drain replacement complications - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  drain replacement complications

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   drain replacement complications

tgresla posted 05-27-2003 11:41 PM ET (US)
I am in the midst of replacing both the 3" splashwell drain and the 12" hull drain on my 13'. I started with the splashwell so if I screwed up (and I did) I could run to West marine for a new 3" brass drain. I cut the replacement drain so 1/4" was sticking out and sanded and deburred the cut surface. I then greased both inside radii of the flaring tool, put 5200 and an o-ring on each side, inserted the flaring tool and began to flare. The flaring tool required a tremendous amount of force during tightening. In fact I needed to take out the 3/8" drive socket and use a breaker bar which was a couple inches longer to get enough force. I felt the drain 'give' and tightened a few turns. I decided to back the nut off to check the flare and discovered the nut was hard to back off, it had cross threaded on the bolt of the flaring tool. Not only that the 'give' turned out to be the brass drain splitting. What went wrong? I suspect 1/4" may be too much drain to flare. I've read past threads on this subject and have not heard of such complications. How could anyone flaree a drain with a trailer ball?
jimh posted 05-27-2003 11:55 PM ET (US)
You might want to use something less tenacious than 3M-5200 as a sealant.
lhg posted 05-30-2003 06:02 PM ET (US)
I experienced the same problem, also having bought the $40 flaring tool.
I obtained "Sea Choice" brass tubes, and I don't think they are good as the "Moeller" brand. After splitting three of these, I gave up and took the boat to Twin Cities Marine. The $37 they charged for the job was fair, and well worth it.
First of all, they used a Moeller tube. Second, they only left 1/8" projecting. Thirdly, they had a better, much older, flaring set of dies than the brand new one I had. Finally, don't try to roll the flare completely over the o-ring. The flare should only be 90 degrees, with the o-ring clearly exposed.
glassman66 posted 06-03-2003 11:01 PM ET (US)
it helps to heat the end u want to crimp before u tightin the tool keeps it from spliting
alkar posted 06-03-2003 11:36 PM ET (US)
tgresla, I split the first tube I installed too. I assumed that I had caused the split by 1) failing to adequately lubricate the tube near the flare and 2) cutting the tube too long, but I may well be wrong.
I called Sue at Twin Cities and ordered more tube and additional O-rings. She sent the right stuff, as always, and provided good advice too. She said that the guys in her service department used the flaring tool to "start the roll" and then finished using a hammer to gently roll the edge over.
I followed Sue's advice and all worked well. (I also cut the tubes a bit shorter and lubricated them more thoroughly.) I covered the tube with a shop rag and gently struck the exposed lip to complete the roll.
I also agree with Jim. I used 4200. I agree with Larry too. If I were within driving distance of Twin Cities Marine I would have paid the $37 to have them do the job. Unfortunately, Oregon doesn't have a competent Whaler dealer anymore. I have to drive about 250 miles to find a real Whaler dealer, so I had to figure out how to do the job myself.
Thank goodness for Sue and the folks on this forum.
Dick posted 06-04-2003 12:00 AM ET (US)
Why go to the effort of installing the brass drain tubes. The new nylon/plastic are much easier to install and they won't rot out.
3M 4200 or Boat Life Lifecalk is the way to go on either.
Dick
Dick posted 06-04-2003 12:01 AM ET (US)
Why go to the effort of installing the brass drain tubes. The new nylon/plastic are much easier to install and they won't rot out.
3M 4200 or Boat Life Lifecalk is the way to go on either.
Dick
lhg posted 06-04-2003 12:47 PM ET (US)
On my drain tube, bow locker of 25 Outrage, the two surfaces, inner and outer, were not parallel. The brass tube had to be cut on an angle where it exited the hull. The crimp die, really designed for perpendicular installations on both ends, does not handle this situation well, and I assumed a plastic tube wouldn't either. It required a custom roll over job that only a brass tube could accomodate.
TomNMiami posted 06-06-2003 06:06 PM ET (US)
Dick,
Can you provide any additional information on the nylon/plastic tubes?
Thanks,
Tom
tomroe posted 06-07-2003 11:10 AM ET (US)
I just installed a nylon through hull drain tube in the front anchor locker of my 78 Outrage V-20. I got the tube from T&H Marine, they are on the internet. The installation was simple, the two pieces mate together and have a "barbed" type of end similar to a wire ty-rap. I bedded with sealant, put in the tubes, put a piece of threaded rod through with nuts and washers on each end, slowly and gently drew it tight. I let it sit until the sealant had cured and removed threaded rod. The only modification I had to do was drill out for the slightly larger (1 1/8) diameter.
Ken_B posted 06-07-2003 10:29 PM ET (US)
Replaced my tubes, flaired them over o-rings and sealed them with 3M 4000 sealant; hopefully the lack of the "adhesive" quality of 4200 will not make me regret the use of 4000 later...
tgresla posted 06-10-2003 08:54 PM ET (US)
Upon second try the flaring tool worked well. I can only assume that the first tube (from twin cities) may have been defective. Also the bolt that comes with the flaring tube is slightly too long (not enough threads) for flaring a 2 inch drain tube in the splashwell. The reason it took so much force the first time was I ran out of threads. When I used threaded rod the second time it worked as advertised
tgresla posted 06-10-2003 08:56 PM ET (US)
I also think 5200 is fine for this application. The flaring force is much larger than any adhesive resistance from the 5200

