Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  repowering 84 outrage 18

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   repowering 84 outrage 18
kdc posted 04-30-2002 08:59 AM ET (US)   Profile for kdc   Send Email to kdc  
any thoughts/ideas/recc on replacing old evinrude 140...will be using boat offshore daytona beach area...approx 40 mi. I like the range/effic/enviro aspects of the 4 strokes. Is the weight going to be an issue if I chose max horsepower ? What would be a good match for the boat and use ? Are trim tabs necc ? thanks.
Wild Turkey posted 04-30-2002 09:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Wild Turkey  Send Email to Wild Turkey     
kdc:

I think the largest 4-stroke applicable to your boat is the Suzuki 140HP. I think a couple of forum members have that setup (JB?). The large Yamaha 4-strokes (200HP & 225HP) are too big and heavy. Yamaha, Mercury & Johnson do not make the smaller 4-stokes larger than 100HP.
I my opinion is there's a large 4S gap between 100HP and 200HP. This leaves classic 18 Outrage owners (wanting to repower with 4 stokes) without many options.

Maybe twins?.... weight maybe an issue though

I don't think you would have a problem with the 140HP Suzuki on your Outrage.
Chris

peteinsf posted 04-30-2002 07:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for peteinsf    
Is it an '84 motor? In 1985 the loop changed OMC 120/140 came out and it gets much better miliage then the 1984 and older motors.

I used to travel 35+ mi offshore with a '86 140 and a 26gal tank.

Any of the 2-stroke v4 135s (merc or evinrude) would give you better range than what you have now. (4-stroke even better) I would guess that a 135 of today would out perform your motor also.

reelescape1 posted 04-30-2002 09:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
I used to have an '84 18 OR with a Yam 150....great combo!!
acseatsri posted 04-30-2002 10:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
After having an OMC 150 hp V-6, I'd opt for a somewhat lighter 4-cyl if I were to repower. If you're running offshore, you can hardly ever use even close to full throttle- I find myself usually cruising at 2700-3000 rpm. A LITTLE less HP wouldn't bother me one bit, say 115 or more. Another benefit would be slightly better fuel consumption for 4 cyl vs. 6. I think the 140 Suzuki 4S is the perfect match.
kdc posted 05-01-2002 08:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for kdc  Send Email to kdc     
Appreciate the feedback...the suzuki looks good as the 4s choice. approx wt 400lbs about the same as a 115 yam 4s and about 2k cheaper...was quoted 8k for install w/controls...anywhere cheaper?? anybody have this motor ??
jimh posted 05-02-2002 01:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
How about twin 90-HP 2-strokes? A pair of Mercury 90-HP engines would weight about 600#, you'd be at 180-HP, and have some advantages for offshore and trolling.

An 18-Outrage will plan with 90-HP, so you could get home fast even on a single engine.

PMUCCIOLO posted 05-02-2002 03:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
jimh,

I know virtually nothing about twin power, and I have a few questions:

Do the engines have to be counter rotating?

Even thought the boat has a minimum HP rating of 90HP, will it plane with one engine tilted up if twin 90's are installed?

Does the engine's being off centerline (in a twin installation) affect the ability to plane the boat?

I was on a 31 Ocean Master with twin 200HP Merc's that would NOT plane when one of the engines blew. However, when one of the newly installed 225HP Merc's blew the boat planed just fine. [I'm NOT picking on Merc's; I'm just relating the facts!] The engines in that installation were not counter rotating, which, according to the owner, were not necessary due to the nearly flat deadrise at the transom. The boat planed with no leaning or excessive steering torque at the helm.

How will the "V" and sponson configuration of the 19 affect it's attitude when tring to plane on one engine?

Is this more pronounced on the larger Whalers?

Thanks,
Paul

george nagy posted 05-02-2002 09:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
In case you hadn't read I'm currently repowering my 87 18' outrage with a 1997 johnson ocean pro. I had a 150 evinrude and it was at the end of it's life. I would not opt for something smaller in power than what you have this boat can be bogged down easily with gas people and gear. I fish in the atlantic south of you and sometimes I need all that power to navigate in high sea conditions.
tbyrne posted 05-02-2002 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for tbyrne    
I had a 1982 Outrage 18 with a 150 and it hauled. I think you could use less than 150 if you're not a speed demon. That leaves you with plenty of 4-stroke choices: Suzuki 140, Honda 130, Suzuki 115, Mercury 115, and Yamaha 115.

I bet the 140 and 130 would outrun your old 140 and that the 115's would keep pace nicely. If you really need to fly, get a two-stroke 150 - it'll be a LOT cleaner than your 140.

lhg posted 05-02-2002 02:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Paul: If CR engines are available in a given brand, I believe they should always be used.

With Mercury and Yamaha, the large gearcase engines always have CR available, all HP's.
With Mercury, this begins at 135HP, with Yamaha, 115 HP, and with E/J, also 150HP.

