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  Norman Pins and Lifting Eyes Lessons Learned

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Author Topic:   Norman Pins and Lifting Eyes Lessons Learned
DaveNJ posted 09-27-2002 08:18 AM ET (US)   Profile for DaveNJ   Send Email to DaveNJ  
My experience with some old Whaler hardware:

Lifting Eyes and Bow Eye removal:
I first applied some PB Blaster penetrating fluid and let sit about 10 minutes.
I had a 5/8" steel rod about 48" long and wrapped some electrical tape around where the rod would contact the eye. I put the rod through the outside (chrome) eye. You don't want to move this eye, just hold it stable because it has 2 sharp points that dig into the hull so it keeps the eye always vertical. I then used one of the plastic coated handles from a 10" channel lock plier and put that through the inside eye. I turned counterclockwise and it came off pretty easy. With the 48" steel rod, it allowed me to do it myself. I also did this to remove the front bow eye. Home Depot sells these rods.

Norman Pins:
I tried several different tools to get these off and nothing seemed to work. I finally decided that I could not get the pin loose without some surface damage.
I first applied some PB Blaster penetrating fluid and let sit 10 minutes. I then took some 220 sandpaper and folded it up so it was about 1/8" thick. I wrapped this around the pin so the sandpaper would provide a grip and then used a vise grip. It has to be a very tight grip and near the ends of the pin. If it slides into the middle of the pin, of course it will loosen. I held the left side still and loosened the right side counterclockwise and it came loose.

These pieces on my 13' Whaler are from 1968 and probably had not been removed since then.

There were some scratches on the pin that I had to get out. I took the male ended pin to the drill press and wrapped the threaded end with some tape to protect the threads from the chuck. I chucked it up and got it spinning. I went through progressive sandpaper grits starting with 220, 320 wet sanding until 1000. Used a metal polish with the 1000. I probably will buff with some compound next, but this is not critical. It already gleams with the 1000 wet sand. I am going to get another threaded bolt from the hardware store for the female side of the pin and cut off the head of the bolt so I can chuck up and polish it the same way. It only took about 30 minutes start to finish to remove and polish up.

I hope this can help someone like me who is working on restoring a Boston Whaler to like new condition.
I have gained a lot from this forum by asking questions. I just wanted to share back.

Dave

Bigshot posted 09-27-2002 10:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Good info. My experience with norman pins is let them be. I can polish all I want but in a couple weeks it is brown again. I gave up years ago. If it was not holding anchor lines etc I would clear coat but it would last about an hour.
Samars posted 09-27-2002 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Samars  Send Email to Samars     

Dave,

Just curious, my 67, 13 bow eye is somewhat loose but only turns slightly from the inside. The eye (outside) is tight and vertical (must be the pins keeping her straight.

My question is, although there is some roughness on the outside repairs done by previous owner (father-in-law), how have you corrected these repairs?

DaveNJ posted 09-27-2002 03:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for DaveNJ  Send Email to DaveNJ     
Samars,
I have not done the repairs yet to the hull. I intend to repair the bow eye hole too. Mine has too much play like yours. Although I use epoxy on other projects and have experience with it, I planned on only using fiberglass to repair my Whaler. I will thicken the resin with chopped fibers, or some other thixotropic thickening fillers I have. I plan to clean out the hole very well, clean with acetone. With the hull right side up, I may use hard modelling clay to get the shape of the keel right underneath the keel hole and then transfer that shape to cover the hole so the glass does not run out when poured in from the topside This will hopefully mold a nice keel shape with little sanding or griding of the glass to shape after curing. After it has cured, I will carefully drill out a new hole for the eye (starting with small diameter drill bits and working up to the correct eye diameter) for a nice snug fit. Probably have to grind a bit to finish up with some White gelcoat on outside and teal blue on inside.
Good Luck!

