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  remedy for rear well-is bilge pump the sole solution?

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Author Topic:   remedy for rear well-is bilge pump the sole solution?
rebel posted 02-28-2003 02:16 PM ET (US)   Profile for rebel   Send Email to rebel  
I recently traded my 17' Newport for a 22' Outrage. The Newport was designed so that any water coming over the stern while drifting would be contained in the motor well and drain overboard. The Outrage has a much wider motor cut-out and water that ships over the stern simply washes onboard and finds its way into the rear well. Since the rear well is quite large, this results in carrying alot of unnecessary water around. Obviously, the boat does not have a bilge pump installed in the well at this point. I am reluctant to do this simply because it seems that the pump would be forced to run very often. Unplugging the drain into the motor well helps, but does not empty the well completely. I am looking for some suggestions other than the obvious installation of a bilge pump in the well. I am thinking that using the well for a live well may work, but I could use some direction. If this has been addressed previously, please forgive me. Thanks.
witsendfl posted 02-28-2003 02:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for witsendfl  Send Email to witsendfl     
Can't HELP But where is the NEWPORT

witsendfl JimK

Bigshot posted 02-28-2003 02:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
The Newport(not that one) is in my driveway Jim :)

What about a plexiglass splash rail? Something a few inches tall that would keep the flow down, like a clear wall? You could even set it up so it is easily removable. If not get the Rule platinum 500gph bilge. it is small and has an automatic float switch that senses water, etc. I have the 1100gph and it "rules".

lhg posted 02-28-2003 04:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I believe you are stuck with the obvious solution. Later model(at least 1989 and later) 22's and 25's came factory equipped with a combo bilge/livewell system in the stern baitwell. It's a good system and works quite well for either function, but does not bring in raw water circulation. 99% of the time mine is set (there are two turn valves in the system) for simply getting water out of this well, via a through hull on the port side.

There is previous discussion on the details of the layout.

rebel posted 02-28-2003 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for rebel  Send Email to rebel     
Thanks, lhg. I will look for the thread.
rebel posted 02-28-2003 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for rebel  Send Email to rebel     
Thanks, lhg. I will look for the thread.
rebel posted 02-28-2003 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for rebel  Send Email to rebel     
Thanks, lhg. I will look for the thread.
jimh posted 03-02-2003 02:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I don't understand what is happening with your 22-OUTRAGE. Water that comes over the transom ought to be contained in the transom splash well. Drains in the transom splash well ought to provide a path for this water to return to the sea.

If you take a really big wave over the transom and flood the cockpit, then the water will accumulate in the rear cockpit and drain into the below deck compartment. I think this is what is happening to you.

Which style transom splash well do you have? On earlier 22-OUTRAGES the well was rather small and limited to the center part of the transom. On later models the well was expanded and the forward dam of the well runsh straight across the cockpit.

Compare the splash wells show in Cetacea Page 45. In photograph 45-04 the smaller well is shown; in 45-10 the larger well is seen.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage45.html

Barry posted 03-02-2003 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
What year is your 22-Outrage? According to the Boston Whaler Owner's Manual for 18 foot-25 foot Models (1985?), "A single transom splashwell drain has a ball check valve on the outside of the transom. The check valve helps reduce the inflow of water when backing down. The transom splashwell drain should be open at all times."

If you want to eliminate hauling around the water, either 1) leave the drain open and use a check valve, or 2) put a plug in and add a bilge pump.

Obviously the static trim of your boat will make a difference as to how easy you take water over the transom. Factors that affect the trim include:
the number and size of engine(s),
how the engine(s) is/are mounted (attached to the transom, jack plates, bracket),
the size fuel tank (77 or 129 gal), and
what else is in the back of the boat (battery(s), oil tank(s), seat(s), cooler(s), bait tank(s), person(s), etc.)


rebel posted 03-02-2003 07:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for rebel  Send Email to rebel     
My splashwell is the smaller version shown in 45-04. The problem is exactly as you describe. The waves come over the transom and around the edges of the small splash well. The water then drains from the deck into the below-deck well which is very large. A one way check valve from the below deck well into the splash well seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure that will solve the problem. In these situations the splashwell is often full of water in the process of draining as well.
Barry posted 03-02-2003 10:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
Regarding getting water in the cockpit, from the manual,
"The cockpit floor drains directly thru hull via the starboard aft floor sump. The fuel tank area drains to this sump.

