Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
|Author||Topic: Bottom Paint|
posted 09-25-2002 03:58 PM ET (US)
I have a new Montauk that I keep at a dock in the Milwaukee river. It looks like I will have to get the bottom painted. Would appreciate any answers to these questions; 1) the dealer told me it would cost around $800.00 to paint bottom, which seem very high. 2) He also advised that he can paint in a white color that will mostly blend in with the hull color 3) He said that the boat will still get some slime on it. If I have to get it painted to keep in the water, so be it. The Milwaukee river must be very dirty, as I have left boats in the water throughout the great lakes and have never seen the amount of algae I have gotten on my boat. Would a great "wax" give me some protection if I was willing to take out of the water and wash every month or so?
posted 09-25-2002 05:21 PM ET (US)
I can help with # 1,
If you paint it do it your self, you will get out for about 50 bucks in paint. $800.00 is highway robery
posted 09-25-2002 08:23 PM ET (US)
I had a 23'Chris Craft re-bottom painted 4 years ago. Yours needs to etched just right, primed and painted- needs to be done right the first time. My cost on the 23'er was $400. Your dealer is going to charge what he is going to charge- like a car dealer doing service work. Go elsewhere- find a guy who has done bottom jobs before as a side light. You'll pay 50% less than at the dealer. .03 David
posted 09-25-2002 08:57 PM ET (US)
I found the Bottom Coating question very confusing. Some coatings are for boats in the water all the time, some aren't. Some have EPA requirmemts. I settled on Copperpoxy. It's good about any application. see copperpoxy.com
posted 09-25-2002 09:13 PM ET (US)
I have mine painted white with Interlux 498 with Biolux for slime. I keep it in the Black River at South Haven, MI. It is a high fouling river. I am switching to black Micron Extra next spring as the white turns brown after several days in the water. I had to use Muriatic acid last week when I pulled it out to turn it white again.. very messy. My friends boat with the black Micron Extra pulled out very clean. Clean black sure looks better than dirty white. At the moment when sitting on the trailer with the white restored it looks awsome... But that's about all its worth if you keep it on the trailer..
posted 09-25-2002 10:11 PM ET (US)
cj- I don't get it. Why are you keeping a 17', new Whaler in the water. Dirty water. Point, the boat is easy to handle from the trailer. You've got a virgin boat-- trailer or lift it out of the slime. Forget the bottom paint and $$'s. .03 David
posted 09-25-2002 10:15 PM ET (US)
It seems as if our 11 foot friend hasn't had much experience with bottom paint, but I digress.
To put on a first application of bottom paint, the hull must first be sanded to "rough it up." Then to be done righ, an epoxy barrier coat must be applied to prevent blistering. Then depending on the mfg., the paint can be applied or a primer must first be put on.
This year I used Interlux CDC Micron. Never before have I had a bottom paint work so well. Almost nothing grew on it, and what did, slipped righ off once I got on plane. Some of the paint is above the water line, and showed very little fading.
If it makes you feel better, on my 28' Bertram, having the old paint stripped, a new waterline scribed, new barier coat and two coats of the CSC cost me almost $3200.
Not defending the dealer, but $800 seems worth it.
posted 09-25-2002 10:17 PM ET (US)
I forgot to mention that my boat is kept in the water on the Green Bay side of the Door Penninsula in Wisconsin.
And, about your wax question...no it will not work.
posted 09-26-2002 02:18 AM ET (US)
I used Interlux's sandless primer system under Micron with great results. I think epoxy barrier coat is overkill and not needed on a Whalers high quality gelcoat. Look at earlier posts on this topic to learn how to bottom paint it yourself. It's pretty easy, and you'll save about $700. I highly recommend ablative type paints since they wear away slowly and only need to be reapplied every year or so. Traditional epoxy based bottom paints build up and must be removed with lots of sanding and effort. Materials will run you about $100 including the primer, paint, rollers and drop cloths. Regarding your decision to keep the boat in the water, do it. I use mine twice as often, even though I live just 2 miles from my local ramp. I can go out fishing for an hour or two after work without the hassle of launching and landing. On the weekends, a slip allows me to avoid the parade of idiots and lack of parking at the boat ramp so I can get out fishing at first light.
posted 09-26-2002 10:34 AM ET (US)
Uh outrage man....he knows more than you. They have not sand etched boats in almost 10 years. You use a silver primer and then paint over it. $3200 for a 28' Bertie....no wonder you think $800 is good. I could have that Montauk done(right) for about $300.
