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Author Topic:   Gorilla Glue? floor laminate option?

Cpt Quint posted 03-18-2002 05:45 PM ET (US)
Outrageman posted inquiry on this product.
Im curious to know if it could be used as a floor relaminate. Will it adhere to 2 non-wood surfaces? Will it melt the foam? (West sytems I have used in the past but it realy heats up and I feel certain that it melts the foam away.)Will it expand, therefore warping the deck? Im looking for alternatives to west sytems re-laminating technique because I have a hard time beleivng that it does not react poorly to the foam.

simonmeridew posted 03-18-2002 06:55 PM ET (US)
Good Question.
I just bought a bottle today to try on my '84 Montauk. The front corners of my console evidently had been loose at some point in it's past, and hogged out the fiberglas deck underneath it. There's wood framework support under these holes, but in places just foam, and I'm going to try the Gorilla Glue trick to fill these in, then gelcoat over top. This was potentially an area of major water ingress into the hull so I want to make sure it's sealed. The bottle says use it from 40 degrees to 130 degrees; right now it's about 20 out, so it'll be a few weeks before this job will get done.
Evidence of the console being loose in the boat's past life include new hold down holes being drilled in the flange, probably because the originals were stressed till the screws pulled out.
Have some desert tan spectrum on order to dress up whatever repairs I come up with.
simonmeridew
Chesapeake posted 03-18-2002 09:15 PM ET (US)
Quint: Have used gorilla and west extensively. gorilla does tend to expand from joint into a foam. Normally, you just trim off from a glue joint with a knife. The application you are thinking of is really quite different.
If it were me, I'd probably use the West, but a suggestion would be to mix up about three pumps worth, put in some filler so that it lumps and then drop it on a piece of test foam to see if it melts it.
Likewise Simon, I would think about the West. It is suitable as a filler or a waterproofing agent / barrier, not just as a waterproof adhesive as Gorilla is.
My 2 cents
Dick posted 03-18-2002 09:21 PM ET (US)
I go with Chesapeake on this one. I have used Gorilla glue in woodworking and it is great, but for what you are going to do I would go with the West system.
Cpt Quint posted 03-19-2002 10:15 AM ET (US)
thanks for the responses. Does anyone know if
using the slower hardners (206&7 i think)allow a cure that does not heat up so much??
The 205 absolutely gets hot to the touch.
Chesapeake posted 03-19-2002 10:42 AM ET (US)
Quint: As you probably know, it tends to be the amount of epoxy that you mix up and how long you leave a batch in a pot that correlates with heat build up.
Case in point. If you mixed a three pump mix of epoxy in a 10 oz. plastic cup and left it there, it would likely heat up pretty good. If you added filler so it couldn't move in the cup, I can almost guarantee, it will smoke and maybe melt the cup.
If you were to take a similar 3 pump mix and after waiting the minute or so to fully activate, were to spread it out on a wide surface - even with a foam roller - there will be little if any heat generated.
Perhaps some the site's physics experts, and we got 'em here, can explain why the surface area is "the thing" with epoxy.
But to the point, I think that as long as you spread it out thinly on your floor re-laminate, it will work well. An additional though, it may be advisable to first paint both surfaces to be joined with unthickened epoxy... just enough to wet the surface. Then to bond, use an epoxy with a little filler to give it a slow honey consistency and use that inside of the sandwhich. It will bond better and longer that using unthickened alone or thickened alone... at least that has been my experience.
Cpt Quint posted 03-19-2002 06:44 PM ET (US)
Chesapeake, thanks for advise. My issue is that the area to relaminate is not too large so i am trying not to cut out but simply drill holes and squirt into the void. That can cause the epoxy to heat if trapped and the void is too wide. i was searching for a one part adhesive/filler to squirt into the hole then press down to close and seal the bounce in the deck. I used West in past on other areas, it did relaminante but got very hot as well because it was trapped under the deck.
tobes posted 03-19-2002 08:53 PM ET (US)
Quint, go with west its the real deal and use slow or tropical (206/207)? hardener and try to pack area with bag of ice if need be. 205 hardener kicks off very quickly and generates too much heat for an enclosed space, just ask kingfish about his trim tab experience.
I also have ruined a few enclosed space repair jobs this way and have good success with the slower ones. West puts out excellant literature, very in-depth and covers almost all types of epoxy repair work.

