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Author Topic:   Chart storage

bboeri posted 10-20-2002 07:32 PM ET (US)
I am getting things ready for the winter storage project list. One of the things about the Montauk (1988) console that bothers me is trying to use a chart while underway. Has anyone added a modification that allows you to use/store charts while underway? Looking for suggestions. Thanks.
Bob
jimp posted 10-20-2002 09:08 PM ET (US)
bboeri -
Not the perfect solution for when I had my Montauk, but I used to photo copy charts (8-1/2 x 11 inch paper) and put them in large zip-lock bags. When you reached the end of the sheet, you have to switch pages.
You can probably see the advantages and disadvantages right away. Most of my boating fits on one of the sheets. Believe it or not, I do the same thing for the Revenge 22.
JimP
triblet posted 10-21-2002 01:24 AM ET (US)
Nerd-engineer answer: Get a charting GPS.
Real world engineer answer: West Marine sells
a HUGE zip lock for charts. This then gets
folded and stored in a big Pelican, and
I use the charting GPS. ;-)
Chuck
dburton posted 10-21-2002 12:55 PM ET (US)
I have used one the plastic chart tubes sold by West Marine. I roll up the chart and paper clip it so that the area that I am cruising is showing. Depending on the scale of the chart the area showing is quite large. It slides under the straps that hold the lid to my electronics box on my 18’ Outrage. I can rotate the whole tube and see a large section of the chart.
You could use Velcro or other means to attach it to your console but that would make it harder to rotate the area that you are looking at.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=10931
Tom W Clark posted 10-21-2002 01:32 PM ET (US)
As one who really loves charts and believes in actually using them I say K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), words I live by.
I have owned two Montauks and an Outrage and live in the Pacific Northwest where it is often wet. In spite of this, charts can and are used quite easily.
The answer is to fold them up. When I was learning to fly an instructor made a point of showing me how to fold an aeronautical chart up so I could both manage it on my lap and still see what I needed to see.
The point he really impressed upon me was that the chart was there to serve me. I was not there to serve (and preserve) it. If it got wrinkled, stained or torn, so be it.
I adopted that philosophy on my boats as well. The chart is there to help you and is really just a piece of paper. They need to be updated regularly anyway so if they do not last a life time, so what?
My charts have coffee stains, fish blood, and wrinkles all over them. That is the fact of life in a small open boat. They can get wet and dry out and still be perfectly readable so don't worry if they get a little splash or rain fall on them.
Most charts come in many different scales so you should be able to have a given area displayed on a chart on top of your console folded so that the area you are running in is clearly visible and close at hand.
On my Whalers I usually stuffed the chart I was using at the time behind my fish finder on top of the console. They always seemed to slide down behind the fish finder and the windshield and stay there without every blowing out. When I needed it I simply grabbed it. The fact hat it was folded three or four times meant that it was much stiffer and easy to handle with one hand.
If there was a real down pour I just put them back in their usual storage place on board which on my boats was in the Igloo cooler in front of the console laying flat on top of the cutting board in there.
It drives me nuts to see boaters who are super anal about rolling their charts and keeping them pristine (and this from a guy who is about as anal as they come.) Use the chart. Draw lines and pictures on them. Make notes. Fold them up, flip them over, read all the little notes on them. There's a lot of information on a NOAA or Canadian Hydrographical Service chart and its there for you to use.
andygere posted 10-21-2002 01:46 PM ET (US)
I have a couple of these clear waterproof chart cases that I purchased to use on the deck of my sea kayak. One of them has made a permanent home on my Montauk. I like these because they allow you to display a good sized section of chart, and are stiff enough to let you view it even if the wind is blowing. While underway, it gets stuffed behind my electronics on top of the console.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=11963103&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1
Arch Autenreith posted 10-21-2002 02:09 PM ET (US)
When we were in Nova Scotia this summer one of the locals gave me a laminated 8.5 x 11 copy of the area from the chart.
I just had it sitting on the top of the consol with stuff piled on top GPS, hooks, leaders, sun-block, etc to keep it from blowing away when I wasn't using it. (It was perfect except for no color.)
