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Author Topic:   Bow rail woes...machine screw???

simonmeridew posted 04-14-2002 08:42 PM ET (US)
I had to take the vertical rail stauncheon fitting off my bow rail on my Montauk this afternoon. The screws are machine screws, about 2" long.
But... where did the nuts go? I can't engage anything with the screw now. either side of the fitting. The screw just slides all the way in with no resistance. So now what do I do? I'm thinking inject thickened West System into the holes and use a long stainless woodscrew in place of the machine screws. What did anyone else do?
simonmeridew
JBCornwell posted 04-14-2002 09:00 PM ET (US)
What year is your Montauk, Simon?
Up until sometime in the 90s the fittings were held by wood screws screwed into plywood backing moulded into the hull. They would loosen, water would get in and rot the wood, Then we had to repair them.
In the 90s, BW switched to a composite backing called Whaleboard, but continued using wood screws. The screws sheared the heads off because the Whaleboard held them too rigidly. The fix is to drill out the holes and tap them for 1/4 x 20 machine screws. The Whaleboard holds the machine screws very well.
It is unclear what you have, but it may be a botched fix. . .screwing the machine screw into a wood backing. Guaranteed to strip.
Let us know.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
simonmeridew posted 04-14-2002 09:25 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the reply. '84 Montauk.
They are definitely machine screws, flat head slotted on the head, flat(no point) on the other end. When they came out, it felt like metal on metal threads. There was probably 5/16 inch of threads engaged in the nut. Like all I needed to do was put them in when I replaced them. I needed to unscrew the fitting because I had to get at the horizontal fitting on the deck because the screws were stripped there and I had to repair this. But once this was repaired, I said, no problem, just screw these other two babies in the vertical holder and it's in for dinner. Wrongo. Now When I move the screws up and down(and not as much side to side) I can feel mostly foam. I tried using a long nail as a pathfinder, no one home. Looking for suggestions
simonmeridew
simonmeridew posted 04-15-2002 08:23 PM ET (US)
OK
The lost has been found...
After stuffing 20 or so half toothpick pieces covered with thickened West system into the two holes, and screwing in two stainless screws to fasten the staunchion to the fiberglas,....I got off the boat--it's in my driveway... to admire the boat in the sunset, and OOOOHHHH NNNNOOOO. what are those two holes doing in the outside of the hull, and what are all those gooey toothpicks doing sticking out.???
Then I looked down on the ground.
My Montauk has/had/has a green metal reflector thingy on the hull under the rubrail. And guess what holds it on the boat.?? The two machine screws from the inside of the hull that hold the bowrail staunchion on.
So I dug the gooey toothpicks out, took out the two stainless screws holding the rail piece, put in the machine screws and tightened them up and pulled the metal reflector up tight on the outside of the hull.(somewhere there I put some 4200 in the holes to seal them) End of story. Time to eat crow.
Turns out the first fittings, port and starboard, screw into these metal thingys on the outside of the hull.
You never stop learning do you.
simonmeridew
Clark Roberts posted 04-16-2002 07:48 AM ET (US)
These were commonly referred to as "sandwich plates" in the olden days!
whalebone posted 04-16-2002 09:33 AM ET (US)
Make some dowels out of pressure treated wood (greenwood,rotproof wood)and then epoxy them over then use stainless squarebit deck screws to sink in also a dab of 5200 adhesive would make in water tight. You should be able to do a forward somersault afterwards.

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Author	Topic: Bow rail woes...machine screw???
simonmeridew	posted 04-14-2002 08:42 PM ET (US) I had to take the vertical rail stauncheon fitting off my bow rail on my Montauk this afternoon. The screws are machine screws, about 2" long. But... where did the nuts go? I can't engage anything with the screw now. either side of the fitting. The screw just slides all the way in with no resistance. So now what do I do? I'm thinking inject thickened West System into the holes and use a long stainless woodscrew in place of the machine screws. What did anyone else do? simonmeridew
JBCornwell	posted 04-14-2002 09:00 PM ET (US) What year is your Montauk, Simon? Up until sometime in the 90s the fittings were held by wood screws screwed into plywood backing moulded into the hull. They would loosen, water would get in and rot the wood, Then we had to repair them. In the 90s, BW switched to a composite backing called Whaleboard, but continued using wood screws. The screws sheared the heads off because the Whaleboard held them too rigidly. The fix is to drill out the holes and tap them for 1/4 x 20 machine screws. The Whaleboard holds the machine screws very well. It is unclear what you have, but it may be a botched fix. . .screwing the machine screw into a wood backing. Guaranteed to strip. Let us know. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
simonmeridew	posted 04-14-2002 09:25 PM ET (US) Thanks for the reply. '84 Montauk. They are definitely machine screws, flat head slotted on the head, flat(no point) on the other end. When they came out, it felt like metal on metal threads. There was probably 5/16 inch of threads engaged in the nut. Like all I needed to do was put them in when I replaced them. I needed to unscrew the fitting because I had to get at the horizontal fitting on the deck because the screws were stripped there and I had to repair this. But once this was repaired, I said, no problem, just screw these other two babies in the vertical holder and it's in for dinner. Wrongo. Now When I move the screws up and down(and not as much side to side) I can feel mostly foam. I tried using a long nail as a pathfinder, no one home. Looking for suggestions simonmeridew
simonmeridew	posted 04-15-2002 08:23 PM ET (US) OK The lost has been found... After stuffing 20 or so half toothpick pieces covered with thickened West system into the two holes, and screwing in two stainless screws to fasten the staunchion to the fiberglas,....I got off the boat--it's in my driveway... to admire the boat in the sunset, and OOOOHHHH NNNNOOOO. what are those two holes doing in the outside of the hull, and what are all those gooey toothpicks doing sticking out.??? Then I looked down on the ground. My Montauk has/had/has a green metal reflector thingy on the hull under the rubrail. And guess what holds it on the boat.?? The two machine screws from the inside of the hull that hold the bowrail staunchion on. So I dug the gooey toothpicks out, took out the two stainless screws holding the rail piece, put in the machine screws and tightened them up and pulled the metal reflector up tight on the outside of the hull.(somewhere there I put some 4200 in the holes to seal them) End of story. Time to eat crow. Turns out the first fittings, port and starboard, screw into these metal thingys on the outside of the hull. You never stop learning do you. simonmeridew
Clark Roberts	posted 04-16-2002 07:48 AM ET (US) These were commonly referred to as "sandwich plates" in the olden days!
whalebone	posted 04-16-2002 09:33 AM ET (US) Make some dowels out of pressure treated wood (greenwood,rotproof wood)and then epoxy them over then use stainless squarebit deck screws to sink in also a dab of 5200 adhesive would make in water tight. You should be able to do a forward somersault afterwards.