Have never heard of a twin 225 installation, any brand, without CR. Your friend must have
taken a leftover engine situation or something like that, or the Dealer gave him a "song and dance". Have never heard of such bad luck with Mercury V-6's, either. Maybe the problem wasn't the engines, on that big heavy 31! Just got back from a few days in Islamorada, and single and twin Merc V-6 installations are all over the place in that section of the Keys, twice as many as the other brands combined. Also spotted a LOT of Yamaha 115 & 225 4-strokes, which seem to be very popular. But no 80's or 100's. Everybody must want the EFI system.

acseatsri posted 05-02-2002 02:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
"I would not opt for something smaller in power than what you have this boat can be bogged down easily with gas people and gear."

You're probably spinning too much prop for the load then. When carrying heavier loads or pulling skiers, try propping down 1 size. It'll be a lot easier to maintain plane at lower RPM's.

george nagy posted 05-02-2002 03:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
I used to use two props on my old 87 150, a 15x17 and a 14.5x19. The 18's large fuel capacity can be an advantage and a disadvantage at times. When planing with 3/4 tank with a livewell, gear and 4 or more people the boat tends to want as much power as it can get especially in seas conditions 3-5 or over. I probably wouldn't want less than a 130.
alan posted 05-02-2002 05:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for alan  Send Email to alan     
I repowered my '82 18 with a 150 Optimax(from a 150 Johnson). Great setup, weight is an issue. Put the battery in a cutout in the console as well as the oil tank. I like it this way, cleaner and protected, relly don't lose much space in the console. I run out 20 miles troll for two hours and come back using 6 gallons of gas. Nice.
acseatsri posted 05-02-2002 06:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
"I run out 20 miles troll for two hours and come back using 6 gallons of gas."

40 miles on 6 gallons of fuel? Very hard to believe.

kdc posted 05-03-2002 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for kdc  Send Email to kdc     
I am putting the batts in the console...space is an issue though. not much of it. I am still pondering the power...lots of ideas...will let you know what I do and how it works out. thanks
crashq posted 05-08-2002 04:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for crashq  Send Email to crashq     
I, too, have an Outrage 18 (1983) with an Evinrude 140 that I am looking to repower. The only drawbacks are 1) price and 2)weight.

The Evinrude 140 (four cylinder) is listed at 319 lbs. I wanted to switch to a four stroke, but most of them are very heavy. The options are Suzuki 140 (421 lbs), Honda 130 (505lbs), Honda 115 (505lbs), Yamaha 115 (400lbs). For the power, the Suzuki seems like the only real option.

I was all set to buy a Suzuki 140 at the local boat show (for $8900), but someone pointed me to a BBS that had a lot of upset Suzuki owners on it. They didn't have anything bad to say specifically about the 140 because most owned other models, but they did have something to say about the customer servic on warranty issues. By their accounts the customer service was atrocious. Many of them were waiting 5-10 months for parts, after having to fight with the company to get them sent out. Some of these parts then failed. They may be good motors, but that BBS sure convinced me to wait and see on the Suzuki.

Here in California, HPDI or 4-stroke motors are required, which means more money. The list on a Yamaha HPDI 150 is pushing $14k. When you add sales tax, a new set of controls, and installation it is more than $15k. The Mercury Optimax is not too far behind (~$1k). I am in no hurry to spend that kind of money, unless I am sure that the producti is realiable and company is reputable. I personally would stick to a 2-stroke EFI (or HPDI if you can afford it) for now. Yamaha will probably come out with a 140 or 150/175 4-stroke in the next year or two if you can wait (unfortunately, I can't). This seems to be the hardest power class of motors to get the right balance of weight, power, and torque. I think that is why they are the last ones coming out.

lhg posted 05-08-2002 05:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
If you must have a clean engine, the most bang for your buck on an 18 Outrage would be a 135 Optimax at $9100. It'll run rings around that old Evinrude large bore four. For the price, nothing will touch it in performance, torque, reliability or gas mileage, and it's 3 star rated. These things basically run like a 150 Opti, which would be $1500 more. The Yamaha prices you are quoting are ridiculous. Since those engines come from Japan, I would think they would be cheapest on the west coast, but evidently not so.

The weight of any single engine on an 18 Outrage is not an issue, even the overweight Honda. I have 610 lbs of twin Merc 115's on mine, setback 10" on 20 lb brackets.

kdc posted 05-10-2002 08:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for kdc  Send Email to kdc     
very good feedback but makes everything less clear...ihg I spoke with a merc dealer here in town and was told to steer clear of the optimax's since they " are blowing up " says they've had 47 motors come through the past year or so and are " tired of fixing them "

crash, I appreciate the warranty input...I thought the suzuki was a good choice for now.
Dont want to wait either...still thinking about it.

PMUCCIOLO posted 05-10-2002 08:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
kdc,

Consider the carb or EFI brand of your preference. The 150's I give consideration are the (in alphabetical order to avoid ruffling any feathers!) Johnson 150, Mercury 150 (or 150EFI), or Yamaha 150 (or 150Ox66EFI). Don't forget to press the dealer a bit about rigging costs, steering, and such. You'll find that there's quite a variation in these costs from dealer to dealer, even if the brand of the engine is the same!

