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Author Topic:   Ice and Snow and Salt

Wayneman posted 01-22-2003 05:50 PM ET (US)
Hi all:
Some time ago I complained of my olf Nauset getting alot of ice in it because of faulty storage. Ice melt just melts it a little and then it freezes over again. Here in the Hudson Valley, it seems never to get above 20 degrees anymore. As much as I hate to do it, if I dumped a 100lb bag of salt in the stern what dammage would it do?
Buckda posted 01-22-2003 06:40 PM ET (US)
Hi Wayneman -
I grew up in Michigan and we have had a similar problem in the past with "another" brand of boat.
First, is there any possibility that you can put your boat inside for even a weekend? Running a space heater to get the ambient temperature inside a garage to hover above the freezing mark just might do the trick.
If you have a regular mechanic for your auto who is closed over the weekend - they might be willing to put it inside their heated shop to help you get rid of this problem.
If none of these is an option, besides the added weight of the ice, it is not really a huge concern in my mind in terms of hull damage. Ice DOES expand, but it expands in the path of least resistance, in this case, up. It should not be exerting enough pressure on the floor/sides to damage your boat unless it is allowed to repeatedly thaw and refreeze (expand and contract).
It sounds like you also have a drainage problem - putting 100 pounds of salt in the back will 1) add 100 pounds of weight to the trailer and 2)leave you with quite a corrosive mess - and if you have not solved the drainage issue, you'll still have the problem to deal with.
Do you have access to a hair dryer? :)
Option #4: Take a well-deserved vacation to the Florida Keys and bring your Nauset with you.
jimp posted 01-22-2003 07:28 PM ET (US)
Wayneman -
Not sure about the salt...
An option I used in my '82 Montauk in Kodiak several years ago (1990) was getting a hot water hose (run from the washing machine faucet) and getting rid of the ice.
I had been away for a while (2 months) and came home in November and found the boat with about 9" of solid ice in it - through the bilge, surrounding the battery box, aft cooler, etc. It was about 25F when I started my thawing out, took several hours, made a lot of ice outside the boat and in the driveway, but it removed all the ice. Then I properly covered the boat for the rest of the winter.
Hope it helps.
JimP
P.S. I like Buckda's Florida idea!
Wayneman posted 01-22-2003 08:05 PM ET (US)
Thx guys. And the Flor. idea is great because I am a travel agent by trade.
j_h_nimrod posted 01-23-2003 01:25 AM ET (US)
The high concentration of salt should not be a problem. Southern salt water boats frequently have pure salt dried on them with no overt damage. Granted metal corrosion is sped up, but if you rinse with fresh water soon it should be of little concern.
Now, I do not really think that putting 100lbs of salt in the boat is a good idea. It will have some melting effect, but it will not completely melt the ice. What it will do is melt localized water, this water/salt solution will work its way to the hull and form a liquid layer that will aid in the removal of large chunks of broken ice.
What I would do is liberally sprinkle the entire surface with about 10-20lbs of salt. Then drape a standard tarp, or two or three) over the entire boat with a small ceramic heater in a safe place under it. The salt will lower the freezing point while the heater raises the temperture. One main part of this method is to keep a plug in the bung (or it could already be plugged if you have inches of ice). If the salt water is allowed to drain out then it will do no good. After about 24 hours you should have a fairly large chunk of floating ice. Break this up (carefully!!!)and remove it in chunks. After all ice that can be removed is taken out rinse with fresh water (take the plug out this time). This fresh water will probably freeze again but the majority will be removed.
Just more rambling...JH
Florida15 posted 01-23-2003 12:32 PM ET (US)
Another method that might work - cover the boat with a tarp and run an outdoor extension cord to it. Plug in a trouble light with a 100 watt bulb to the extension cord and put it under the tarp. It will warm up pretty quickly under the tarp and the ice should melt before long.
Jay A posted 01-29-2003 10:40 PM ET (US)
I've had my Whaler out without it covered for about 8 years in a row the scupper would clog with leaves and ice would build up. never had a problem! DON'T put ice melt in there! If you have any woodwork it will dry it out,if your boat is on a trailer the salt will work it's way throughout and accelerate corrosion! That type of salt is very corrosive compared to seawater. And if you really want to prevent ice build-up, do what I ended up doing,just flip the boat upside down! ( remove engine of course.)
waterwal posted 01-30-2003 12:32 AM ET (US)
Though my garage is scarcely warmer than outside, I was able to get the ice in my Montauk to melt... I was in a similar situation where I had the cover off briefly in December before putting the boat in the garage when we got a big snow storm. The way things are, I never got the stuff out, and as of last weekend there was 4" of ice in the stern.
Last Sunday I spent a couple of hours pouring buckets of hot water in there until it all melted off and poured out of the drain hole. Before Sunday we had had a string of 20 minus degree days, and Sunday was a break from that at around 38, so I would say that the garage temp was about 35. Anyway, it took about 20 gallons of hot water and some poking at th eice to get the job done, but the boat is dry as a bone now.
That hose connect to the hot water would be awesome if you have it. I don't unfortuately. There's probably no major risk of the salt being in there, but I would think that's the kind of thing you want to minimize. There's a reason why people do a fresh water rinse when they can...

