I wish I had known it would last to some degree without sanding, I wouldn't have bothered.

PS - You can try using the site search from google.com to find things on this or any other website. Not totally reliable but it may help. You have to install the toolbar on your browser. I used it with limited success. Uninstalls easily.

Dave

Bigshot posted 08-08-2001 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Bought a 7 year old 15' that was painted every year in my favorite(sarcasm) color Electric light blue(puke). The bottom was never etched and I spent the winter with a razor blade, scraping the paint off. It would kinda flake off but trust me it is on there good enough. Problem is after years and years(7+) it starts to get uneven. Then your bottom looks like the moon surface and eventually will need to be sanded or stripped. This happens even if etched but not as bad. If it was new and you were gonna keep it moored for the next ten years I would NEVER recommend this, but since you said it is temporary, you'll be golden for at lest 5-7 years. Then easier removal. If you etch, you may never be able to buff it shiny again, primer(acid type stuff) maybe.
Bigshot posted 08-08-2001 02:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Ps you will need 2 coats for the 1st shot, get another qt. The directions say 2 coats every year, bah humbug! I keep my boat in 365 a year and get at least a year on 1 coat, I also do NOT recommend diluting it. In NJ my dad paints one season and then then touches up for the 2nd. Never has a problem and we use Petit unipoxy. That bottom is clean cause there is probably only 3 coats of paint left on it cause most wears off before painted again.
Outraged posted 08-08-2001 05:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Outraged  Send Email to Outraged     
If your not going to rough it up, at least you go over the bottom with Dewaxer as recommended by most paint companies.
andygere posted 08-08-2001 07:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Thanks for all the info. I think I may try to just dewax and paint with something like Interlux Micron CSC. I may spend a few bucks and take it to a yard to have the boat lifted off the trailer and set on stands or blocks, since I have very limited space at my house (no backyard access and a small driveway with no convenient overhead tree limbs. Any other suggestions, imput or comments are welcome.
tarbaby posted 08-08-2001 09:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for tarbaby  Send Email to tarbaby     
As a fisherman here in North Carolina I have heard all of these bottom paint woes. Kind of off course here but we like to add a little extra to increase the paints effectiveness. Tetracycline ( from a vet) and crushed red pepper work. Helps keep the slime off.
dgp posted 08-09-2001 07:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
Two years ago I had the bottom painted on a new Dauntless 17 for the first time. It was professionally done by an Intelux authorized boat yard; they're listed on their web site. They used the no sand method and VC Offshore paint and cost was about $500. After the first year some small areas had some flaking.
The VC Offshore is a slick paint but not good for controlling algae. I kept the boat in a covered slip but the stern faced the west afternoon sun and alot of algae grew back there. I think the Ultra formula is better for algae.
Bigshot posted 08-09-2001 09:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Dewaxing is good idea. I never wax my bottom, hard enough doing the sides. When I said tree I meant you tie the ski eyes to a tree, telephone pole, etc and slide it off the triler. Do NOT try and hoist it off.
John W posted 08-09-2001 10:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for John W  Send Email to John W     
Another question regarding bottom paints: my boat is painted with CSC Micron, but it is no longer kept in the water. The soft ablative Micron paint is scraping off each time I launch my boat (it's kept on a bunk style trailer now). I don't need antifouling protection anymore as I never leave the boat in water for more than a week, but I know that the glecoat will never look the same after removing the paint. I want to repaint with a more durable bottom paint. What is my best alternative in bottom paint in terms of dealing with the abrasion of a bunk style trailer?

My choices seem to be a modified epoxy like Trinidad, a vinyl paint like VC Offshore, or a teflon paint like VC-17. I've seen one 2 part epoxy paint made for below the waterline, but it's only available in white, and I don't like the look of that next to tan gelcoat. I do not want to use a topsides paint. Any opinions or suggestions?

Bigshot posted 08-09-2001 02:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Try removing a portion of the paint like on the transom and see how the gelcoat looks. If it has been etched, what I have seen people do is strip the transom and sides and polish up. Strip the botoom roughly and repaint the bottom with a matching awlgrip. To separate the paint from the gel,use a bootstripe.
John W posted 08-09-2001 03:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for John W  Send Email to John W     
Thanks for the suggestion bigshot, but I want to avoid using topsides paint below the waterline, because it'll look shinier than my gelcoat, and because I leave my boat in the water for a week to ten days a couple of times each year. This isn't enough to require antifouling protection, but it is enough to cause topsides paint to blister under the waterline.

I want to repaint with botoom paint, but my only concerns are looks and durability, not anitfouling protection. How durable are the hard vinyl paints like VC Offshore, as compared to traditional modified epoxy paints? Anyone with first hand experience with trailering a bottom-painted boat on a regular basis?

jimh posted 08-10-2001 08:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I am in the process of removing bottom paint from my boat (Whaler 20-Revenge). So far I have been quite pleased with the results, in the mian due to the fact that the bottom paint appears to have been applied without much hull preparation.

