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Author Topic:   kicker engine installation on mantauk
RSKC posted 10-06-2001 12:33 AM ET (US)   Profile for RSKC   Send Email to RSKC  
help me do this right the first time. I want to install a 9.9 four stroke on a 97 montauk. The main is a 100 merc. I want to control the engine from the console. I'm thinking a bracket mount & steering thru linkage from the main engine. I would appreciate any information on this subject, including locating brackets & control linkage. Is there a problem with tilt if both engines are connected thru steering linkage?
jimh posted 10-06-2001 12:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
See one installation at:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/rendezvous/images/1971Nauset512x403.jpeg

This is part of the 2000-Rendezvous article, a good read itself if you haven't already seen it:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/rendezvous/

RSKC posted 10-11-2001 11:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for RSKC  Send Email to RSKC     
Thanks for the reply Jim. I did read the article and enjoyed it. Ive been fishing for a few days but now I need to get back into this engine installation. I was suprised that I did not get more information. I still believe there are guys out there that have more experience than I have at this and I would appreciate their comments on how to do, or not to do this installation. Thanks Ron
Tom W Clark posted 10-12-2001 12:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Ron,

What you want to accomplish should be no problem.

I would discourage you from mounting the kicker on a bracket, just clamp (and bolt) it right to the transom. It will be easier to reach and stronger to boot.

For steering you definitely want to tie the motors together. You can fix the kicker in one position and use the big motor as a rudder but this really is unsatisfactory for any kind of slow speed maneuvering like trolling.

There are two widely available products on the market that accomplish the connection of the motors: The EZ Steer tie bar that mounts to the midsections of the two motors and another product that I keep forgetting the name of.

The latter consists of a piece of stainless steel allthread which has quick disconnect fittings that attach to ball joints mounted on the front of the motors where it is much easier to reach. This set-up costs less, looks better and is easier to deal with. I used this on my last Montauk and my Outrage 18. Either motor can be tilted without disconnecting the bar and without any interference.

As to controlling the kicker from the helm, it can be done with a dual binnacle mount control. Just run the control cables for the kicker along with the others and away you go.

Having said that I would not necessarily recommend this approach. I had a dual binnacle mount control on my Outrage because I thought it would be the ultimate, but it turned out there were many disadvantages.

First there is the considerable extra expense of the control, cables and installation labor.

Second, the control cables for the kicker had to make some pretty sharp turns to make it into the kicker and when the kicker was tilted the cables got bent even more. Ultimately, the cables were bent past the limits of their flexibility and they got a bit of a permanent bend in them at the motor. This caused the control to be difficult to move. For trolling and motor mooching, precise speed control is critical, and the remote control really compromised this.

Third, it is just that more rigging taking up space and generally cluttering up the boat. The need for shifting is almost irrelevant when trolling (it's almost always in forward) so it really came down to speed adjustment and it proved to be just as easy, if not easier, to control the speed at the kicker itself. Thus I ended up disconnecting the control cables altogether.

Jim Bennett posted 10-12-2001 10:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jim Bennett  Send Email to Jim Bennett     
On my 68 Sakonnet I use a 3.5 hp long-shaft Mariner clamped only to starboard side of transom as Tom suggests. Just leave Mariner set straight and use main engine (115 Merc) rudder to steer from helm. Works fine as trolling motor.
andygere posted 10-12-2001 11:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
On my '79 Montauk, I have a 15 hp short shaft kicker mounted on an OMC bracket. I have a tiller extention for steering and throttle control. It was set up by the previous owner and works fine, but if I had it to do again, I would just put a longshaft directly on the transom. The motor really bangs around quite a bit on the cantelevered bracket, and I think a transom mount would be much stronger. With a 4-stroke, I would not even consider a bracket because of the weight.

Tom's remarks interest me, because my major complaint with my set up is having to reach way over the back of the boat to shift the motor. This can be really tricky when fishing alone and hooked up with a fish while trolling. I had often thought a dual binacle control would be ideal, and even considered converting to one. I do see how the cable bend issue could be a real problem.

