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Author Topic:   1996 225v-x Saltwater Series trouble...
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-04-2002 03:45 PM ET (US)   Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler   Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler  
Well, Mechanic #2 is looking at my motor. They can't figure out what is wrong. Symptoms: The motor starts fine and idles great. When you get up on plane the boat runs fine for about 30 seconds then it seems to want more gas. It sounds like a lawnmower engine getting ready to run out of fuel. If you pump the primer ball the boat runs great for a few minutes than the problem returns. Top RPMs 5k when it should be closer to 6k. I replaced the fuel line from the tank to the motor. New bulb. New anti syphon valve. New filters. Twin Cities has had the boat since last Friday and they have no clue. They are "talking with Yamaha" to try to figure out what is wrong. Any ideas?~mw
skred posted 09-04-2002 03:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for skred  Send Email to skred     
Another post mentioned a perforated fuel pump diaphragm as a possibility....
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-04-2002 04:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Just got done reading that post. Sounds like a similar problem. We will see what Yam has to say. Thanks skred.~mw
Capt_Tidy posted 09-04-2002 05:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
My old 235 did this during work the other day... I was constantly pumping the bulb, slowing down, letting it idle, etc.. the engine was starving yet the filters, air vents, lines, switch and pump are all clean and/or new... nothing obvious.

As a temp fix and since I need to run hard for four more days... and until I could get the boat to my yard to find the real problem... I bolted on a aux pump after the filter and removed the bulb all together...

The engine runs strong with more than enough fuel pressure... and I don't have to prime... simply hit the primer switch.

I don't know why we don't all have aux fuel pumps... I guessed at the size of pump (I had two off my perkins diesel which were explosion proof).

Seems like a natural solution to a lot of fuel problems...

lhg posted 09-04-2002 06:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Not that I'm wishing anybody bad luck, but it's refreshing to see, on this site, that engines other than Mercury Optimax's & Ficht's have problems!

Finding competent mechanics is the real issue.

Capt_Tidy posted 09-04-2002 06:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
Finding a mechansic is easy...

Finding one who doesn't stop off and have breakfast on your dime on the way down to your boat at $75/hour is the problem. I had a guy try and convince me that it took over an hour to drive less than one mile last year! I had called his shop to confirm my appointment since he was late and was told he left early for my boat... I took great great pleasure in firing him on the spot.\ (after he had unpacked and carried all his tools down the dock).

Sounds like we need a list of approved mechanics...

MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-05-2002 08:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
I was told last night that it looks to be electrical. The computer discovered a short somewhere. We are waiting for Yam to get back with the code definitions.~mw
Capt_Tidy posted 09-05-2002 12:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
Don't you just love the need for a computer....

So why don't we just install a voice activiated chip and on-board/engine diagnostics chip with a set menu and have the stupid engine tell us whats wrong... how hard could it be.

"Mr. MW, coil No. 1 has reduced output, fuel system check, compression check, oil pump check, fuel pump check, etc etc..."

Whose working for who here?

With my luck and love to swamped the odd kayak, all I will here is "Capt_Tidy, step away from the wheel, step away from the wheel". If you could make it sound like my wife I'd really feel at home!

MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-05-2002 12:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Funny but true!
OutrageMan posted 09-05-2002 02:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for OutrageMan  Send Email to OutrageMan     
Actually, the new Mercury outboards and inboards with SmartCraft, have nearly this feature.

Using System View (a 5" monochrome LCD) you can monitor over 60 different engine items. Also, if something goes bad, it will inform you...without the voice though.


Capt_Tidy posted 09-05-2002 02:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
Wow... that is cool.

Can you actually have the screen on-board while it's running? And how much would it cost.

I must have missed something in the paper work at my local dealer.

Capt_Tidy posted 09-05-2002 03:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
here's a quickie on the SmartCraft for the 250XS...

"All OptiMax 250XS models are equipped with the Mercury-exclusive Propulsion Control Module (PCM) 555 computer. The most powerful marine engine microprocessor ever designed enables synchronized spark plug firing. This ability to optimize fuel, spark timing and knock control independently for each cylinder enhances engine running quality and performance.

The processor also operates an electronic multipoint lubrication system. The reliable system delivers precise amounts of oil where and when it’s needed.

The PCM 555 also drives the exclusive Engine GuardianTM System. Engine Guardian monitors engine functions to forewarn of possible problems that could lead to engine damage. This “smart” technology not only detects and alerts the boater of an engine problem, it processes the data and reduces power to a maximum, safe level that allows the boater to continue operation. Engine Guardian also has the ability to proactively help prevent engine overheating by sensing not only engine temperature but cooling water pressure as well. By sensing low water pressure, the system can provide an advanced warning to the PCM 555 control module, which then reduces engine power before the engine temperature begins to rise.

The SmartCraftTM Control Area Network (CAN), a network of sensors and actuators that proactively monitor and control engine functions, enables the PCM 555 microprocessor to provide real-time engine function data to the SmartCraftTM System Monitor and accessory System Gauges. The SC1000 System Monitor and accessory System Tachometer calculate fuel flow and range. Additionally, both drive optional single-function analog style System Link gauges. The 60-amp, belt-driven automotive style alternator, capable of producing up to 44-amps at only 1000 rpm, is the most powerful in its class. The increased charging capacity makes running a variety of electronic accessories worry-free.

