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Author Topic:   Lift eye replacement???

Chesapeake posted 08-22-2003 06:04 PM ET (US)
The lifting eyes on the transom AND the eye under the bow chock (blue hull boat) are a little rusted at the bases where they bolt through the hull.
On the bow underside, this is where the safety chain is attached. This area, just beneath, the eye also has a touch of gelcoat chipping.
I would have thought these things were brass or SS, but why the rust?
I'd like to remove them and either repair (sand and coat the rusted areas with epoxy) or replace. Those in the transom look straightforward. The one in the bow appears to bolt completely through the hull to a lifting eye that is located in the front storage compartment.
Can and should these be replaced? How to do it? Is there any tricks, trips or traps that I should be aware of?
Thanks you experts.
Bob
simonmeridew posted 08-22-2003 09:26 PM ET (US)
Hi Bob
Those thru hull bolts are likely bronze and won't rust but there may be rust generated from other nearby hardware e.g.: steel washers or even the safety chain, which will rust even if galvanized. If you take the eyes off be sure to replace any washers with stainless. The inner bow eye unscrews with a standard right hand thread; a couple of pipe wrenches or even iron pry bars inserted in the eyes and turned in the appropriate direction will do the trick. The outer eye has a little "t*t" on the underneath side which engages tee gelcoat and keeps the eye from turning as you tighten the inner eye; this can sort of gouge the gelcoat if the fitting is loose for any length of time depending on how the boat is moored or trailered. In the archives there are some good posts on repairing the bow eye fiberglas which is on the whole a very satisfying repair. I can fill you in on doing this repair if you want.
simonmeridew
Chesapeake posted 08-26-2003 01:47 PM ET (US)
Simon, On my '69 Nauset, I cannot see any washers on the underside of the bow eye (where the safety chain hooks) or inside the anchor locker where it connects through to another eyelet.
I would guess that it is possible they rusted away, but you'd think you'd see some residual. I was thinking of just getting some gelcoat repair paste and doing the best job I can with the eyelet in place. After your previous post, I was thinking that the little t*t bumps would ruin the new gelcoat you would have to install.
On the stern lifting eyes, also no washers on the outside of the hull, just a little rust stain.
Would appreciate your thoughts and advice.
Bob
SpeedBump posted 08-26-2003 03:45 PM ET (US)
I have the same situation w/ my NAusett as Chesapeake has. Minor but annoying rust stains under the outboard D rings on the transom. Doesn't look like there are any washers. was hoping to remove them this winter and replace w/ new to resolve the problem. I thought it may be caused by impurities in the original cast hardware that was used.
My bow Eye has a little wiggle to it and while the fiberglass is not chipped I wanted to remove it also and clean up the area and reseat. Is there and internal tube that the bolt slides through? Is a bedding material recommended?
Since the outside Eye can be under water depending on the conditions I put a little white caulk around the bow eye as a precaution to eliminate water intrusion to the Hull. I moored the boat in a cove for 6 months this year and was concerned about the water getting in and causing a water log situation.
I figured after I pulled the boat for the season I can easily clean off the caulk for a more permanent fix.
any comments on the internal bow tube/liner or casting materials for rear D rings?
Bigshot posted 08-26-2003 04:11 PM ET (US)
I believe the rust comes form the galvanized all thread that is used to connect the 2 eyes on each end of the hull. Even if SS the all thread can still show a little rust if wet. You might want to seal it good so the water does not penetate and cause rust.
simonmeridew posted 08-26-2003 07:11 PM ET (US)
Chesapeake
Maybe the rust comes from impurities in the alloy, as speedbump has said. An alloy is by definition a combination or mixture(not a compound) of several metallic elements chosen because of properties the resulting alloy has, that none of the separate ingredients exhibits by itself. Brass or bronze would probably have a small amount of iron in it, the alloy might be rust free relatively speaking, but the iron might be inclined over time to corrode, oxidize or rust, especially where electrical currents were available.
That being said, I would think that a little steel wool and a/o polishing compound, or oxalic acid might remove most rust stains from the fiberglass, then a little polish would bring back the shine. Try Naval Jelly or "Zud".
That loose pin and my fears about water intrusion, were what made me dive in to fix my bow fastener. I think a boat that spends a lot of time on a mooring(in my case, previous owner) with the constant pull, unload, pull, unload... will loosen the bow pin. When I got mine apart, I found the pin which is at least six inches long, goes through solid wood(perhaps laminated)but solid nonethe less, so slim likelihood of water intrusion into the hull. But wood rot....perhaps. The first year I had my montauk I tried the caulk approach, since I had an open tube handy and wasn't sure of the time the job would take to repair right. But the looseness of the pin defeated my confidence in caulk, so when I got back from the Outer Banks I tackled the pin. The West System epoxy really seals well I think, there is no movement in the pin now...after 3 years...so I have confidence in the repair technique.
simonmeridew
simonmeridew posted 08-26-2003 07:17 PM ET (US)
I happened to notice that there is a second thread dealing with this pin repair
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004689.html, the last post in it was Aug. 22, 03 if the link doesn't work.
Also a longer one about a year ago
simonmeridew
Chesapeake posted 08-28-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
Bigshot and Simon - you both mention sealing the affected hardware. Would you propose this with something permanent like epoxy or something temporary like paste wax?
Thanks,
Bob
simonmeridew posted 08-31-2003 07:03 AM ET (US)
Chesapeake
I don't think paste wax would work at all. As I recall I think I just smeared the excess epoxy around the base of the pin/gelcoat interface. That seemed to work just fine. You could also use something like 4200 after the pin was in place but I think it's overkill at this point.
simonmeridew

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Author	Topic: Lift eye replacement???