Paul

lhg posted 05-10-2002 12:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
KDC - That Mercury dealer in Daytona Beach, if correctly quoted, is JUST PLAIN WRONG about the Optimax engines. This is the kind of mis-information we try to avoid on this site. I wonder what other brand of engines he sells.

I have talked to a lot of highly reliable Mercury dealers, some in FL also, and they say the 135-175 Opti's are practically bullet-proof, the BEST of any of the DFI's, including Yamaha. Several Owners on this site could also confirm this. The 135 is the ONLY DFI engine that gets the 3 star rating. It was the 3 liter Opti's (200 & 225) that have had some earlier problems, but I understand the 2002's in this HP range are also excellent.

How about posting the name of that Mercury Dealership in Daytona? Let's see if they'll own up to their comments. Since the Mercury/Whaler folks undoubtedly read this site, someone in Fond-du-Lac might be interested in talking to him!

jstachowiak posted 05-10-2002 03:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for jstachowiak  Send Email to jstachowiak     
Did you just buy that boat from an attorney in Ormond Beach? If so, you beat me out by a day. Was it as good as it sounded?
kdc posted 05-10-2002 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for kdc  Send Email to kdc     
Ihg,
I had heard about the merc engine issue (or non-issue) from yamaha guys before...but I always consider the source (of course) and did'nt think much about it...but when you hear that from a merc dealer...well thats a different story altogether. It made no sense to me at all. In fact my next door neigbor has an optimax 150 on their ANGLER (hint hint) and have'nt had problem one.

hey! I'm just looking for a good motor and if I'm plunking down 10k or so I want it to be a good safe investment...if there is such a thing.

thanks again for the feedback.

Kevin

kdc posted 05-10-2002 04:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for kdc  Send Email to kdc     
jst, well the boat is gutted at the moment and is drying out in the nice hot florida sunshine...yes and no to your questions.

zpeed7 posted 05-11-2002 01:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for zpeed7  Send Email to zpeed7     
Hello KDC: I also own a 1985 Outrage 18 which I'm currently rebuilding. It's powered by a 1994 150 Evinrude which works fine, never had any mayor problems with it. Given that I also like to fish offshore, If I had to repower, I'd definitely go with twin Yamaha 90's. Can't beat the safety of twins. If I HAD to repower with an single I think I would go with a 175HP Evinrude FICHT. It's a lot lighter than it's competitors and offers pretty good gas mileage, would wait to see if Bombardier fixed all those problems though. Being one of those people to whom fast is never fast enough, I would never go below 150HP. Not that I'm a speed demon, but I like to have the power when I need it, like when I want to avoid a squall ect... ;)

I also agree with lhg, weight seems to be a non-issue with this boats, the previous owner bought it new and installed a 225hp Johnson and kept it that way until 94 when he replaced it with the 150. I have yet to see a stress crack on the transom. You could probably get away with hanging a Yammie 250 back there if you wanted.

Good Luck,
zpeed7

SSCH posted 05-11-2002 08:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for SSCH  Send Email to SSCH     
I owned an 18 Outrage several boats ago. It had a Yamaha 130 Hp (Carb) engine. The V4 130 ran only a few knots slower than the then popular 150 Yamaha V6 on the same boat. The lighter transom weight of the four and better fuel economy made a great combination. If I had it to do over and didn't need a "clean" engine, I'd use exactly the same combination. I never ran the boat anywhere near fully loaded and that may have made a difference. It did make a number of offshore runs with two or three on board (maybe 25nm or so). Never had a feeling of lack of power.

As to twins, I now own a twin engine boat. If you have the patience to keep up with two engines and need the power that's fine. If you can use a single (with a kicker if you need to get home) and you don't, you're crazy!

PMUCCIOLO posted 05-11-2002 08:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for PMUCCIOLO    
kdc,

A few suggestions: Do not exceed the BIA HP rating for the boat as indicated on the plate affixed to the hull. Depending on what you'll be doing with the boat, I'd recommend single power for an 18 footer. Don't get me wrong--twins have their advantages, but not for the application you suggest. The cost of rigging, maintenance, and the like will be higher. Get the lightest engine available in the HP range you're considering, the boat's performance will improve markedly. Sometimes it's beneficial, depending upon your use, to get a lower HP, lighter, and more compact engine. The cruising speed may be reduced marginally, but the benefits of decreased fuel consumption, noise, improved trim angle (static and dynamic), and a more open transom far outweight that.

Best of luck in your decision. If I can be of any assistance, as I am in the process of shopping for ANOTHER new engine, feel free to contact me personally.

Paul

kdc posted 05-11-2002 09:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for kdc  Send Email to kdc     
thanks everyone for all the great advice and opinions...

paul, I will be in touch.

thanks again !

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.