When in Florida I just did what Tom did and folded up a regular-sized chart to a manageable size and stuffed it behind the waterproof box and FF. That was perfect also.
Taylor posted 10-21-2002 04:48 PM ET (US)
I have the Cort Clark memorial collection of rolled charts from Seattle to Skagway, and they were great... on a 50' Chris with a chart table the size of Texas. And now they have a permanent curl anyway, they are hard to use at home, much less at 35mph on a montauk.
I've been using a chart book, which contains reproductions of charts and a big note that says 'not to be used for navigation'. While they are not accurate enough for what I consider careful navigation, in my whaler I'm moving so quickly that I don't really have time to study the chart that carefully anyway.
My current deployment is in front of the windshield. (I usually run with my forward shelter up, so rain is less of an issue.) I use a couple of bungies down through the rod holders and up over the grab bar to hold the book in place flat against the plexiglass.
I think now that perhaps a spring clip and a folded chart in a plastic chart case might be better than the book/bungie, the wind really tears at the spiral binding of the book.
Drisney posted 10-21-2002 05:28 PM ET (US)
I use the Tom Clark method...except that I put the folded chart into a clear bag that I can read it through...Dave
dfmcintyre posted 10-22-2002 08:35 AM ET (US)
Ditto with Tom, with a slight varation. I use a chart book, in one of the large zipper chart bags, and usually leave it on the floor. I had mentally designed (prior to GPS...) a device that would hold the bag w/book. It was a piece of plastic, say 1/4" with one end heated up and bent to fit either over the top of the plexiglass windshield or over the grab rails. It would rest (and unfortunately cover the compass) along the top of the instrument panel.
Don
tully_mars posted 10-22-2002 09:07 AM ET (US)
One of the best ideas I have seen for chart storage on a boat was on an 1989 25' Outrage that I almost bought years ago (bought a 21' Outrage new instead). What that owner had done was run a piece of PVC 3" pipe through his console from port to starboard and had recessed screw in caps on either end. He could roll his charts up and store them watertight inside.
It is a great storage idea, but not the solution for underway. Though it is not safe to take "your eyes off the road" so might be better to stop and analyze where you are going.
Tully Mars
hauptjm posted 10-22-2002 12:15 PM ET (US)
Gotta go with Tom. If your chart's new and pretty, it's useless. I too fold mine to the area of interest. I do use a zippered see through chart bag, but just to keep it weighted down. If I need a chart, it's on my console.
Drisney posted 10-22-2002 04:14 PM ET (US)
I considered laminating the chart to the consol top....but too much stuff sits on top of it... plus only good if you always boat in the same place...Dave
Sammy posted 10-24-2002 09:02 AM ET (US)
I'm another one that's with Tom et al - charts are meant to be used and folding is the best way to use and store charts on a small boat.
When a new chart is added/replaced, first thing I do is fold it to useable size. Then I use a clear, wide (2"?) packaging tape on both sides of all the fold seams - then refold it to 'break it in'. The edges take the biggest beating (even if they are kept in ziploc bags) and this reinforcement adds some extra life to the chart.
A simple zippered nylon pouch/bag gives me onboard storage for about five charts and takes up almost no room. sammy
jimh posted 10-24-2002 01:18 PM ET (US)
Having a chart table area on a small boat is a universal problem. The layout of the REVENGE-WALK THROUGH is just about perfect in this regard. The sliding companionway hatch cover makes a great place to lay out a chart in the lee of the fixed windshield.
My philosphy on folding -vs- rolling: If I am going to use the chart over and over, I usually fold it as appropriate. If I am only going to use the chart a few days, I keep it rolled. A rolled chart has more "value" to another user. I also have this long term plan to use old charts as wallpaper in my "office" someday, so rolled charts look better.

phatwhaler posted 10-25-2002 06:08 PM ET (US)
Old edition and or old charts make good wrapping paper for the holidays!
phatwhaler out.
Capt_Tidy posted 10-25-2002 06:17 PM ET (US)
seriously - trible has it right.
Once you use a Gramin 188 gps chart plotter (or other) you'll tuck all those charts away.