If you have a trailer, just pull it once every couple weeks and On/off the bottom....takes 20 minutes and costs $1. I would never bottom paint if I had a trailer.
posted 09-26-2002 10:40 AM ET (US)
Sorry outrageman...that came out on paper kinda harsh:)
posted 09-26-2002 12:19 PM ET (US)
No worries, Bigshot. I rarely take things posted on the internet bad. I guess I sounded gruff too.
You are right about the sanding. I guess I wasn't clear about my situation with the Bertram. The bottom paint had been being applied for at least the last 20 years with no stripping. The bottom of the hull had been sanded with an epoxy coat applied. I had everything taken off, and brought back up...as it used to be done, becuase that is the way it had originally been done. Because of this, the labor was extremely expensive.
I also forgot to mention that the job included removin the old Imron water line stripe and re-painting a new one.
posted 09-26-2002 06:01 PM ET (US)
You are right I have bottem panted my whaler once. It had been done before and all it cost my was 50 bucks for the gallon of paint. I did not know that doing it for the first time was so involved. This is not the first time that I have learned something form this form!
posted 09-27-2002 09:12 AM ET (US)
I agree with OutrageMan on the choice of the Interlux Micron CSC. It works great and has the following benefits as well: 1. It retains its effectiveness once out of the water, even for the winter. Most paints are only good for 30 days out of the water. 2. It slowly degrades eliminating the need to sand in the future as paint build up will not occur.
If you do paint it yourself, getting the correct line will be the hardest part. Evberything else is just labor.
BigShot's idea of hauling the boat and using on / off every few weeks is also a great idea. If you think you will have the time every couple of weeks, I would give that a try for a while, at least for the end of this season.
posted 09-27-2002 10:24 AM ET (US)
I do not repaint my bottoms until they really need it. My paint on my Montauk is about 5 years old. I pull the boat every couple months, power wash it and touch up the chips and throw it back in. It stays nice and clean. Even the best and freshest paint will grow slime if the boat sits, frequent use and a little scrubbing goes a long way.
posted 09-27-2002 02:33 PM ET (US)
I had to comment on this one. Outrage Man is on the right track, plus Bertrams are top notch boats! Hey guys you don't put bottom paint directly on gelcoat. Also the no-sand primer from Interlux scares me, Interlux re-called it after millions in claims and are just comming out with the new improved version. Check out the bottom paint mfg's suggestions, I know most recommend a barrier coat to prevent osmosis. It's needed if you boat spends lots of time on the water, why not do it right the first time. The marinas I sell paint to charge any where from $ 80 - $120 per foot to do bottoms. Here's how it goes- the boat hull is washed & scrubbed, boat is lifted off the trailer and put on stands, mask off the waterline, do any repairs or fiberglass work, sand the entire bottom, prime with waterbarrier 2 or more coats as needed, apply 2-3 coats of bottom paint, put the boat back on the trailer, done. What would you charge when you have to pay overhead on your facility, labor, equipment, materials (bottom paint is very expensive), etc..? It's even worse if there is an old bottom that needs to be removed. I'm a do it yourselfer and understand wanting to save some money but not all marinas or repair shops are crooks. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Bigshot had a fantastic point though, once you have a good system it only requires minimal maintenace and more importantly save money. That $ 800.00 bucks doesn't sound so bad to me now.
My two cents,
posted 09-27-2002 03:08 PM ET (US)
$120/ft......do they use 10 or 14k gold in that paint?
posted 09-27-2002 04:32 PM ET (US)
$120/foot is common around here for the FIRST aplication of bottom paint. And that price varies depending on the paint selected. Subsequent re-coating is mor around $60-80/foot.
posted 09-27-2002 05:58 PM ET (US)
No gold, just copper or TBT (until the EOY).
posted 10-02-2002 08:07 PM ET (US)
Big Shot what do you mean by on/off?
If you attempt to do the bottom paint yourself how do you get it off the trailer? What kind of cradel do you put it on to get all of the bottom?
I have done the bottom paint on a number of sail boats but they have always been on cradels where you can screw down the pads to get to all the spots.
posted 10-02-2002 10:56 PM ET (US)
on/off is some nastey ass slime and water line remover.
stuffe is so strong you need a gas mask.
or it will make you gag. Trust my I learned the hard way. The stuff cost a lot of $$$
to, it is a rip off.
posted 10-03-2002 05:25 PM ET (US)
Want to thank everyone for your input. I have decided to pull my boat every now and then and wash off for this year. The reason I keep my boat in the water is that I have a slip 2 blocks from my house. At this point in my life I have little time to play and having a ready boat to go gives me much more water time. For someone not very handy with anything that can't be fixed with duct tape, I have had to rely on experts to help me out. I had a friend in Florida, who recently sold Whalers tell me that they charge $37 a foot for bottom painting. Again, thanks for the help - my next step is to join some whaler trips.
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