Chesapeake	posted 08-22-2003 06:04 PM ET (US) The lifting eyes on the transom AND the eye under the bow chock (blue hull boat) are a little rusted at the bases where they bolt through the hull. On the bow underside, this is where the safety chain is attached. This area, just beneath, the eye also has a touch of gelcoat chipping. I would have thought these things were brass or SS, but why the rust? I'd like to remove them and either repair (sand and coat the rusted areas with epoxy) or replace. Those in the transom look straightforward. The one in the bow appears to bolt completely through the hull to a lifting eye that is located in the front storage compartment. Can and should these be replaced? How to do it? Is there any tricks, trips or traps that I should be aware of? Thanks you experts. Bob
simonmeridew	posted 08-22-2003 09:26 PM ET (US) Hi Bob Those thru hull bolts are likely bronze and won't rust but there may be rust generated from other nearby hardware e.g.: steel washers or even the safety chain, which will rust even if galvanized. If you take the eyes off be sure to replace any washers with stainless. The inner bow eye unscrews with a standard right hand thread; a couple of pipe wrenches or even iron pry bars inserted in the eyes and turned in the appropriate direction will do the trick. The outer eye has a little "t*t" on the underneath side which engages tee gelcoat and keeps the eye from turning as you tighten the inner eye; this can sort of gouge the gelcoat if the fitting is loose for any length of time depending on how the boat is moored or trailered. In the archives there are some good posts on repairing the bow eye fiberglas which is on the whole a very satisfying repair. I can fill you in on doing this repair if you want. simonmeridew
Chesapeake	posted 08-26-2003 01:47 PM ET (US) Simon, On my '69 Nauset, I cannot see any washers on the underside of the bow eye (where the safety chain hooks) or inside the anchor locker where it connects through to another eyelet. I would guess that it is possible they rusted away, but you'd think you'd see some residual. I was thinking of just getting some gelcoat repair paste and doing the best job I can with the eyelet in place. After your previous post, I was thinking that the little t*t bumps would ruin the new gelcoat you would have to install. On the stern lifting eyes, also no washers on the outside of the hull, just a little rust stain. Would appreciate your thoughts and advice. Bob
SpeedBump	posted 08-26-2003 03:45 PM ET (US) I have the same situation w/ my NAusett as Chesapeake has. Minor but annoying rust stains under the outboard D rings on the transom. Doesn't look like there are any washers. was hoping to remove them this winter and replace w/ new to resolve the problem. I thought it may be caused by impurities in the original cast hardware that was used. My bow Eye has a little wiggle to it and while the fiberglass is not chipped I wanted to remove it also and clean up the area and reseat. Is there and internal tube that the bolt slides through? Is a bedding material recommended? Since the outside Eye can be under water depending on the conditions I put a little white caulk around the bow eye as a precaution to eliminate water intrusion to the Hull. I moored the boat in a cove for 6 months this year and was concerned about the water getting in and causing a water log situation. I figured after I pulled the boat for the season I can easily clean off the caulk for a more permanent fix. any comments on the internal bow tube/liner or casting materials for rear D rings?
Bigshot	posted 08-26-2003 04:11 PM ET (US) I believe the rust comes form the galvanized all thread that is used to connect the 2 eyes on each end of the hull. Even if SS the all thread can still show a little rust if wet. You might want to seal it good so the water does not penetate and cause rust.
simonmeridew	posted 08-26-2003 07:11 PM ET (US) Chesapeake Maybe the rust comes from impurities in the alloy, as speedbump has said. An alloy is by definition a combination or mixture(not a compound) of several metallic elements chosen because of properties the resulting alloy has, that none of the separate ingredients exhibits by itself. Brass or bronze would probably have a small amount of iron in it, the alloy might be rust free relatively speaking, but the iron might be inclined over time to corrode, oxidize or rust, especially where electrical currents were available. That being said, I would think that a little steel wool and a/o polishing compound, or oxalic acid might remove most rust stains from the fiberglass, then a little polish would bring back the shine. Try Naval Jelly or "Zud". That loose pin and my fears about water intrusion, were what made me dive in to fix my bow fastener. I think a boat that spends a lot of time on a mooring(in my case, previous owner) with the constant pull, unload, pull, unload... will loosen the bow pin. When I got mine apart, I found the pin which is at least six inches long, goes through solid wood(perhaps laminated)but solid nonethe less, so slim likelihood of water intrusion into the hull. But wood rot....perhaps. The first year I had my montauk I tried the caulk approach, since I had an open tube handy and wasn't sure of the time the job would take to repair right. But the looseness of the pin defeated my confidence in caulk, so when I got back from the Outer Banks I tackled the pin. The West System epoxy really seals well I think, there is no movement in the pin now...after 3 years...so I have confidence in the repair technique. simonmeridew
simonmeridew	posted 08-26-2003 07:17 PM ET (US) I happened to notice that there is a second thread dealing with this pin repair http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004689.html, the last post in it was Aug. 22, 03 if the link doesn't work. Also a longer one about a year ago simonmeridew
Chesapeake	posted 08-28-2003 03:34 PM ET (US) Bigshot and Simon - you both mention sealing the affected hardware. Would you propose this with something permanent like epoxy or something temporary like paste wax? Thanks, Bob
simonmeridew	posted 08-31-2003 07:03 AM ET (US) Chesapeake I don't think paste wax would work at all. As I recall I think I just smeared the excess epoxy around the base of the pin/gelcoat interface. That seemed to work just fine. You could also use something like 4200 after the pin was in place but I think it's overkill at this point. simonmeridew