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Author Topic:   Montauk Hull Repairs, Trailer Damaged Tips

The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-25-2002 11:03 PM ET (US)
I just finished fixing my 87 Montauk.I had posted about my trailer damage about 7-8-02. I started by putting a second 12 inch Stoltz roller on the center main beam of my trailer for a total of 4 rollers. I will add another to the rear yet. I had to modify the store bought brackets. Jack up the boat to get everything right ect. I had been taking a 5 gallon air tank with me to the boat every day and blowing a bit of water out each time. I had drilled two 1/8 inch holes and three 1/16 holes in the damage area which was a circle about 2" across. This went on for over a week. Searching here I read about vaccum pumping the hull. I have AC equipment and hooked up my vaccum pump to a "Cajen Meat injector needle" I punched it thru apiece of duct tape and hooked up a brake bleeding bottle with two tubes going in from my "Mighty Vac" brake bleeder. I turned on the vaccum pump and water started coming out in a small stream. I vaccummed a total of about 4 hours off and on and drew about 16 oz of water from thye hull before she went dry. I shot a syringe of West Systems 105 epoxy resin with 205 hardener and a bit of West Systems 406 silica filler. I had already ground out the area to a oval about 6" by 10" and beveled it to the gel coat. I only ground down to the green glass. I laid 5 sheets of glas cloth in with the West 105 resin and some 406 filler to thicken as the lay was over my head ,each sheet a bit larger then the next.The next day I sanded and laid one more sheet of glass, then the next day sanded and applyed the 105 resin with some 610 fairing filler added till it was nice and thick. Th repair area was prettysmooth and I applied a thin fairing coat. Today I sanded that smooth ( The 410 is real easy to sand) And painted it with Unepoxy Black bottom paint. You cant tell it was damaged, and it has a good soild ring like the rest of the hull. I have learned several things from this repair. 1. Keep trailer rollers adjusted and do not rely on the standard three rollers on the hull. I would have put the two extras on from day 1 14 years ago If I could have forseen this repair. 2 I learned about the differences between poly resin and epoxy. The poly resins are good above the water line for a none structual repair but the epoxys are better below the water line. You have to paint over the epoxys as special procedures are needed for re gel coating with poly gel coat. 3. I would have been blowing air (gently)into the hull the rest of this summer. The vaccum pump worked like a champ.
4. the West Systems epoxy worked just as it was supposed to.
I will be back on the water this weekend after 3 weeks off in the middle of summer!
My Web page with some Chesapeake Bay Whalering (url)http://trotliner.tripod.com/index.html(/url)
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-25-2002 11:07 PM ET (US)
I will try my web site again trying to get the link to work
http://trotliner.tripod.com/index.html
jimh posted 07-26-2002 04:52 AM ET (US)
Thanks for posting this nice account of your repair experience. That WEST epoxy seems to work well. Over in Maine they're gluing together a huge 150-foot wooden cold-molded sailboat with WEST epoxy. If they make multi-million dollar custom yachts with it, it is probably good stuff.
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-26-2002 08:54 PM ET (US)
I had seen the West System products in boat stores for years.I bought a qt of Evercoat Marine resin, 27 filler and gel coat to do this repair . Then I got to studying the West stuff. I just did not understand what it was and what you needed and it seemed real expensive. Basicly there is one resin (105) and three or four hardeners from fast to slow for the tempurture you are working at. Then there are several fillers to add strenght or thickness to the resin for laying glass over your head or bedding hardware.And two fillers to make up fairing compounds. They also sell regulated pumps that go on the cans for about 9 dollars extra. They give a precise amount of resin to hardener on either a 5-1 ratio or a 3-1 ratio.(look at the pumps to see different hardners have different ratios) and they are calibrated for size A B and C cans ( I bought the smallest size A thats for a quart of 105 resin) Amazingly the pumps can stay on the cans for years..when you need some epoxy just push each pump one stroke for a minimun amount.(pumps can lose prime over a real long time they say so reprime.its like one stroke of the pump)I tried this stuff on several things also at work as tests and it is really strong! It will be real handy around the house for all kinds of repairs.
West System epoxy Can be seen at this page
http://www.westsystem.com
JeffA posted 07-27-2002 03:05 PM ET (US)
I think I may some water in my hull. Can you provide me with some more details for vaccumning the water out of the hull, such as the equipment you used etc. Also, once you evacuate the water, can you patch up the little hole and forget about; I was curious if the foam keeps rotting. I would like to get my Newport painted later this fall, and I would like to make sure I get all the water out first.
Please reply back.