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Author	Topic: Ice and Snow and Salt
Wayneman	posted 01-22-2003 05:50 PM ET (US) Hi all: Some time ago I complained of my olf Nauset getting alot of ice in it because of faulty storage. Ice melt just melts it a little and then it freezes over again. Here in the Hudson Valley, it seems never to get above 20 degrees anymore. As much as I hate to do it, if I dumped a 100lb bag of salt in the stern what dammage would it do?
Buckda	posted 01-22-2003 06:40 PM ET (US) Hi Wayneman - I grew up in Michigan and we have had a similar problem in the past with "another" brand of boat. First, is there any possibility that you can put your boat inside for even a weekend? Running a space heater to get the ambient temperature inside a garage to hover above the freezing mark just might do the trick. If you have a regular mechanic for your auto who is closed over the weekend - they might be willing to put it inside their heated shop to help you get rid of this problem. If none of these is an option, besides the added weight of the ice, it is not really a huge concern in my mind in terms of hull damage. Ice DOES expand, but it expands in the path of least resistance, in this case, up. It should not be exerting enough pressure on the floor/sides to damage your boat unless it is allowed to repeatedly thaw and refreeze (expand and contract). It sounds like you also have a drainage problem - putting 100 pounds of salt in the back will 1) add 100 pounds of weight to the trailer and 2)leave you with quite a corrosive mess - and if you have not solved the drainage issue, you'll still have the problem to deal with. Do you have access to a hair dryer? :) Option #4: Take a well-deserved vacation to the Florida Keys and bring your Nauset with you.
jimp	posted 01-22-2003 07:28 PM ET (US) Wayneman - Not sure about the salt... An option I used in my '82 Montauk in Kodiak several years ago (1990) was getting a hot water hose (run from the washing machine faucet) and getting rid of the ice. I had been away for a while (2 months) and came home in November and found the boat with about 9" of solid ice in it - through the bilge, surrounding the battery box, aft cooler, etc. It was about 25F when I started my thawing out, took several hours, made a lot of ice outside the boat and in the driveway, but it removed all the ice. Then I properly covered the boat for the rest of the winter. Hope it helps. JimP P.S. I like Buckda's Florida idea!
Wayneman	posted 01-22-2003 08:05 PM ET (US) Thx guys. And the Flor. idea is great because I am a travel agent by trade.
j_h_nimrod	posted 01-23-2003 01:25 AM ET (US) The high concentration of salt should not be a problem. Southern salt water boats frequently have pure salt dried on them with no overt damage. Granted metal corrosion is sped up, but if you rinse with fresh water soon it should be of little concern. Now, I do not really think that putting 100lbs of salt in the boat is a good idea. It will have some melting effect, but it will not completely melt the ice. What it will do is melt localized water, this water/salt solution will work its way to the hull and form a liquid layer that will aid in the removal of large chunks of broken ice. What I would do is liberally sprinkle the entire surface with about 10-20lbs of salt. Then drape a standard tarp, or two or three) over the entire boat with a small ceramic heater in a safe place under it. The salt will lower the freezing point while the heater raises the temperture. One main part of this method is to keep a plug in the bung (or it could already be plugged if you have inches of ice). If the salt water is allowed to drain out then it will do no good. After about 24 hours you should have a fairly large chunk of floating ice. Break this up (carefully!!!)and remove it in chunks. After all ice that can be removed is taken out rinse with fresh water (take the plug out this time). This fresh water will probably freeze again but the majority will be removed. Just more rambling...JH
Florida15	posted 01-23-2003 12:32 PM ET (US) Another method that might work - cover the boat with a tarp and run an outdoor extension cord to it. Plug in a trouble light with a 100 watt bulb to the extension cord and put it under the tarp. It will warm up pretty quickly under the tarp and the ice should melt before long.
Jay A	posted 01-29-2003 10:40 PM ET (US) I've had my Whaler out without it covered for about 8 years in a row the scupper would clog with leaves and ice would build up. never had a problem! DON'T put ice melt in there! If you have any woodwork it will dry it out,if your boat is on a trailer the salt will work it's way throughout and accelerate corrosion! That type of salt is very corrosive compared to seawater. And if you really want to prevent ice build-up, do what I ended up doing,just flip the boat upside down! ( remove engine of course.)
waterwal	posted 01-30-2003 12:32 AM ET (US) Though my garage is scarcely warmer than outside, I was able to get the ice in my Montauk to melt... I was in a similar situation where I had the cover off briefly in December before putting the boat in the garage when we got a big snow storm. The way things are, I never got the stuff out, and as of last weekend there was 4" of ice in the stern. Last Sunday I spent a couple of hours pouring buckets of hot water in there until it all melted off and poured out of the drain hole. Before Sunday we had had a string of 20 minus degree days, and Sunday was a break from that at around 38, so I would say that the garage temp was about 35. Anyway, it took about 20 gallons of hot water and some poking at th eice to get the job done, but the boat is dry as a bone now. That hose connect to the hot water would be awesome if you have it. I don't unfortuately. There's probably no major risk of the salt being in there, but I would think that's the kind of thing you want to minimize. There's a reason why people do a fresh water rinse when they can...