Here in Newport Harbor, it even shows docks!

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Author	Topic: Chart storage
bboeri	posted 10-20-2002 07:32 PM ET (US) I am getting things ready for the winter storage project list. One of the things about the Montauk (1988) console that bothers me is trying to use a chart while underway. Has anyone added a modification that allows you to use/store charts while underway? Looking for suggestions. Thanks. Bob
jimp	posted 10-20-2002 09:08 PM ET (US) bboeri - Not the perfect solution for when I had my Montauk, but I used to photo copy charts (8-1/2 x 11 inch paper) and put them in large zip-lock bags. When you reached the end of the sheet, you have to switch pages. You can probably see the advantages and disadvantages right away. Most of my boating fits on one of the sheets. Believe it or not, I do the same thing for the Revenge 22. JimP
triblet	posted 10-21-2002 01:24 AM ET (US) Nerd-engineer answer: Get a charting GPS. Real world engineer answer: West Marine sells a HUGE zip lock for charts. This then gets folded and stored in a big Pelican, and I use the charting GPS. ;-) Chuck
dburton	posted 10-21-2002 12:55 PM ET (US) I have used one the plastic chart tubes sold by West Marine. I roll up the chart and paper clip it so that the area that I am cruising is showing. Depending on the scale of the chart the area showing is quite large. It slides under the straps that hold the lid to my electronics box on my 18’ Outrage. I can rotate the whole tube and see a large section of the chart. You could use Velcro or other means to attach it to your console but that would make it harder to rotate the area that you are looking at. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=10931
Tom W Clark	posted 10-21-2002 01:32 PM ET (US) As one who really loves charts and believes in actually using them I say K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), words I live by. I have owned two Montauks and an Outrage and live in the Pacific Northwest where it is often wet. In spite of this, charts can and are used quite easily. The answer is to fold them up. When I was learning to fly an instructor made a point of showing me how to fold an aeronautical chart up so I could both manage it on my lap and still see what I needed to see. The point he really impressed upon me was that the chart was there to serve me. I was not there to serve (and preserve) it. If it got wrinkled, stained or torn, so be it. I adopted that philosophy on my boats as well. The chart is there to help you and is really just a piece of paper. They need to be updated regularly anyway so if they do not last a life time, so what? My charts have coffee stains, fish blood, and wrinkles all over them. That is the fact of life in a small open boat. They can get wet and dry out and still be perfectly readable so don't worry if they get a little splash or rain fall on them. Most charts come in many different scales so you should be able to have a given area displayed on a chart on top of your console folded so that the area you are running in is clearly visible and close at hand. On my Whalers I usually stuffed the chart I was using at the time behind my fish finder on top of the console. They always seemed to slide down behind the fish finder and the windshield and stay there without every blowing out. When I needed it I simply grabbed it. The fact hat it was folded three or four times meant that it was much stiffer and easy to handle with one hand. If there was a real down pour I just put them back in their usual storage place on board which on my boats was in the Igloo cooler in front of the console laying flat on top of the cutting board in there. It drives me nuts to see boaters who are super anal about rolling their charts and keeping them pristine (and this from a guy who is about as anal as they come.) Use the chart. Draw lines and pictures on them. Make notes. Fold them up, flip them over, read all the little notes on them. There's a lot of information on a NOAA or Canadian Hydrographical Service chart and its there for you to use.
andygere	posted 10-21-2002 01:46 PM ET (US) I have a couple of these clear waterproof chart cases that I purchased to use on the deck of my sea kayak. One of them has made a permanent home on my Montauk. I like these because they allow you to display a good sized section of chart, and are stiff enough to let you view it even if the wind is blowing. While underway, it gets stuffed behind my electronics on top of the console. http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=11963103&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1
Arch Autenreith	posted 10-21-2002 02:09 PM ET (US) When we were in Nova Scotia this summer one of the locals gave me a laminated 8.5 x 11 copy of the area from the chart. I just had it sitting on the top of the consol with stuff piled on top GPS, hooks, leaders, sun-block, etc to keep it from blowing away when I wasn't using it. (It was perfect except for no color.) When in Florida I just did what Tom did and folded up a regular-sized chart to a manageable size and stuffed it behind the waterproof box and FF. That was perfect also.
