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Author Topic:   Re Glassing Old 17
weaverf posted 09-10-2001 11:22 AM ET (US)   Profile for weaverf   Send Email to weaverf  
I have pulled the inside floor and foam out of an old 17 I have and it is now bare to the hull. Foam and inside floor were in terrible shape. I plan on adding stringers and puting a subfloor in. I also plan on adding some foam back in between the stringers. My question is, I want to add some hull strength before I put the stringers in. I plan on reinforcing the corners and keel with mat and weave. I do not know how much or how heavy the glass should be on the inside of the hull. Should I use mat and weave or just weave?? Also how heavy should the mat/weave fabric be and how many layers should I add. I do this as when I look at the hull and see only chop gun work I think I need to add some strength??
LarrySherman posted 09-10-2001 12:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Unless you have ground away the origonal glass, You should not need to add any, at least in concept.

By removing the floor as you have, you are making fundimental changes to the boats design.

Whaler hulls derive much of their strength from the "Unibond" procees, in which a 2 part polyureathane liquid expands and cures between the 2 halves of the hull whicle being pressed together in a steel press. This method of construction is not reproducable at home.

You are absolutly on the right track with the stringers, but I would go farther and put in a grid system. Your boat will need boat longitudanal as well as lateral support, stringers will provide only longitudanal. I would then foam between the grid, and build your floor on top of foam and grid system.

You should get a book about naval architecture before you begin, and perhaps ask pay for a consultation from one in your area.


Hope this helps, Larry

DIVE 1 posted 09-10-2001 10:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Weaverf,
I have done the same thing on BWs in the past and it is no easy job. You will have to install at least 5 stringers. The factory foam process is not obtainable on a home repair level. The factory fiberglass will not support the hull without additional fiberglass support. I use at least 2 layers of biaxial matting with vinylester resin from Fiberglast. This seems to give me the highest strength to weight ratio and is easy to work and wet out. The height of your stringers must be correct to support the new deck and the stringers need to be fully encapsulated and matted to the original hull. Do not run any stringers side to side in the hull-this causes hard spots and is prone to hull cracking even under light loads. If you have any questions-just fire away.
Jim
weaverf posted 09-10-2001 11:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for weaverf  Send Email to weaverf     
DIVE1====I use fibreglast stuff but the biaxial mat you mention is not on their supply list on the web page. Is this something special ordered?? I was thinking about 3/4 oz chopped strand mat with two layers of the Bi-directional E-Glass, #1094 / 2x2 twill weave over the mat. Then glass the stringers in. For 5 stringers I assume you should go from transom to front with one in the middle and two on each side equally spaced. I was hoping to get the side to side support from the foam and the false floor. Any info from your experience is helpful===fred
DIVE 1 posted 12-14-2001 08:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Weaverf,
How are you doing on your rebuild? I found out that we were getting vinylester resin and styrene wax from Fiberglast. The 45 degree biaxial cloth with a chopped mat backing is from LBI in Groton, Conn.
Jim
JohnAz posted 12-14-2001 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for JohnAz  Send Email to JohnAz     
I had a Hobie 16,,,dying of old age,,flexing fiberglss,,I installed circular hatches in the deck,,and filled the hulls with 2 part foam it expanded more than the hulls and came out the 8inch hatches,,trimed the excess and sealed the hatches,,,that should work on an opened up whaler with stringers,,,might take lot of inspection holes to fill between the stringers,,,
weaverf posted 12-19-2001 12:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for weaverf  Send Email to weaverf     
I have removed the foam, added two layers of 1708 biaxial on the hull from front to back with vinyl ester resin. Put in 5 stringers front to back out of treated 1 xs. I am adding foam between the stringers. I am turning over to do the bottom and then will turn over to finish the inside. I am going to spray the inside with the truck bed rhino liner and then put in a center console. Hope to be done in the spring. Most said to trash the boat but I think I have turned the corner and I will have a nice whaler for the cost of the boat which was 000. Lots of hours but lots of satisfaction.
Bigshot posted 12-19-2001 12:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
You are a better man than most. Good luck and send us some pics.
DIVE 1 posted 12-19-2001 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Weaverf,
How are you going to attach the center console to the boat? Will it tie into the stringers? Are the 1x stringers wide enough to adequately secure the screws for the console? I have attached 2" wide aluminum to the sides of the stringers for the console screws. The aluminum gets drilled and tapped for the mounting screws. There is no way the wooden stringers will ever absorb any water because of a loose console screw.
On the 13 BW that we gutted, we are not adding any foam. The new fiberglass is strong and we ended up with 18 airtight compartments in the hull after glassing in the floor and new inner side panels. Weight was a big concern and flotation is not a problem with the seperate compartments. My original intention was a fast work boat-50HP, but now my kids decided that it should be their boat. I have not told them that when they move up from their 10' Zodiac with a 3HP motor to a 13'BW that they are only getting a 20HP motor. Hmmmm, maybe I should put some 50HP decals on the 20HP motor.
weaverf posted 12-24-2001 07:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for weaverf  Send Email to weaverf     
I am going to glass small blocks to the stringers for attaching the console. This biaxial with vinyl esther seems really strong compared to regular glass and resin, so I think the blocks will hold fine. As for weight, the finshed project should not be much worse than what was there. The foam with water and the tunnel was pretty heavy.
The floor will be 3/8 treated plywood so with the stringer about 10 inches apart i will have plenty of strength. I do not plan on this being more than a 2 or 3 person boat so I do not think weight will be much of an issue. I chose not to make the area between the stringers water tight. I have holes that will allow water to go from stringer to stringer and hopefully find its way to the back and out of the boat. Where I put the foam I built in small channels for the water to flow out. After seeing what a mess the wet foam is I did not want that again. I will say that i used to do a lot of boat racing and a lot of glassing as a result and this vinyl resin and biaxial is impressive. Other than some of the new kevlar/graphite like fabrics I have not seen much this tough.
crosley95 posted 12-25-2001 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for crosley95  Send Email to crosley95     
Dude!
DIVE 1 posted 12-28-2001 09:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Weaverf,
I was introduced to vinylester and biaxial when looking for a 22'-25' high performance cat hull. All of the high quality, high performance(100+mph) manufacturers(Warlock, HTM, DCB) seem to utilize these materials. Upon further investigation I found out that vinylester is less water permeable than polyester or epoxy. Bonding to polyester for repairs is far superior to using epoxy and it is also compatible with polyester gelcoat. We have done some awesome building and repairing with these materials. I also like the price compared to epoxy-you get a lot more bang for the buck. The only drawback with vinylester is that it itches as bad as polyester.
Jim

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