The cockpit floor drain should be left open unless the optional bilge pump is installed. With the drain open, water will accumulate in the sump and tunnel, the level depending on power option and weight. Water from wash down or rain will stay below floor level because of hull buoyancy."

So, either leave the plug out and ignore it, or plug it and add a bilge pump.

lhg posted 03-03-2003 02:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
He's talking about the stern baitwell, not the floor sump, nor transom drains. Water on the floor, even from rain, can get down in there. It happens on my 25 all the time.

22's that have the 129 gallon gas tank do not have this baitwell.

Barry posted 03-03-2003 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
Since I have the 129 gallon gas tank and no fishwell I can't speak from experience. For the 22-Outrage with the 77 gallon tank I was under the impression that the cockpit drained to the sump and not the fishwell. After reading the manual closer I see that this is not the case.

According to the manual "The fishwell has two drains. The drain between the fishwell and splashwell has a check valve. It is intended to be left open to automatically drain the well of rain and wash down water when underway. This drain must be closed when keeping fish to avoid fouling the check valve. The second, though bottom drain, empties the well of fish foul water once underway."

So if the bottom fishwell drain is plugged it sounds like any (some?) water in the fishwell should drain to the splashwell via a one-way valve and then drain out the splashwell through another one-way valve.

Chap posted 03-03-2003 11:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chap  Send Email to Chap     
Hello,
rebel, I have the live well and the same inadequate splashwell design as yourself. Though, I must say it probably allows larger amounts of water to exit a hull in distress faster under power than the full across bulkhead design and is probably not as inadequate with a single screw.

With twin 120 Johnsons(heavy) from the same era, 1989, under certain circumstances, I not only take water from over the stern but also from the filled splashwell sloshing around. Some always enters the livewell, teak or no teak hatch cover. This is in addition to any water forced in through the unplugged bilge pumpless sump which squeezes its way between the screwed down deck cover and the upper well wall while someone crosses the eyes of a striped bass in the starboard stern corner. Then there is the ever present rain/washdown water to boot.

I have two drain tubes in there, one through the bottom of the hull and one out the stern splashwell without the factory checkvalve. Doesn't appear to have ever been installed. The check valves I've seen are basically Rabud ball scuppers located in the splashwell, just one for the stern livewell tube not one for the bottom of the splashwell, which in my boat is larger than all the other tubes and well below the waterline, thus allowing the splashwell to fill.

Currently, my livewell remains wet. I like the teak but may try to keep it drier. I might attempt to piano hinge the stern side, tighten up the wood(or go to non-skid starboard or find a later model glass hatch), add a countersunk gasket to keep everything flush on deck and install a nice counter sunk stainless flush ring eye thingamabob with finger under the deck that turns and provides pressure to the gasket. I'm out of breath.

You might also try a shelf like Kingfish installed out of teak. I invision it above the tubes but well below the deck, resting on the liner's "self funneling towards the tubes" interior contours. Sorry jimh.

For now I keep a hand pump in there with saturatable stuff like fenders and stripping baskets. I use the hand pump when my son is not on duty to pull the plug while under way or when I'm not bold, he likes the action.
Great general purpose inshore/offshore skiff.
Thanks
Chap

rebel posted 03-04-2003 06:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for rebel  Send Email to rebel     
Chap, Thank you. I like things simple, so I'm leaning towards the hand pump solution. I'll store water-impervious equipment in the baitwell and keep the teak cover. The positive qualities of this hull far outweigh any negatives. Nevertheless, I do wish the baitwell designer had introduced himself to the guys that designed the splashwell and the transom cut-out. I never understood the reason for the rear seat design: i.e., running from gunnel to gunnel and restricting access to the stern (I've removed mine). Maybe this was Whaler's easiest, albiet imperfect, solution to this design problem. I currently run a single 175. I will have to watch the weight issue carefully when it is time to repower. Again, THANK YOU. PS If you do install a different hatch and find it is successful, please post!

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