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: drain replacement complications
tgresla	posted 05-27-2003 11:41 PM ET (US) I am in the midst of replacing both the 3" splashwell drain and the 12" hull drain on my 13'. I started with the splashwell so if I screwed up (and I did) I could run to West marine for a new 3" brass drain. I cut the replacement drain so 1/4" was sticking out and sanded and deburred the cut surface. I then greased both inside radii of the flaring tool, put 5200 and an o-ring on each side, inserted the flaring tool and began to flare. The flaring tool required a tremendous amount of force during tightening. In fact I needed to take out the 3/8" drive socket and use a breaker bar which was a couple inches longer to get enough force. I felt the drain 'give' and tightened a few turns. I decided to back the nut off to check the flare and discovered the nut was hard to back off, it had cross threaded on the bolt of the flaring tool. Not only that the 'give' turned out to be the brass drain splitting. What went wrong? I suspect 1/4" may be too much drain to flare. I've read past threads on this subject and have not heard of such complications. How could anyone flaree a drain with a trailer ball?
jimh	posted 05-27-2003 11:55 PM ET (US) You might want to use something less tenacious than 3M-5200 as a sealant.
lhg	posted 05-30-2003 06:02 PM ET (US) I experienced the same problem, also having bought the $40 flaring tool. I obtained "Sea Choice" brass tubes, and I don't think they are good as the "Moeller" brand. After splitting three of these, I gave up and took the boat to Twin Cities Marine. The $37 they charged for the job was fair, and well worth it. First of all, they used a Moeller tube. Second, they only left 1/8" projecting. Thirdly, they had a better, much older, flaring set of dies than the brand new one I had. Finally, don't try to roll the flare completely over the o-ring. The flare should only be 90 degrees, with the o-ring clearly exposed.
glassman66	posted 06-03-2003 11:01 PM ET (US) it helps to heat the end u want to crimp before u tightin the tool keeps it from spliting
alkar	posted 06-03-2003 11:36 PM ET (US) tgresla, I split the first tube I installed too. I assumed that I had caused the split by 1) failing to adequately lubricate the tube near the flare and 2) cutting the tube too long, but I may well be wrong. I called Sue at Twin Cities and ordered more tube and additional O-rings. She sent the right stuff, as always, and provided good advice too. She said that the guys in her service department used the flaring tool to "start the roll" and then finished using a hammer to gently roll the edge over. I followed Sue's advice and all worked well. (I also cut the tubes a bit shorter and lubricated them more thoroughly.) I covered the tube with a shop rag and gently struck the exposed lip to complete the roll. I also agree with Jim. I used 4200. I agree with Larry too. If I were within driving distance of Twin Cities Marine I would have paid the $37 to have them do the job. Unfortunately, Oregon doesn't have a competent Whaler dealer anymore. I have to drive about 250 miles to find a real Whaler dealer, so I had to figure out how to do the job myself. Thank goodness for Sue and the folks on this forum.
Dick	posted 06-04-2003 12:00 AM ET (US) Why go to the effort of installing the brass drain tubes. The new nylon/plastic are much easier to install and they won't rot out. 3M 4200 or Boat Life Lifecalk is the way to go on either. Dick
Dick	posted 06-04-2003 12:01 AM ET (US) Why go to the effort of installing the brass drain tubes. The new nylon/plastic are much easier to install and they won't rot out. 3M 4200 or Boat Life Lifecalk is the way to go on either. Dick
lhg	posted 06-04-2003 12:47 PM ET (US) On my drain tube, bow locker of 25 Outrage, the two surfaces, inner and outer, were not parallel. The brass tube had to be cut on an angle where it exited the hull. The crimp die, really designed for perpendicular installations on both ends, does not handle this situation well, and I assumed a plastic tube wouldn't either. It required a custom roll over job that only a brass tube could accomodate.
TomNMiami	posted 06-06-2003 06:06 PM ET (US) Dick, Can you provide any additional information on the nylon/plastic tubes? Thanks, Tom
tomroe	posted 06-07-2003 11:10 AM ET (US) I just installed a nylon through hull drain tube in the front anchor locker of my 78 Outrage V-20. I got the tube from T&H Marine, they are on the internet. The installation was simple, the two pieces mate together and have a "barbed" type of end similar to a wire ty-rap. I bedded with sealant, put in the tubes, put a piece of threaded rod through with nuts and washers on each end, slowly and gently drew it tight. I let it sit until the sealant had cured and removed threaded rod. The only modification I had to do was drill out for the slightly larger (1 1/8) diameter.
Ken_B	posted 06-07-2003 10:29 PM ET (US) Replaced my tubes, flaired them over o-rings and sealed them with 3M 4000 sealant; hopefully the lack of the "adhesive" quality of 4200 will not make me regret the use of 4000 later...
tgresla	posted 06-10-2003 08:54 PM ET (US) Upon second try the flaring tool worked well. I can only assume that the first tube (from twin cities) may have been defective. Also the bolt that comes with the flaring tube is slightly too long (not enough threads) for flaring a 2 inch drain tube in the splashwell. The reason it took so much force the first time was I ran out of threads. When I used threaded rod the second time it worked as advertised
tgresla	posted 06-10-2003 08:56 PM ET (US) I also think 5200 is fine for this application. The flaring force is much larger than any adhesive resistance from the 5200