Taylor	posted 10-21-2002 04:48 PM ET (US) I have the Cort Clark memorial collection of rolled charts from Seattle to Skagway, and they were great... on a 50' Chris with a chart table the size of Texas. And now they have a permanent curl anyway, they are hard to use at home, much less at 35mph on a montauk. I've been using a chart book, which contains reproductions of charts and a big note that says 'not to be used for navigation'. While they are not accurate enough for what I consider careful navigation, in my whaler I'm moving so quickly that I don't really have time to study the chart that carefully anyway. My current deployment is in front of the windshield. (I usually run with my forward shelter up, so rain is less of an issue.) I use a couple of bungies down through the rod holders and up over the grab bar to hold the book in place flat against the plexiglass. I think now that perhaps a spring clip and a folded chart in a plastic chart case might be better than the book/bungie, the wind really tears at the spiral binding of the book.
Drisney	posted 10-21-2002 05:28 PM ET (US) I use the Tom Clark method...except that I put the folded chart into a clear bag that I can read it through...Dave
dfmcintyre	posted 10-22-2002 08:35 AM ET (US) Ditto with Tom, with a slight varation. I use a chart book, in one of the large zipper chart bags, and usually leave it on the floor. I had mentally designed (prior to GPS...) a device that would hold the bag w/book. It was a piece of plastic, say 1/4" with one end heated up and bent to fit either over the top of the plexiglass windshield or over the grab rails. It would rest (and unfortunately cover the compass) along the top of the instrument panel. Don
tully_mars	posted 10-22-2002 09:07 AM ET (US) One of the best ideas I have seen for chart storage on a boat was on an 1989 25' Outrage that I almost bought years ago (bought a 21' Outrage new instead). What that owner had done was run a piece of PVC 3" pipe through his console from port to starboard and had recessed screw in caps on either end. He could roll his charts up and store them watertight inside. It is a great storage idea, but not the solution for underway. Though it is not safe to take "your eyes off the road" so might be better to stop and analyze where you are going. Tully Mars
hauptjm	posted 10-22-2002 12:15 PM ET (US) Gotta go with Tom. If your chart's new and pretty, it's useless. I too fold mine to the area of interest. I do use a zippered see through chart bag, but just to keep it weighted down. If I need a chart, it's on my console.
Drisney	posted 10-22-2002 04:14 PM ET (US) I considered laminating the chart to the consol top....but too much stuff sits on top of it... plus only good if you always boat in the same place...Dave
Sammy	posted 10-24-2002 09:02 AM ET (US) I'm another one that's with Tom et al - charts are meant to be used and folding is the best way to use and store charts on a small boat. When a new chart is added/replaced, first thing I do is fold it to useable size. Then I use a clear, wide (2"?) packaging tape on both sides of all the fold seams - then refold it to 'break it in'. The edges take the biggest beating (even if they are kept in ziploc bags) and this reinforcement adds some extra life to the chart. A simple zippered nylon pouch/bag gives me onboard storage for about five charts and takes up almost no room. sammy
jimh	posted 10-24-2002 01:18 PM ET (US) Having a chart table area on a small boat is a universal problem. The layout of the REVENGE-WALK THROUGH is just about perfect in this regard. The sliding companionway hatch cover makes a great place to lay out a chart in the lee of the fixed windshield. My philosphy on folding -vs- rolling: If I am going to use the chart over and over, I usually fold it as appropriate. If I am only going to use the chart a few days, I keep it rolled. A rolled chart has more "value" to another user. I also have this long term plan to use old charts as wallpaper in my "office" someday, so rolled charts look better.
phatwhaler	posted 10-25-2002 06:08 PM ET (US) Old edition and or old charts make good wrapping paper for the holidays! phatwhaler out.
Capt_Tidy	posted 10-25-2002 06:17 PM ET (US) seriously - trible has it right. Once you use a Gramin 188 gps chart plotter (or other) you'll tuck all those charts away. Here in Newport Harbor, it even shows docks!