Thanks,
Jeff
JFM posted 07-27-2002 09:26 PM ET (US)
TCE, did you have to use the glass cloth for the repair? Or could you have just used the 105, 205 and 410 to fill in the void. I'm about to make the same repair on a smaller scale and was going with 206 without the cloth. My repair is from wear not damage.
Thanks, Jay
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-27-2002 11:08 PM ET (US)
The vaccum pump is a standard 3 cfm pump. Ac workers use these pumps to service auto and home AC systems.Try rental stores or maybe a AC business could rent you one knowing you are a boater. I attached a in line bottle from a "Mighty Vac" hand held vaccum pump designed to bleed brakes ect. You could rig up anything with two air tight tubes into it.
Now in AC work you pull at least a 27 inch vaccum to draw out moisture by boiling it off, I doubt that I got that much..maybe 5 to 10 inches..a vaccum for sure as you can tell when you remove the cap to pour the water out of the bottle but not 27 -29 inches.((vaccum). I passed as I said the needle thru a 'Cajan Meat Injector " needle..Its a big syringe mad to inject spices into turkeys for deep frying..It has two holes on the end and I passed it thru a piece of duct tape to seal it . there is a similar procedure called "vaccum bagging" A piece of plastic is taped to the hull and a vacuum cup is applied so a vaccum is drawn across a large area..( See West Systems Page above link). I passed it into the hull and when it went deep I could draw nothing..just above the surface of the hull glass it drew water out. I used West Systems FG tape and some Evercoat cloth cut into increasingly larger pieces..6 pieces of glass cloth layed up for the repair, plus as I said I shot a injector of West Systems 105 with some 406 filler into the drilled holes that I placed to drain the water. A couple of 1/8 inch holes are no problem to your hull, and can be fixed by a shot of West systems and a wooden meat skewer as I did.
See my picture of the repair with the Cajen Meat needle in place. the tube goes to the vaccum pump.
http://trotliner.tripod.com/pump.jpg
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-27-2002 11:13 PM ET (US)
I gusee Tripod wont let apicture alone be put up.. try this
http://trotliner.tripod.com/bw.html
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-27-2002 11:43 PM ET (US)
its 1145Pm and I just heard that the 9 miners in Pa trapped since Wed are alive..Thank God! My troubles with my boat are truly small compared to there situation.

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Author	Topic: Montauk Hull Repairs, Trailer Damaged Tips
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 07-25-2002 11:03 PM ET (US) I just finished fixing my 87 Montauk.I had posted about my trailer damage about 7-8-02. I started by putting a second 12 inch Stoltz roller on the center main beam of my trailer for a total of 4 rollers. I will add another to the rear yet. I had to modify the store bought brackets. Jack up the boat to get everything right ect. I had been taking a 5 gallon air tank with me to the boat every day and blowing a bit of water out each time. I had drilled two 1/8 inch holes and three 1/16 holes in the damage area which was a circle about 2" across. This went on for over a week. Searching here I read about vaccum pumping the hull. I have AC equipment and hooked up my vaccum pump to a "Cajen Meat injector needle" I punched it thru apiece of duct tape and hooked up a brake bleeding bottle with two tubes going in from my "Mighty Vac" brake bleeder. I turned on the vaccum pump and water started coming out in a small stream. I vaccummed a total of about 4 hours off and on and drew about 16 oz of water from thye hull before she went dry. I shot a syringe of West Systems 105 epoxy resin with 205 hardener and a bit of West Systems 406 silica filler. I had already ground out the area to a oval about 6" by 10" and beveled it to the gel coat. I only ground down to the green glass. I laid 5 sheets of glas cloth in with the West 105 resin and some 406 filler to thicken as the lay was over my head ,each sheet a bit larger then the next.The next day I sanded and laid one more sheet of glass, then the next day sanded and applyed the 105 resin with some 610 fairing filler added till it was nice and thick. Th repair area was prettysmooth and I applied a thin fairing coat. Today I sanded that smooth ( The 410 is real easy to sand) And painted it with Unepoxy Black bottom paint. You cant tell it was damaged, and it has a good soild ring like the rest of the hull. I have learned several things from this repair. 1. Keep trailer rollers adjusted and do not rely on the standard three rollers on the hull. I would have put the two extras on from day 1 14 years ago If I could have forseen this repair. 2 I learned about the differences between poly resin and epoxy. The poly resins are good above the water line for a none structual repair but the epoxys are better below the water line. You have to paint over the epoxys as special procedures are needed for re gel coating with poly gel coat. 3. I would have been blowing air (gently)into the hull the rest of this summer. The vaccum pump worked like a champ. 4. the West Systems epoxy worked just as it was supposed to. I will be back on the water this weekend after 3 weeks off in the middle of summer! My Web page with some Chesapeake Bay Whalering (url)http://trotliner.tripod.com/index.html(/url)
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 07-25-2002 11:07 PM ET (US) I will try my web site again trying to get the link to work http://trotliner.tripod.com/index.html
jimh	posted 07-26-2002 04:52 AM ET (US) Thanks for posting this nice account of your repair experience. That WEST epoxy seems to work well. Over in Maine they're gluing together a huge 150-foot wooden cold-molded sailboat with WEST epoxy. If they make multi-million dollar custom yachts with it, it is probably good stuff.
