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Author Topic:   Floor Screws will not tighten
Cabo posted 08-17-2001 01:13 PM ET (US)   Profile for Cabo   Send Email to Cabo  
I have a 22' Outrage 1985 model. Some of the screws on the floor will not tighten. I was backing out all the floor screws and putting 5200 in the holes and then replacing the screws when I noticed the problem. Any suggestions on repair. I am concerened of water getting by the screw holes and floor coming loose.
triblet posted 08-17-2001 03:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Understand that with 5200 you aren't ever going
to get the screws out in the future. If that's
what you want, OK. 101 will keep the water
out and let you get the screw out later.

Presumably these scrws are through the 'glas
and into the wood beneath. You need to dry
the hole, fill the hole with epoxy, drill,
and put the screw back in. It's all covered
in the West System book on fibreglass repair.


triblet posted 08-17-2001 04:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
You can also epoxy a dowel in to put the new
screw into.


lhg posted 08-17-2001 05:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
The lip of the cover is about 3/4" thick, and the problem is getting down to the actual hull without removing the whole cover, a major job.

Can anyone confirm whether there is actually wood backing in the hull where the covers are screwed on. Wood locating diagrams don't show it. It could be that the screws are only into the glass.

I have this same problem in mine and have yet to figure out how to fix it without removing the whole cover (other than simply using the next size larger screw and countersinking out the screw head recess in the cover for the larger head). Toothpicks might also work.

DIVE 1 posted 08-17-2001 08:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
The best way to repair the stripped holes is to remove the entire deck. Clean out the holes with a slightly larger drill bit. Blow out all shavings with clean compressed air. Syringe acetone into the holes and again blow out with compressed air. Fill holes with slightly thickened epoxy using a syringe to reach the bottom of the holes. Set deck back into hull and redrill screw holes. Remove deck, prethread all screw holes using the correct size screw. Clean up all shaveings and install deck. Use 101 on all deck screws.
We found wood in the tub sides when we worked on DIVE 1.
If you try to use oversize screws, you will have to chamfer the deck holes larger. This will cause you to chamfer through the fiberglass and expose the plywood to water intrusion.
This is not a hard job, just time consuming. This is also a good time to do any repairs to the bottom side of the deck.
Just think about it this way Larry, you will have all winter for this project.
lhg posted 08-17-2001 10:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Thanks, Jim, although as you can imagine, it's not what I wanted to hear! My tank cover has never been off (12 years now) and is slightly warped up front near the side channels. So I know the cover needs some work on the bottom side, with some delaminated plywood. But it's a job I've not wanted to tackle. I'm afraid to think of what might be found underneath!
srd posted 08-20-2001 07:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for srd  Send Email to srd     
A technician at West Epoxy - Goegeon (sp?) Brothers - gave me a the following tip: If you spray "Pam" no-stick cooking spray on a screw or bolt and then embed it in epoxy mixed w/ High Density Filler while it is curing you can later back the screw out. I tried it and it works. My 15 foot Whaler had an add-on center "ice chest" seat (prior owner did it) that was bolted into the deck through the foam. Naturally it pulled out leaving relatively large holes. I decided to reattach the seat by adding bolts in the center where there was embbedded wood, but thought some additional stability would be gained if, in addition to filling the old holes with an epoxy/high density filler mix, I replaced the old bolts, even if the epoxy filler intop which they were screwed was still in the foam. West told me that drilling and threading their epoxy-filler mix usually results in cracking the expoxy when you screw the bolt in. To solve this he suggested spraying the bolt with Pam and then positioning the bolt where I wanted it till the expoxy cured. Much to my surprise after the epoxy cured the bolts backed right out, leaving perfect threads for reattaching the bolts. It appears that the curing of the epoxy is unaffected by the Pam. Hope this method will be of some assistance.
spartanNTX posted 08-21-2001 11:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for spartanNTX  Send Email to spartanNTX     
I am planning on re-filling and then drilling screw holes for my rails on my 1969 13 foot sport with west epoxy and gelcoat(the holes expanded quite a bit and the rails are loose). Srd,
would you suggest that I push the screws covered with pam into the curing epoxy? and afterwards, unscrew the screw, sand the epoxy and work around the hole with the gelcoat? That sounds a little tricky, did you find it difficult at all?
lhg posted 08-21-2001 12:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I strongly recommend Marine-Tex (white) rather than the West product. It's putty like consistency is much easier to work with, and will give you a better job.

Drill out the holes to 1/4" or 3/8", through the wood backer pad. Pack in Marine-Tex, wlhich bonds to both the glass skin and the wood backer pad. Then wet sand the whole area flush, buff up, etc. The Marine tex will polish up like the gelcoat, but when the fittings are installed will not show. No need to re-do the gelcoat under the fitting, unless spider cracks radiating out from the old holes need to be filled. Then redrill the new holes. You'll be very happy with the results. I just re-did the entire bow rail on my 25 this way, and the results are super, better than the new installation.

spartanNTX posted 08-21-2001 01:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for spartanNTX  Send Email to spartanNTX     
Thanks for the reply. I have two probs though- I already ordered the west epoxy :) and The gelcoat is blue. Also, I don't know if there is even any wood behind the area I am mounting the screws. I don't believe that these are load bearing screws. I am just afraid of causing cracking by screwing in screws after I re-finish an area and drill it. I take it that you did not run into any cracking after screwing?
lhg posted 08-21-2001 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
No cracking at all. Just be sure you drill the right size hole. The screw will self tap the Marine-Tex. Gelcoat color doesn't matter, since in my method the white Marine-Tex is completely hidden under the fitting.

That yellow West liquid epoxy is messy stuff to work with, particularly on vertical surfaces. I've seen some sloppy work done with it.

You will find plywood pads at all rail connection places in the 13's and 16's.

LarrySherman posted 08-21-2001 04:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
You could add a fairing compound and pigment to your epoxy to come up with something the right color. I'd contact west for the correct pigment material for there epoxy. I'd use collidial silica as the filler, with 206 or 207 slow hardeners. You would mix up small batches to about ketchup consistancy, and squirt it into your clean holes.

You could do the pam trick as well. In general though, lhg is correct in stating that this can be messy work, and labor intensive compared to the marine tex method.

I personnaly would try 2 screws, 1 each method, and then decide. To do either method correctly, you proably should remove the floor panel.

Good luck, larry

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