Urban legend ? Alchol separating from gas = engine rebuild on 2 cycle

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  Urban legend ? Alchol separating from gas = engine rebuild on 2 cycle

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Author Topic:   Urban legend ? Alchol separating from gas = engine rebuild on 2 cycle

bang4dabuck posted 06-29-2003 01:03 AM ET (US)
Guy tells me that alchol is some how fused to the gas. He got a hold of two bad batches of gas IN A ROW. Both times the alchol had seperated from gas/oil and he had to have his motor rebuilt twice one after the other. I asked if there was anyway he could have avoided that (shake his gas can up or maybe there are some sort of test strips). He said maybe if he had bought his gas at other stations those two fateful days. Tell me it ain't so and he is pulling my leg. If that happened to me I'd be up somebodies .... The boat I'm working on has an early 80's Merc that is in the process of being rebuilt and I'm questioning whether I should put anymore money into it, instead go to a 4 stroke. Any way I can put an oil pump on her ?
Dr T posted 06-29-2003 02:23 AM ET (US)
Anything that sounds too good to be true usually is. By corolary, any thing that sound too bad to be true usually is. Since this is the first time I have heard any mention of it, I suspect that your instinct that this is unadulterated BS is correct.
Alcohol will tend to absorb water that will make engines ping, but I cannot see how it would "separate" and cause problem. After all, don't unlimited fuel drag racers run on alcohol (HELP, Sal).
tds
Steve Leone posted 06-29-2003 03:18 AM ET (US)
There have been extensive posts about this problem. Alchohol is made with water. Alchohol will seperate from gas if left set. It does absorb water. The water will collect in the bottom of your tank (wher the pick-up is....). Water does not compress worth a damn. It can do serious damage to your internal engine. It affects both two and four stroke engines. Purchase a fuel/water seperator for about $30. Easy to install and dump the filter now and then. Steve
Dr T posted 06-29-2003 11:14 AM ET (US)
Thanks, Steve. I had assumed fresh gas and ignored the implications of letting it go stale.
bang4dabuck posted 06-30-2003 12:20 AM ET (US)
I'm not sure I explainedit correctly. He said basically that the alchol was not "bonded" and had seperated so that the engine was burning alchol without oil. He said his gas was fresh on both occasions and that the problem was the "bonding" process in the gasahol was not done properly at the refinery. 2 cycle oil will not adhere to alchol alone, but will attach to the gasahol. Does it still sound like bull ? Any pictures of a water/fuel seperator on an old whaler so I can get some ideas where to mount it ?
Steve Leone posted 06-30-2003 02:04 AM ET (US)
The seperator can be mounted in front of the splash well. Or , if you have a rear seat you can mount it to a seat frame. Make sure you use sealer on the stainless lags (Sikaflex). I wonder why castor bean oil will bond with alcohol? I guess becase it also derives from an organic source. Steve
Jamie 20 outrage posted 06-30-2003 02:11 AM ET (US)
I am down in the Virgin Islands and maybe because of this, the 30 dollar spin on filter is not adequate. Racor just reconfigured their diesel 500 filter to be legal and safe for gas. The model is 500MAM2 . Its expensive, but real cheap in the long run if your fuel is questionable. Your friends alcohol story sounds like he took some facts and embelished them incorrectly. As to where to mount it, anywhere out of the way on the transom is perfect. I put mine all the way to starboard.
NoviceWhaler posted 06-30-2003 12:40 PM ET (US)
You've been fed a line of BS. There is no "Bonding" process at the refinery. Ethanol is added to gas at a mixture of 5 to 10% by volume, and mixed as it is put into the tanker truck. Ethanol is soluble in gasoline, but water is not. What probably happened was that rain water got into either the tanks on the boat, the tanks at the gas station, or was in the tanker truck. The gas will float on top of the water which will cause a fuel pick-up in the bottom of the tank to suck up pure water. As stated previously, alcohol will mix with water, so there may be an alcohol smell associated with water in the bottom of a tank with gasahol on top.
NoviceWhaler
jameso posted 07-01-2003 09:12 AM ET (US)
You did not state the year or configuration of the engine. I would expect it is oil injected and he had contaminated (read that 'water) in the oil tank. An internal combustion engine WILL NOT run on water. I have tested this myself and it WILL NOT run! The second scenario would involve a rebuild of the engine, job was not done properly and the engine puked. Mechanics have a good story line in these cases. Yeah, I've tested that theory too.
Jim Armstrong