My bottom paint is black. It is very ablative. If you wipe it with a wet rag you will have big black streaks on your rag. Underneath the black paint there appears to be a primer coat that is greenish in tint. This has to be sanded off or removed with paint thinner.

The gelcoat is intact under all this paint. In the area where I have removed the bottom paint I have restored the gelcoat with Mequirs #44 Color Restorer. Next step will be buffing with 3M-FinesseIt-II, then a final wax coat. The results so far have been encouraging; you cannot tell there was bottom paint on the boat where I have removed it.

So far I am still working on the transom--you have to take some time off and actually put the boat in the water and use it!

The general opinion is that I have been lucky because the boat's hull was not abraded prior to application of the initial bottom paint. That has been a blessing for me, saving a great deal of work.

Since I plan to use the boat from a trailer almost exclusively, I don't want the bottom paint. It makes the hull line look odd, and I am sure it slows the boat down slightly as well.

I don't know if I will get the bottom paint off the keel area, etc., but after a few years of running I think most of it will be worn off. It is really surprisingly ablative with just water and a rag. With solvents like mineral spirits it comes off very easily!

Tomorrow's project is more scraping on the transom to remove the rest of the bottom paint. I'll post any observations of what works best; I am going to try a couple of techniques.

--jimh

Free Willy posted 08-10-2001 11:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Free Willy  Send Email to Free Willy     
One method of getting the boat off the trailer. Get a supply of concrete blocks (my 13' is sitting in garage on 18), get some wood, 2x4,2x6 and plenty of wood shims.Push the boat back about 18 inches off the trailer. Lower the trailer tongue to the floor and block the stern "yard style" making sure the blocks are stacked the way they would be laid for a wall. Use the wood to close the distance between the blocks and the stern and shim to level,nice and snug. Raise the tongue all the way up. Stack blocks forward, wider than the trailer. Make a beam to go between the stacks of blocks, lower the tongue onto the beam and shim to prevent rocking. You may have to let the air out of the tires to get the trailer out. I have access to the supplies took about 1.5 hrs.
Free Willy posted 08-10-2001 11:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Free Willy  Send Email to Free Willy     
One more thing, a floor jack will help if you want to change the forward beam to a shorter one, then you won't have to walk around it. My boat is 28 inches off the floor. A good height for painting or in my case blister repair. Brgds Bill
andygere posted 08-13-2001 11:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Freewilly,
Thanks for the tips for getting the boat off the trailer. I was working up a similar plan, and I'm glad to know that it works. What about putting the boat back on? Just the reverse?

In terms of paint, I am conflicted about the way to go. I am encouraged that Jim is finding bare hull restoration possible on a boat treated with the no-sand primer and ablative paint. A friend of mine in the boatbuilding business thinks the epoxy based paints are a better way to go, and suggested using an epoxy primer to seal the hull and protect against blistering. Has anyone had blister problems with a Whaler kept in the water for a long time? My old 13 was on a mooring for years before I owned it, and I don't remember seeing any (could have been hidden under layers of bottom paint?).

Anyway, the new Rule Platinum bilge pump is installed and working nicely, and for now, I have the plug in from the outside to preserve my original and pristine drain tube. The boat is in the slip for a short soak and to mark the water line. It sure is a pleasure to simply park, wash, cover and drive home instead of fighting the crowds of gameshow boat idiots at the launch ramp.

andygere posted 08-13-2001 11:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
By the way, the local boatyard quoted me $850 (+ paint) to bottom paint my boat. They charge by the foot of LOA, regardless of beam, keel area etc. Same for lifting my boat off the trailer and onto stands ($255). I will be doing this job myself!
Free Willy posted 08-13-2001 12:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Free Willy  Send Email to Free Willy     
Andy, The boat is still on blocks in the garage. I don't anticipate problems (although there usually is something). After rereading my post the following AM, I didn't note that the forward beam goes under the boat not the tongue. The fumes that night must have been stronger than I thought. Good Luck.
DamselFly posted 02-19-2002 12:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for DamselFly  Send Email to DamselFly     
Hello,

How can I tell if my bottom paint is the sand or no-sand variety? I've got bottom paint on my 13', and I would like to remove it. I'm tempted to just let it wear off this season, and take it off the transom and sides next winter. Once it's off, can I buff out the hull, or do I need to go over it with paint or gel coat or what?

-christen

andygere posted 02-19-2002 03:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Christen, the no-sand system refers to the use of a special primer in lieu of sanding the gelcoat to get the bottom paint to adhere. Any type of anti-fouling bottom paint can be applied on top of it. I used it, with great results. The Interlux brand has a bright silver color, so if it was used you would be able to see it bleeding through as your paint wears off. I am asuming you have an ablative type paint, not the epoxy based type.

BTW, I did the job myself, the boat came off and went back on the trailer without a hitch, and the paintjob/tape stripe looks really good. So far I'm really pleased with the ablative paint, and it is doing a good job of keeping the growth off my hull.

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