Dave

hooter posted 09-28-2002 11:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for hooter    
Mebbe in da same camp as Biggie, but Ah GOT's t'ask: why in da world does anyone remove a norman pin? Even if you's goin' t're-gel or paint da deck, dat's what dey make maskin' tape for, isn't it? Ah'm serious.
simonmeridew posted 09-29-2002 12:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for simonmeridew  Send Email to simonmeridew     
DaveNJ:
I think you're doing too much to a repair that doesn't need it, and it will likely end up being detrimental when you're done.

The bow lifting pin assembly/mooring loop runs entirely through wood, with the exception of the skin of fiberglas on the inside and outside. If you remove the pin then fill the hole with fiberglas, then after it's hard try to drill a new hole, I can't imagine that you can freehand bore a hole in the middle of this resin/fiberglas, and not come out a different place 5 inches later. So the hole's gonna be part in fiberglas, part in wood, and what have you gained? Better off putting the pin slowly through a dry hole while buttering some thickened West System epoxy on the pin as you insert it.

This has worked superbly in my Montauk. See previous posts regarding lifting pins.

BTW, I'd keep acetone out of the hole; the wood will absorb some of it, and slowly outgas vapors which will retard/inhibit/prevent the polymerization of the resin.
JMHO
simonmeridew

maverick posted 09-29-2002 01:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Regarding coating Norman Pins with clearcoat, I have done so with excellent success. After polishing in drill as described above (which is right on target), I mixed up some automotive clearcoat and added some extra hardner to the mix. A year later, my NPins are as shiny now as the day I polished and dipped. These new clear resins are very good (expensive, though), but I had some left over from a car I painted. Mav
DaveNJ posted 09-29-2002 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for DaveNJ  Send Email to DaveNJ     
To answer some of the questions:

I wanted to remove the bow eye and bow norman pin because there was too much "play" in the holes. I just bought the boat 3 weeks ago and it is 34 years old. The outside of the bow eye hole and some inside was poorly repaired with GLU-Vit or some other epoxy. The norman pin wobbled badly too. How about putting in a waxed 1/8" in wet glassed bow hole to use as a pilot hole to bore out later? I too thought that it would be hard to drill and exit in the right spot on the other side. Putting in the waxed bow eye and trying to stuff wet fiberglass around it may not fill in the amount of voids I have deep in this hole. I will try the method with the rod as a pilot guide, hard clay keel mold underneath and report back in a few weeks how it worked.

simonmeridew posted 09-29-2002 05:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for simonmeridew  Send Email to simonmeridew     
DaveNJ:
You might try using an old aluminum arrow cut off the right size as a pilot hole maintainer. That shouldn't interfere with drilling it out. But keeping the arrow in the center of the hole while filling the rest of the hole with resin would be a challenge. You would probably end up "buttering" the epoxy in, which is where I ended up.

My Bow eye had been loose for some time and would turn around on its axis if forced. I was always worried that it would pull out while I was trailering the boat, since there is a lot of jossling around when trailering. I was also worried about water intrusion since water is always splashing around the bow eye.
Since I fixed it there is no movement whatsoever. That includes a 2000 mile round trip on my trailer to Cape Hatteras, and a number of trips to Mass. and Maine for striper fishing this summer.
In no way did I try to "stuff" thickened epoxy, but when I buttered the shaft,it really went in slick. I used the thickening agents that West System sells for that purpose.

Always more than one way of doing something.
simonmeridew

DaveNJ posted 09-29-2002 09:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for DaveNJ  Send Email to DaveNJ     
OK. I will try buttering the bolt if it worked that well for you. It will save a step by not having to drill out too. Might as well not try to invent the wheel if something worked well before. should make for tighter fit too by using the actual bolt as a hole mold.

thanks for your info.
Dave

Powergroove803 posted 02-17-2011 11:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Powergroove803  Send Email to Powergroove803     
[Unfortunately this is a duplicate posting. It is too bad that people start the same discussion in multiple places. This one is being closed off. Please do not start the same discussion in multiple places. Doing so only results in a dilution of the discussion and sometimes--as here--the discussion is thrown away and the thread abandoned. This thread was dormant for nine years, so it is not really a good idea to revive a thread that has been dormant for nine years. You cannot expect that the participants from nine years ago will come back to reply. Thread closed. --jimh]

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