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Author Topic:   Used Outrage 22 analysis - help wanted

mustang7nh posted 08-27-2003 06:51 PM ET (US)
I've just checked out a 1987 Outrage 22 to possibly buy. Two main problems appear to be that the boat sat in the guys yard for atleast a year with quite a few leaves and water sitting in it. I didn't see it but was told, my impression is that the plugs were out so it wasn't a total bird bath but that the bildge area on the starbard side was always holding water as the drain sat with the trailer bunk blocking it.
Question: does water sitting in this well ever create a problem of getting into the foam if there is no visible break in the gelcoat?
Second, and possibly more problematic, is the transom drain in the center under the engine has the outer 1/4 to 1/2 inch of brass tube missing. I couldn't get a great look (it was shaded by the engine). But what I did see was that the inner portion of the transom appeared white and to be "glassed" or coated with some veneer. It was not raw wood or exposed foam. Area around the thru hull appeared hard and did not flex at all.
Question: Is this most likely just a thru hull repair job or is it a case of probable water ingress into the transom itself?
Last, near the bow, on the inside where the deck forms that smooth curve up into the gunnels, I noticed a few 1/2 to 1 inch slits in the gel coat (not spider cracks or typical stress cracks). They don't look like anything external caused them but more like it just cracked from years in the sun.
Question: Is this anything other than a gel coat repair?

I love my Whalers and am always amazed to see some pretty rough looking neglected abused Whalers still motoring along. A testiment to their durability. I prefer to nurture my baby and keep it in tip top performance, but I wonder if sometimes I'm see the wear and tear that occurs and misinterprete it as structural hull failures when its nothing more than a TLC repair.
Thanks for your comments.
doobee posted 08-27-2003 10:02 PM ET (US)
Water will not get into foam by osmosis. There has to be a break in the skin. Standing water above the waterline is not likely to cause damage.
The transom drain. There may be some moisture intrusion into the transom wood. If there is, it falls into the same category as every other boat of that vintage. If there was any serious transom delamination , there would be visible signs of stress in the gelcoat. I would remove the tube, dry it out, epoxy it, and replace the tube.
The slits you describe are probably just air blisters in the gelcoat.
Jerry Townsend posted 08-27-2003 10:11 PM ET (US)
You might consider having a marine consultant (or what-ever their proper name is) look the boat over and give you his/her evaluation. There is the possibilities of not much damage or a lot of damage. ---- Jerry/Idaho
spenttherent posted 08-27-2003 10:24 PM ET (US)
mustang7nh,
I am in the process of doing an complete refurb on a 1973 Nauset and while I don't seem to have any thru hull transom problems I did have to replace the 1x4 anchor boards that run the length of the boat on the floor just under the glass. They had rotted from a couple of consoles being put in and taken out...
spenttherent
mustang7nh posted 08-28-2003 08:05 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the input. I've checked with a few marine surveyors in the past and I have not been very impressed in what they do on a small open boat.
Yes, some have a moisture meter but one guy says that there is sometimes residual moisture in the mfg process that the meter can pick up so you need to get a baseline for interpretation. Don't know if this is true or not, but in other words, moisture meters sound great but perhaps can give you false readings in a Whaler.
Other than that, they don't appear to be doing anything other than what I'm doing and I don't need it typed up for the 500 bucks they charge in the NE. My guess is that they prefer to survey large boats with many more systems, etc to inspect. In that case they are probably very much worth their costs.
I would bet that my fellow Whaler fans on CW give me a better virtual survey than most marine surveyors. In the future I plan to bring my digital camera and post pics for reference. I just wish I had it with me yesterday. Thanks again for everything and all your help.
Jerry Townsend posted 08-28-2003 10:22 AM ET (US)
Mustang - Wow - I didn't realize that a marine surveyor would charge $500 for that 'service'. I would certainly agree with you.
My only thought is the starboard bilge sump which, when full of water in the winter would freeze in the cold winters you have and hence expand. If the sides of the sump area are sloped outward, there should not be a problem - but if the sides were quite vertical, the expanding water/ice would result in relative large forces and cause some cracking which might be difficult to see. ---- Jerry/Idaho
pequotman posted 08-29-2003 11:39 AM ET (US)
tang;
Make sure to check all of the thru-hulls. I believe that there are eight in all and if they have not been replaced since 87 then they should be viewed as suspect. These thru-hulls are IMHO the most likely area for water intrusion. There is also one under the starboard aft viewport that links the top of the gas tank to the starboard bilge. good Luck!