Also check the west section in the radio dept.
tobes

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Author	Topic: Gorilla Glue? floor laminate option?
Cpt Quint	posted 03-18-2002 05:45 PM ET (US) Outrageman posted inquiry on this product. Im curious to know if it could be used as a floor relaminate. Will it adhere to 2 non-wood surfaces? Will it melt the foam? (West sytems I have used in the past but it realy heats up and I feel certain that it melts the foam away.)Will it expand, therefore warping the deck? Im looking for alternatives to west sytems re-laminating technique because I have a hard time beleivng that it does not react poorly to the foam.
simonmeridew	posted 03-18-2002 06:55 PM ET (US) Good Question. I just bought a bottle today to try on my '84 Montauk. The front corners of my console evidently had been loose at some point in it's past, and hogged out the fiberglas deck underneath it. There's wood framework support under these holes, but in places just foam, and I'm going to try the Gorilla Glue trick to fill these in, then gelcoat over top. This was potentially an area of major water ingress into the hull so I want to make sure it's sealed. The bottle says use it from 40 degrees to 130 degrees; right now it's about 20 out, so it'll be a few weeks before this job will get done. Evidence of the console being loose in the boat's past life include new hold down holes being drilled in the flange, probably because the originals were stressed till the screws pulled out. Have some desert tan spectrum on order to dress up whatever repairs I come up with. simonmeridew
Chesapeake	posted 03-18-2002 09:15 PM ET (US) Quint: Have used gorilla and west extensively. gorilla does tend to expand from joint into a foam. Normally, you just trim off from a glue joint with a knife. The application you are thinking of is really quite different. If it were me, I'd probably use the West, but a suggestion would be to mix up about three pumps worth, put in some filler so that it lumps and then drop it on a piece of test foam to see if it melts it. Likewise Simon, I would think about the West. It is suitable as a filler or a waterproofing agent / barrier, not just as a waterproof adhesive as Gorilla is. My 2 cents
Dick	posted 03-18-2002 09:21 PM ET (US) I go with Chesapeake on this one. I have used Gorilla glue in woodworking and it is great, but for what you are going to do I would go with the West system.
Cpt Quint	posted 03-19-2002 10:15 AM ET (US) thanks for the responses. Does anyone know if using the slower hardners (206&7 i think)allow a cure that does not heat up so much?? The 205 absolutely gets hot to the touch.
Chesapeake	posted 03-19-2002 10:42 AM ET (US) Quint: As you probably know, it tends to be the amount of epoxy that you mix up and how long you leave a batch in a pot that correlates with heat build up. Case in point. If you mixed a three pump mix of epoxy in a 10 oz. plastic cup and left it there, it would likely heat up pretty good. If you added filler so it couldn't move in the cup, I can almost guarantee, it will smoke and maybe melt the cup. If you were to take a similar 3 pump mix and after waiting the minute or so to fully activate, were to spread it out on a wide surface - even with a foam roller - there will be little if any heat generated. Perhaps some the site's physics experts, and we got 'em here, can explain why the surface area is "the thing" with epoxy. But to the point, I think that as long as you spread it out thinly on your floor re-laminate, it will work well. An additional though, it may be advisable to first paint both surfaces to be joined with unthickened epoxy... just enough to wet the surface. Then to bond, use an epoxy with a little filler to give it a slow honey consistency and use that inside of the sandwhich. It will bond better and longer that using unthickened alone or thickened alone... at least that has been my experience.
Cpt Quint	posted 03-19-2002 06:44 PM ET (US) Chesapeake, thanks for advise. My issue is that the area to relaminate is not too large so i am trying not to cut out but simply drill holes and squirt into the void. That can cause the epoxy to heat if trapped and the void is too wide. i was searching for a one part adhesive/filler to squirt into the hole then press down to close and seal the bounce in the deck. I used West in past on other areas, it did relaminante but got very hot as well because it was trapped under the deck.
tobes	posted 03-19-2002 08:53 PM ET (US) Quint, go with west its the real deal and use slow or tropical (206/207)? hardener and try to pack area with bag of ice if need be. 205 hardener kicks off very quickly and generates too much heat for an enclosed space, just ask kingfish about his trim tab experience. I also have ruined a few enclosed space repair jobs this way and have good success with the slower ones. West puts out excellant literature, very in-depth and covers almost all types of epoxy repair work. Also check the west section in the radio dept. tobes