Dick posted 10-12-2001 11:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
The steering tie bar assembly that Tom mentioned is made by Golden Eye and as I remember sells for around $50.00 in stainless steel.
Mort posted 10-12-2001 07:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mort  Send Email to Mort     
I have a 5hp Johnson long shaft clamped directly to the starboard transom. I clamp the kicker straight ahead and use the main engine as a rudder. Even at trolling speed it works fine.
kingfish posted 10-13-2001 08:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Ron-

We now have a 6 hp kicker on the camp Montauk jimh references in his North Channel 2000 Rendezvous article, and a 9.9 would work at least as well - we were looking for the lightest weight solution that would allow us to limp home or to shore when needed, but the 9.9 would clearly give you more power and the boat will support it.

I also recommend mounting directly on the transom; BW recommends that as well. We did that with the 6hp on our Montauk, and that's what Bruce Boehle did with the 9.9 on his Newport shown in the photo jimh linked, tied up to our dock. The transom is reverse-sloped where the kicker mounts, but you can shim the installation vertical, and BW has provided wood backing inside the transom in that area for mounting a kicker. I would thru-bolt it in position if possible. (Having said all that, if you already have the motor and it is a short shaft, you may have to use an adjustable bracket in order to get the prop to the necessary depth when running, and to get the kicker to clear the water when not running).

We have not yet run any kind of controls on the Montauk kicker, but I have just finished installing a kicker on our Parker 2520, and will be installing one on my Outrage 22 this winter.

On the Parker, we have the advantage of lots of room and easy routing of cables out of the way and without sharp bends, so we used the dual binnacle mount and keyed electric start up front, and EZ-Steer tie bar. It works very well, but is a little clumsy to snap the steering tie bar on and off; I would much prefer the refernced front tie-bar system mentioned earlier, but we had to mount the kicker on a bracket due to the extreme transom height of the Parker, and that (mounting the kicker on a bracket) negates the ability to use the front tie-bar.

I can't tell for sure, but it looks from the photo that Bruce Boehle is using a front tie bar on the installation on his Newport. That is what we will probably do on our Montauk, but at this point it is doubtful we will run dual front controls due to our preference, like Tom Clark's, to keep from cluttering things up on a smaller boat with cables, etc.

Keep us posted-

kingfish

kingfish posted 10-14-2001 07:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Just a couple of quick clarifications-

1. Bruces boat is a Nauset, not a Newport(sorry, Bruce).
2. Looking more closely at the photo of Bruces *Nauset*, I can clearly see the EZ-Steer sockets on the lower units of both motors (sorry,all).

Slinking back to my corner-

kingfish

Jake K posted 10-14-2001 12:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jake K  Send Email to Jake K     
Ron,I think we should check into the "Golden Eye" tie-bar mentioned by andygere and Dick. If that doesn't look like something desireable, we can try mounting in fixed position and see how the Merc works as a rudder. Would another option would be to have someone at the back operate the tiller for trolling?
RSKC posted 10-14-2001 02:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for RSKC  Send Email to RSKC     
Just checked the site and I'm happy to see comments from so many Whaler guys.
I can also see that my orginal ideas on the installation has flaws.
I have to agree that a bracket mount for a 4 stroke is not ideal, as this boat is often trailered a thousand miles or more, one way. I wanted the convience of control fron the console but if operation is not smooth, I don't need it. Reading the first paragraph from Kingfish made me realize this is more for insurance than anything else. I fish in some very remote places, often alone. I live in the midwest where Whalers & whaler dealers are rare so when I tell you how much I appreciate your help, I know you understand. I have several other whaler projects planned so i'm thanking you in advance for your help with them. Ron
RSKC posted 10-14-2001 02:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for RSKC  Send Email to RSKC     
Jake K. I agree. Check Killingers for the tie bar for merc 4 stroke. Ron

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