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Author	Topic: Used Outrage 22 analysis - help wanted
mustang7nh	posted 08-27-2003 06:51 PM ET (US) I've just checked out a 1987 Outrage 22 to possibly buy. Two main problems appear to be that the boat sat in the guys yard for atleast a year with quite a few leaves and water sitting in it. I didn't see it but was told, my impression is that the plugs were out so it wasn't a total bird bath but that the bildge area on the starbard side was always holding water as the drain sat with the trailer bunk blocking it. Question: does water sitting in this well ever create a problem of getting into the foam if there is no visible break in the gelcoat? Second, and possibly more problematic, is the transom drain in the center under the engine has the outer 1/4 to 1/2 inch of brass tube missing. I couldn't get a great look (it was shaded by the engine). But what I did see was that the inner portion of the transom appeared white and to be "glassed" or coated with some veneer. It was not raw wood or exposed foam. Area around the thru hull appeared hard and did not flex at all. Question: Is this most likely just a thru hull repair job or is it a case of probable water ingress into the transom itself? Last, near the bow, on the inside where the deck forms that smooth curve up into the gunnels, I noticed a few 1/2 to 1 inch slits in the gel coat (not spider cracks or typical stress cracks). They don't look like anything external caused them but more like it just cracked from years in the sun. Question: Is this anything other than a gel coat repair? I love my Whalers and am always amazed to see some pretty rough looking neglected abused Whalers still motoring along. A testiment to their durability. I prefer to nurture my baby and keep it in tip top performance, but I wonder if sometimes I'm see the wear and tear that occurs and misinterprete it as structural hull failures when its nothing more than a TLC repair. Thanks for your comments.
doobee	posted 08-27-2003 10:02 PM ET (US) Water will not get into foam by osmosis. There has to be a break in the skin. Standing water above the waterline is not likely to cause damage. The transom drain. There may be some moisture intrusion into the transom wood. If there is, it falls into the same category as every other boat of that vintage. If there was any serious transom delamination , there would be visible signs of stress in the gelcoat. I would remove the tube, dry it out, epoxy it, and replace the tube. The slits you describe are probably just air blisters in the gelcoat.
Jerry Townsend	posted 08-27-2003 10:11 PM ET (US) You might consider having a marine consultant (or what-ever their proper name is) look the boat over and give you his/her evaluation. There is the possibilities of not much damage or a lot of damage. ---- Jerry/Idaho
spenttherent	posted 08-27-2003 10:24 PM ET (US) mustang7nh, I am in the process of doing an complete refurb on a 1973 Nauset and while I don't seem to have any thru hull transom problems I did have to replace the 1x4 anchor boards that run the length of the boat on the floor just under the glass. They had rotted from a couple of consoles being put in and taken out... spenttherent
mustang7nh	posted 08-28-2003 08:05 AM ET (US) Thanks for the input. I've checked with a few marine surveyors in the past and I have not been very impressed in what they do on a small open boat. Yes, some have a moisture meter but one guy says that there is sometimes residual moisture in the mfg process that the meter can pick up so you need to get a baseline for interpretation. Don't know if this is true or not, but in other words, moisture meters sound great but perhaps can give you false readings in a Whaler. Other than that, they don't appear to be doing anything other than what I'm doing and I don't need it typed up for the 500 bucks they charge in the NE. My guess is that they prefer to survey large boats with many more systems, etc to inspect. In that case they are probably very much worth their costs. I would bet that my fellow Whaler fans on CW give me a better virtual survey than most marine surveyors. In the future I plan to bring my digital camera and post pics for reference. I just wish I had it with me yesterday. Thanks again for everything and all your help.
Jerry Townsend	posted 08-28-2003 10:22 AM ET (US) Mustang - Wow - I didn't realize that a marine surveyor would charge $500 for that 'service'. I would certainly agree with you. My only thought is the starboard bilge sump which, when full of water in the winter would freeze in the cold winters you have and hence expand. If the sides of the sump area are sloped outward, there should not be a problem - but if the sides were quite vertical, the expanding water/ice would result in relative large forces and cause some cracking which might be difficult to see. ---- Jerry/Idaho
pequotman	posted 08-29-2003 11:39 AM ET (US) tang; Make sure to check all of the thru-hulls. I believe that there are eight in all and if they have not been replaced since 87 then they should be viewed as suspect. These thru-hulls are IMHO the most likely area for water intrusion. There is also one under the starboard aft viewport that links the top of the gas tank to the starboard bilge. good Luck!