The OptiMax 250XS comes standard with the SC1000 System Monitor and hardware that use a single data cable to connect an assortment of SmartCraft System

gauges for both single and multi-engine applications. In addition, the optional SmartCraft System Speedometer accepts data from National Marine Electronics Association (NMEA) GPS connections for read-out of highly accurate boat speeds...."

Cool stuff.

MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-06-2002 10:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
They claim it is fixed. Bad spark plug wire (it was running on 5 cylinders), plus bad ignition switch. I got the dreaded responce (it was time comsuming). This should be a fun bill!~mw
Capt_Tidy posted 09-06-2002 02:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
A fuel problem ended up being electrical? Why did squeezing the bulb help then? Weird.
skibis88 posted 09-06-2002 02:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for skibis88  Send Email to skibis88     
I have been cautioned by one Yamaha dealer about the oxygen sensors getting clogged with oil. I have read that each sensor has a heater to keep them clean.
JFM posted 09-06-2002 03:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
I hope the bill isn't too much to stop your name the boat contest:)
Regards, Jay
John from Madison CT posted 09-08-2002 07:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for John from Madison CT  Send Email to John from Madison CT     

Keep us posted on exactly what the problem was. I like to learn from them.

When mechanics claim 2 problems at the same time, you've got to wonder.

Outboards are fun, but they can have there problems. Just yesterday I went with another boat offshore fishing south of Montauk,NY. We were as far out to see as 32 miles. We travelled in a team to minimize risk.
Well after 160 miles of travelling all day, my buddies Yamaha 200hp OB decides to overheat. Ughh, I had to tow him for several miles, but the motor then ran fine.

John from Madison, CT

MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-09-2002 09:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Ok, now I am pissed. They had my boat for a week. Claimed it was finally fixed on Friday. I payed them $1,244 for a new start switch an a spark plug wire. I take the boat up north for a weekend of fabulous boating around Door County, AND THE DARN THING STILL RUNS LIKE CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pumping the primer bulb underway still rectifies the problem. If Twin Cities doesn't give me a good answer this morning I am going to start bashing them on this site!~mw
Jerry Townsend posted 09-09-2002 10:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
MW - WOW!!! Let's see, $5 for the spark plug wire, $35 for the new switch and 30 minutes - well say an hour (at $75/hr) to install. That leaves $1129 for what ?? - consultation, conjecturing, evaluating - and oh, yes coffee - at your expense. Hmmm - $1129 at $75/hr suggests something like 15 hours - and oh yes, there are the potty breaks. But most importantly, they did not correct your problem and then they lied to you, saying they had fixed your problem.

As someone pointed out - your problem is fuel related and is not, by definition, electrical!

I would be quite burned and irrate with your "dealer/mechanic"! Hope they are decent and do right to you. --- Jerry/Idaho

David Ratusnik posted 09-09-2002 05:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Strikes me as a leak in the fuel line. Bulb, ok "you" fixed it?? Somewhere else along the way. You're not sucking gas-- go back over the line. .03 David
David Ratusnik posted 09-09-2002 05:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
What kind of primer bulb did you put in the line? Original equip or something else?? Double clamp along the line? David
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-10-2002 09:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
IT IS FIXED!!!!!!!! They found a piece of epoxy that broke away from a fuel line at the connection to the carborator. It was acting as a valve, closing when fuel flow was increased and opening when decreased. This boat runs great now. Ran it for two hours (in the dark) last night and no problems. It is amazing what an extra cylinder will do. They said that it came that way from the factory. Probably the reason the previous owner dumped it. I am fired up!! Thanks all for your advise. ~mw
bdb posted 09-10-2002 09:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for bdb  Send Email to bdb     

What about all the other stuff they did, and the resulting cost?

Harpoon Harry, suspicious

MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-10-2002 10:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Well, I got a new fuel line form tank back, new start switch and keys, new spark plug wire all for the bargain basement price of $1,244!!! They claimed that the problem was a tough one to find and that they proceeded as they should. What can I say. They know I am not happy but o'well. Live and learn. You guys will get it next!~mw
Capt_Tidy posted 09-10-2002 01:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
So the lesson here is to...

1) stick to your guns when you think you have a fuel problem
2) simply start replacing lines etc.. and logically go throught the system, always starting at the bulb.
3) ??? Somehow, at shop rates, I feel they should have found the problem pronto... like in an hour or two and only replace what needed replacing... it takes about 2 minutes to figure out a cyluinder is not working, two minutes to lesson and figure it's fuel, another couple of minutes to replace/check lines. Else maybe all these so called repair guys should be $10/hour like the rest of the uneducated work (me includied) and who are guessing. What wrong with expecting value.

Next time have them sign your contract!

Capt_Tidy posted 09-10-2002 01:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Capt_Tidy  Send Email to Capt_Tidy     
Sorry... that two minutes to LISTEN... something most shops at $75/hour don't do... but they sure can add.
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 09-10-2002 03:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Let's put this thread to rest. It brings back bad memories.~mw

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