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 07-26-2002 08:54 PM ET (US) I had seen the West System products in boat stores for years.I bought a qt of Evercoat Marine resin, 27 filler and gel coat to do this repair . Then I got to studying the West stuff. I just did not understand what it was and what you needed and it seemed real expensive. Basicly there is one resin (105) and three or four hardeners from fast to slow for the tempurture you are working at. Then there are several fillers to add strenght or thickness to the resin for laying glass over your head or bedding hardware.And two fillers to make up fairing compounds. They also sell regulated pumps that go on the cans for about 9 dollars extra. They give a precise amount of resin to hardener on either a 5-1 ratio or a 3-1 ratio.(look at the pumps to see different hardners have different ratios) and they are calibrated for size A B and C cans ( I bought the smallest size A thats for a quart of 105 resin) Amazingly the pumps can stay on the cans for years..when you need some epoxy just push each pump one stroke for a minimun amount.(pumps can lose prime over a real long time they say so reprime.its like one stroke of the pump)I tried this stuff on several things also at work as tests and it is really strong! It will be real handy around the house for all kinds of repairs. West System epoxy Can be seen at this page http://www.westsystem.com
JeffA	posted 07-27-2002 03:05 PM ET (US) I think I may some water in my hull. Can you provide me with some more details for vaccumning the water out of the hull, such as the equipment you used etc. Also, once you evacuate the water, can you patch up the little hole and forget about; I was curious if the foam keeps rotting. I would like to get my Newport painted later this fall, and I would like to make sure I get all the water out first. Please reply back. Thanks, Jeff
JFM	posted 07-27-2002 09:26 PM ET (US) TCE, did you have to use the glass cloth for the repair? Or could you have just used the 105, 205 and 410 to fill in the void. I'm about to make the same repair on a smaller scale and was going with 206 without the cloth. My repair is from wear not damage. Thanks, Jay
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 07-27-2002 11:08 PM ET (US) The vaccum pump is a standard 3 cfm pump. Ac workers use these pumps to service auto and home AC systems.Try rental stores or maybe a AC business could rent you one knowing you are a boater. I attached a in line bottle from a "Mighty Vac" hand held vaccum pump designed to bleed brakes ect. You could rig up anything with two air tight tubes into it. Now in AC work you pull at least a 27 inch vaccum to draw out moisture by boiling it off, I doubt that I got that much..maybe 5 to 10 inches..a vaccum for sure as you can tell when you remove the cap to pour the water out of the bottle but not 27 -29 inches.((vaccum). I passed as I said the needle thru a 'Cajan Meat Injector " needle..Its a big syringe mad to inject spices into turkeys for deep frying..It has two holes on the end and I passed it thru a piece of duct tape to seal it . there is a similar procedure called "vaccum bagging" A piece of plastic is taped to the hull and a vacuum cup is applied so a vaccum is drawn across a large area..( See West Systems Page above link). I passed it into the hull and when it went deep I could draw nothing..just above the surface of the hull glass it drew water out. I used West Systems FG tape and some Evercoat cloth cut into increasingly larger pieces..6 pieces of glass cloth layed up for the repair, plus as I said I shot a injector of West Systems 105 with some 406 filler into the drilled holes that I placed to drain the water. A couple of 1/8 inch holes are no problem to your hull, and can be fixed by a shot of West systems and a wooden meat skewer as I did. See my picture of the repair with the Cajen Meat needle in place. the tube goes to the vaccum pump. http://trotliner.tripod.com/pump.jpg
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 07-27-2002 11:13 PM ET (US) I gusee Tripod wont let apicture alone be put up.. try this http://trotliner.tripod.com/bw.html
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 07-27-2002 11:43 PM ET (US) its 1145Pm and I just heard that the 9 miners in Pa trapped since Wed are alive..Thank God! My troubles with my boat are truly small compared to there situation.