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Author	Topic: Urban legend ? Alchol separating from gas = engine rebuild on 2 cycle
bang4dabuck	posted 06-29-2003 01:03 AM ET (US) Guy tells me that alchol is some how fused to the gas. He got a hold of two bad batches of gas IN A ROW. Both times the alchol had seperated from gas/oil and he had to have his motor rebuilt twice one after the other. I asked if there was anyway he could have avoided that (shake his gas can up or maybe there are some sort of test strips). He said maybe if he had bought his gas at other stations those two fateful days. Tell me it ain't so and he is pulling my leg. If that happened to me I'd be up somebodies .... The boat I'm working on has an early 80's Merc that is in the process of being rebuilt and I'm questioning whether I should put anymore money into it, instead go to a 4 stroke. Any way I can put an oil pump on her ?
Dr T	posted 06-29-2003 02:23 AM ET (US) Anything that sounds too good to be true usually is. By corolary, any thing that sound too bad to be true usually is. Since this is the first time I have heard any mention of it, I suspect that your instinct that this is unadulterated BS is correct. Alcohol will tend to absorb water that will make engines ping, but I cannot see how it would "separate" and cause problem. After all, don't unlimited fuel drag racers run on alcohol (HELP, Sal). tds
Steve Leone	posted 06-29-2003 03:18 AM ET (US) There have been extensive posts about this problem. Alchohol is made with water. Alchohol will seperate from gas if left set. It does absorb water. The water will collect in the bottom of your tank (wher the pick-up is....). Water does not compress worth a damn. It can do serious damage to your internal engine. It affects both two and four stroke engines. Purchase a fuel/water seperator for about $30. Easy to install and dump the filter now and then. Steve
Dr T	posted 06-29-2003 11:14 AM ET (US) Thanks, Steve. I had assumed fresh gas and ignored the implications of letting it go stale.
bang4dabuck	posted 06-30-2003 12:20 AM ET (US) I'm not sure I explainedit correctly. He said basically that the alchol was not "bonded" and had seperated so that the engine was burning alchol without oil. He said his gas was fresh on both occasions and that the problem was the "bonding" process in the gasahol was not done properly at the refinery. 2 cycle oil will not adhere to alchol alone, but will attach to the gasahol. Does it still sound like bull ? Any pictures of a water/fuel seperator on an old whaler so I can get some ideas where to mount it ?
Steve Leone	posted 06-30-2003 02:04 AM ET (US) The seperator can be mounted in front of the splash well. Or , if you have a rear seat you can mount it to a seat frame. Make sure you use sealer on the stainless lags (Sikaflex). I wonder why castor bean oil will bond with alcohol? I guess becase it also derives from an organic source. Steve
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 06-30-2003 02:11 AM ET (US) I am down in the Virgin Islands and maybe because of this, the 30 dollar spin on filter is not adequate. Racor just reconfigured their diesel 500 filter to be legal and safe for gas. The model is 500MAM2 . Its expensive, but real cheap in the long run if your fuel is questionable. Your friends alcohol story sounds like he took some facts and embelished them incorrectly. As to where to mount it, anywhere out of the way on the transom is perfect. I put mine all the way to starboard.
NoviceWhaler	posted 06-30-2003 12:40 PM ET (US) You've been fed a line of BS. There is no "Bonding" process at the refinery. Ethanol is added to gas at a mixture of 5 to 10% by volume, and mixed as it is put into the tanker truck. Ethanol is soluble in gasoline, but water is not. What probably happened was that rain water got into either the tanks on the boat, the tanks at the gas station, or was in the tanker truck. The gas will float on top of the water which will cause a fuel pick-up in the bottom of the tank to suck up pure water. As stated previously, alcohol will mix with water, so there may be an alcohol smell associated with water in the bottom of a tank with gasahol on top. NoviceWhaler
jameso	posted 07-01-2003 09:12 AM ET (US) You did not state the year or configuration of the engine. I would expect it is oil injected and he had contaminated (read that 'water) in the oil tank. An internal combustion engine WILL NOT run on water. I have tested this myself and it WILL NOT run! The second scenario would involve a rebuild of the engine, job was not done properly and the engine puked. Mechanics have a good story line in these cases. Yeah, I've tested that theory too. Jim Armstrong